Official TIDAL HIFI Streaming Issues Thread

[astrostar59]

The two machines that I listen to Tidal on are now both playing MASTER files properly, something that has not happened up until today. And I must say, the sound is really very good now. WOW, thank you Tidal !!!

 

I am not sure what they did, but now the playback settings that I have selected remain selected when a Master track is played, instead of reverting back to System Default settings which always resulted in just average audio.

 

On my non-MQA DAC playback is now showing at 96KHz instead of 44KHz, I think they have fixed MQA playback.

 

Tidal version is now: 2.1.3.226 (W:2.0.3--6) (NP:2.3.25)

 

My findings as well. I have dropped out of the head-fi thread posting my findings, too many angry folk saying it is garbage...

[bobbmd]

AudGuy: I updated yesterday afternoon BUT my version says 2.1.4 227 (W:2.0.3--6) (NP 2.3.25).And to post #774 I did not get that message when I updated what version did you upgrade to and then revert back to? I initially thought the SQ was suddenly harsh/different(MQA and non MQA) so I went to to A2+ and then ROON all was fine including upsampling to 24/192 and 3 white lights on ME2 for non MQA albums (on A2+ and I assume on ROON) and then went back to TIDAL desktop and the sound was pristine and NOW I have 3 white lights for non MQA albums which I never had before on the TIDAL desktop would only get one or two white lights so I assume the desktop is upsampling to 24/192 am I correct??.

[astrostar59]

AudGuy: I updated yesterday afternoon BUT my version says 2.1.4 227 (W:2.0.3--6) (NP 2.3.25).And to post #774 I did not get that message when I updated what version did you upgrade to and then revert back to? I initially thought the SQ was suddenly harsh/different(MQA and non MQA) so I went to to A2+ and then ROON all was fine including upsampling to 24/192 and 3 white lights on ME2 for non MQA albums (on A2+ and I assume on ROON) and then went back to TIDAL desktop and the sound was pristine and NOW I have 3 white lights for non MQA albums which I never had before on the TIDAL desktop would only get one or two white lights so I assume the desktop is upsampling to 24/192 am I correct??.

 

I think in my setting in Tidal desktop on a Mac the MQA file is playing at 96K or 88.2K depending on the file at Tidal. I don't think the Tidal app is up sampling. In fact, there is no setting for it to do that as far as I can see. My DAC accepts up to 96K as an NOS design. I must say, playing 96K no up sampling sounds marvellous.

 

If you set auto updates in Tidal it will do it on the fly, so may lead to some confusion. But IMO the app is improving fast. I is catching up the Audirvana on Redbook. I am waiting for the Audirvana release to see how that sounds. Exciting...

[musickid]

does tidal hifi streaming via wifi at home to a laptop work fine. is the quality as good as a wired ethernet connection

[[email protected]]

WiFi streaming depends on the quality of your service, the wireless access point, and the WiFi on the mobile device. I use iOS on iPad and iPhone around my apartment, and my service is 15Mbits/sec. 95% of the time it works as well as my desktop PC which is hard wired ethernet to the router. No noticible difference in SQ.

[musickid]

Thanks Peter

[Mark Dirac]

The two machines that I listen to Tidal on are now both playing MASTER files properly, something that has not happened up until today. And I must say, the sound is really very good now. WOW, thank you Tidal !!!

 

I am not sure what they did, but now the playback settings that I have selected remain selected when a Master track is played, instead of reverting back to System Default settings which always resulted in just average audio.

 

On my non-MQA DAC playback is now showing at 96KHz instead of 44KHz, I think they have fixed MQA playback.

 

Tidal version is now: 2.1.3.226 (W:2.0.3--6) (NP:2.3.25)

Fixed for me too. My original posting:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/tidal-windows-bug-prevents-mqa-31298/

[AudGuy]

Today, some new wrinkles ... another version upgrade, this time to 2.1.5.228 (W:2.0.3--6) (NP:2.3.26)

 

Upgrade actually landed on my machine last night and it has been mixed blessings. On my two machines, one is acting like nothing has changed, the other is not fairing so well. The PC that has an external DAC seems to be good while the machine with an XONAR STX audio card seems confused again.

 

Confusion is that the machine is now back to reverting to Default Audio whenever I ask it to play an MQA file. And I am getting the message that the default audio must be set to 16/44 which I have done. From time to time the message reappears in spite of being set accordingly. This is not reassuring and my impressions are that this system is not resolving MQA properly ... more testing tomorrow.

 

The system connected to the external DAC is behaving as it did previously showing either 88kHz or 96kHz when playing an MQA file. It is not an MQA DAC so this is as it should be. The device that has been selected for playback stays selected and I am satisfied that this system is behaving properly.

 

I don't know if this has anything to do with the MQA playback concerns but I am noticing a reluctance to play when selecting an MQA file. A spinning playback selector seems common now where it was almost never evident before. Sometimes a selected file will simply not play and I have to select a different track from the same disk which will play properly. This might be a sign of server overload on the MQA files.

 

I don't know what this latest update has provided but it has not been a welcome change. I will continue using my two systems and see what percolates out. I am a little disappointed because both of my systems were playing MQA files nicely, now one is and one isn't.

 

Does anybody know if Tidal updates can be rolled back ?

[Mark Dirac]

I too have been updated to

2.1.5.228 (W: 2.0.3--6) (NP: 2.3.26)

and all is still fine. (I have had the same problem as you for many months.) I too would like to understand how to roll back to a previous version - and to not have it automatically updated.

 

Your report of "reluctance to play" - I have always had this exact same symptom. I suspect I also get it on non-MQA, but I have not noticed. My workaround is to skip forwards and skip back, and then it plays.

[AudGuy]

Thanks Marc, here is what I noticed today.

 

Start new session, load Tidal, check streaming is set to my choice(yes), select from My Music Yes/90125/Owner of a Lonely Heart, press play. Short spinning(about 2 sec) then playback as Master file. Sound is very good.

 

OK, after song ends, press stop, then backup a level to album root, select new, David Byrne/Here Lies Love/Here Lies Love, press play. Endless spinning and Nag message to set default to 16/44. And my selected playback device has been switched back to the default device. Playback starts but sound does not seem correct.

 

Next, quit Tidal and restart it. Ensure my selected device is selected (yes) and attempt to play the previously listed file. Results are the same, endless spinning and device reset to default.

 

This would tend to suggest that this problem may be being caused by the file selected for playback ???

 

IDK, further messing about may yield something and perhaps a note to Tidal may help.

[Mark Dirac]

Thanks Marc, here is what I noticed today.

.. check streaming is set to my choice(yes), select from My Music Yes/90125/Owner of a Lonely Heart, press play. Short spinning(about 2 sec) then playback as Master file. Sound is very good.

 

OK, after song ends, press stop, then backup a level to album root, select new, David Byrne/Here Lies Love/Here Lies Love, press play. Endless spinning and Nag message to set default to 16/44. And my selected playback device has been switched back to the default device. Playback starts but sound does not seem correct.

I tried to reproduce the fault with the tracks you suggest, but all plays fine. I followed your steps above. Buffering took about 3 to 4 secs, which is to be expected for broadband in UK. No nag messages. Both tracks I selected were the MQA versions. (I recognise what you mean by the nag messages - I often got them 'till update last week.) I suspect the problem is not track-related.

 

I am annoyed that Tidal are treating customers like this. They know the circumstances causing this bug. You and I should not need to waste time re-figuring it out - Tidal should publish the circumstances under which this bug is manifest on a web page. Disrespect of customers never ends well.

[AudGuy]

Mark, you are correct ... I find that on my system that is behaving properly, nothing seems amiss with the files that give me trouble on my other system. And there does not seem to be any spinning dials or nag messages telling me to do something that has already been done. I suspect the later bit is a result from something else that is getting derailed somewhere along the line.

And to demonstrate to myself that this must be something machine specific ... I have a XONAR STX in the machine that is behaving properly, and when configured to send analog out from that card Tidal behaves pretty much the same as when utilizing the external DAC. I cannot confirm rates or anything like that, but the sound is very nice as these cards can be pretty good.

 

This whole shamozzle sort of reminds me of the woes of Pono, another company struggling to cope with success. Perhaps not on the same level as Tidal, but still a good product being hampered by overly ambitious plans. I don't really blame Tidal ... but they sure could speak up a little more and make some soothing noises. And reassure all the users that must have an enormously variant pile of equipment that they must cope with.

 

I will keep kicking the can and see what happens, to be fair, my serious listening rig is the one that is behaving properly so I am not really disadvantaged. Some guidance would be nice though ...

[alligatorman]

Anyone using bubbleupnp with raspberry pi having track stuttering and restarting issues?

I get it randomly. Desktop software and android app work fine..

[Cebolla]

It might be best to mention exactly what you mean by "bubbleupnp with raspberry pi" (eg: BubbleUPnP Server helper software and/or BubbleUPnP Android app; if BubbleUPnP Server, the relevant configuration settings & the networked machine you are running it on; if BubbleUPnP Android app, the relevant configuration settings & the Android device; the version of Raspberry Pi; the Pi's audio distro or standard distro and audio file streaming software; any WiFi use of the Pi; etc).

 

It'll save the casual reader from having to remember and/or look up your past posts mentioning something similar (if they can be bothered and assuming that info is what you are currently referring to anyway), let alone those who could potentially help.

 

I certainly do not have any track stuttering and restarting issues with my "bubbleupnp with raspberry pi" setup connecting to my TIDAL HiFi account via my home network's ISP. Howerver, that could be because I'm using the BubbleUPnP Android app (as an OpenHome controller, TIDAL quality set to streaming FLAC & Use proxy not set) on an Acer Iconia tablet and Sony Xperia S phone, with a Rasberry Pi 2 (Raspbian Jessie Lite distro, running the latest headless version of openhome.org's OpenHome Player and connected by wired ethernet to the network).

[alligatorman]

3 hours ago, Cebolla said:

It might be best to mention exactly what you mean by "bubbleupnp with raspberry pi" (eg: BubbleUPnP Server helper software and/or BubbleUPnP Android app; if BubbleUPnP Server, the relevant configuration settings & the networked machine you are running it on; if BubbleUPnP Android app, the relevant configuration settings & the Android device; the version of Raspberry Pi; the Pi's audio distro or standard distro and audio file streaming software; any WiFi use of the Pi; etc).

 

It'll save the casual reader from having to remember and/or look up your past posts mentioning something similar (if they can be bothered and assuming that info is what you are currently referring to anyway), let alone those who could potentially help.

 

I certainly do not have any track stuttering and restarting issues with my "bubbleupnp with raspberry pi" setup connecting to my TIDAL HiFi account via my home network's ISP. Howerver, that could be because I'm using the BubbleUPnP Android app (as an OpenHome controller, TIDAL quality set to streaming FLAC & Use proxy not set) on an Acer Iconia tablet and Sony Xperia S phone, with a Rasberry Pi 2 (Raspbian Jessie Lite distro, running the latest headless version of openhome.org's OpenHome Player and connected by wired ethernet to the network).

 

Hello,

 

Thank you for the detailed response. I understand how much critical information I've omitted.

Last night, per recommendation from RuneAudio forum ( http://www.runeaudio.com/forum/bubble-upnp-t2855.html ) I created a RuneAudio OpenHome renderer from the BubbleUPnP Server app running on my Qnap NAS.

That seems to have resolved it (for now).

 

So the problematic setup was:

-BubbleUPnP Android App

-RPi3 w/Rune Audio Image

-Tidal Hifi

Problem: intermittent stuttering

 

New Setup:

-BubbleUPnP Server running on QNap NAS

-OpenHome RuneAudio renderer running on above bubble server

-RPi3 w/Rune Audio (wifi and bt disabled)

-BubbleUPnP android app controller (samsung s7)

 

So, in my new setup, what part of the chain is doing what? Is my phone doing all the downloading from TidaI? I suppose I'm asking what the difference between a "server" "renderer" and "controller".

[jcn3]

2 hours ago, alligatorman said:

 

Hello,

 

Thank you for the detailed response. I understand how much critical information I've omitted.

Last night, per recommendation from RuneAudio forum ( http://www.runeaudio.com/forum/bubble-upnp-t2855.html ) I created a RuneAudio OpenHome renderer from the BubbleUPnP Server app running on my Qnap NAS.

That seems to have resolved it (for now).

 

So the problematic setup was:

-BubbleUPnP Android App

-RPi3 w/Rune Audio Image

-Tidal Hifi

Problem: intermittent stuttering

 

New Setup:

-BubbleUPnP Server running on QNap NAS

-OpenHome RuneAudio renderer running on above bubble server

-RPi3 w/Rune Audio (wifi and bt disabled)

-BubbleUPnP android app controller (samsung s7)

 

So, in my new setup, what part of the chain is doing what? Is my phone doing all the downloading from TidaI? I suppose I'm asking what the difference between a "server" "renderer" and "controller".

very simply:

* a server holds and provides your music to renderers

* a renderer plays the music (dac connected to the renderer)

* a controller tells the server what to send to the renderer

 

your set-up (or choice of words) still looks off.  the typical setup is like this:

* on your nas:  minimserver (server) and bubbleupnp server (helper app to define your renderer as open home capable)

* on your renderer (rpi3): software to play the music (rune in this case set-up as renderer)

* on your controller (samsung device): bubbleupnp app (or linn kazoo)

 

i'm not that familiar with rune, but it appears that rune can be a dlna server and a render.  if so, then you don't need minimserver and you're good the way you are (the server does not have to be on the nas).

 

now in bubbleupnp app on your samsung device:

* what are you picking as the "renderer"?  i assume you're picking the rpi3 (probably called "rune oh" or something like that).  that means you're picking the device as the receiver of the music.

* what are you picking as the "library"? i assume you're picking the rpi3 (again probably called "rune oh"). that means the music is being served from the rpi3.

 

in that situation, the rpi3 is the server and the render.  not a problem -- perfectly fine to do it that way.

 

notice you need to pick "local and cloud" to be able to select "cloud" and then get to tidal.

[alligatorman]

1 minute ago, jcn3 said:

i'm not that familiar with rune, but it appears that rune can be a dlna server and a render.  if so, then you don't need minimserver and you're good the way you are.

 

now in bubbleupnp app on your samsung device:

* what are you picking as the "renderer"?  i assume you're picking the rpi3 (probably called "rune oh" or something like that).  that means you're picking the device as the receiver of the music.

* what are you picking as the "library"? i assume you're picking the rpi3 (again probably called "rune oh"). that means the music is being served from the rpi3.

 

in that situation, the rpi3 is the server and the render.  not a problem -- perfectly fine to do it that way.

 

notice you need to pick "local and cloud" to be able to select "cloud" and then get to tidal.

 

Yes. I'm picking RuneAudio(OpenHome) as renderer on bubbleupnp android controller app

The "library" is "Local>Cloud>Tidal". I don't see RPi3 as an option to stream Tidal. Should I? How can I set that up? I'd rather have the RPi3 doing some of the lifting.

 

Thanks!

[Cebolla]

2 hours ago, alligatorman said:

 

Hello,

 

Thank you for the detailed response. I understand how much critical information I've omitted.

Last night, per recommendation from RuneAudio forum ( http://www.runeaudio.com/forum/bubble-upnp-t2855.html ) I created a RuneAudio OpenHome renderer from the BubbleUPnP Server app running on my Qnap NAS.

That seems to have resolved it (for now).

 

So the problematic setup was:

-BubbleUPnP Android App

-RPi3 w/Rune Audio Image

-Tidal Hifi

Problem: intermittent stuttering

 

New Setup:

-BubbleUPnP Server running on QNap NAS

-OpenHome RuneAudio renderer running on above bubble server

-RPi3 w/Rune Audio (wifi and bt disabled)

-BubbleUPnP android app controller (samsung s7)

 

So, in my new setup, what part of the chain is doing what? Is my phone doing all the downloading from TidaI? I suppose I'm asking what the difference between a "server" "renderer" and "controller".

The concept of (UPnP/DLNA) servers, renderers & controllers (aka control points) are still valid for your old setup:

BubbleUPnP Android app's controller function -  standard UPnP control point;

RPi3 w/Rune Audio image - standard UPnP renderer;

BubbleUPnP Android app's local media server & Cloud services function (includes access to TIDAL) - UPnP media server.

 

A pretty decent introduction to them and how they are used together can be found in the CA Academy article:

The Complete Guide To HiFi UPnP/DLNA Network Audio

 

In the old setup, TIDAL access is provided by the BubbleUPnP Android's UPnP media server's Cloud services (extended) function. This might explain why you were getting stuttering (if your network's WiFi bandwidth is close to capacity), since the Samsung S7 you are running the BubbleUPnP Android app on is using WiFi and it would be using the WiFi to both receive the tracks from the TIDAL online server and then to send them to your RPi3. Also, shutting down the BubbleUPnP Android app, would stop the RPi from playing any further TIDAL tracks.

 

Your new setup:

BubbleUPnP Server (running on QNAP NAS) create OpenHome renderer function - OpenHome renderer emulator operating a standard UPnP control point;

RPi3 w/Rune Audio (wifi and bt disabled) - standard UPnP renderer;

BubbleUPnP android app controller (samsung s7) - OpenHome control point.

 

Notice the changes in the new setup:

-The introduction of OpenHome (aka UPnP with Linn extensions) streaming and absolutely no UPnP/DLNA media server being used. The BubbleUPnP Server is not a UPnP/DLNA media server - it provides a number of helper functions for UPnP/DLNA, OpenHome & Google Cast devices on the network. One of those helper functions is the Create OpenHome renderer function

- The BubbleUPnP Android app's controller function is now being used as an OpenHome control point, not a standard UPnP/DLNA control point..

 

Unlike standard UPnP/DLNA renderers, OpenHome renderers own the playlist. So they will carry on playing the entire playlist, if the OpenHome control point is switched off. Also, unlike standard UPnP renderers, OpenHome renderers (optionally) natively support online streaming services such as TIDAL & Qobuz. So an OpenHome renderer that supports OpenHome Streaming Services only requires an OpenHome control point to create the playlist & control its playback from TIDAL.

 

The BubbleUPnP Server's created OpenHome Renderer (emulator) contains the playlist & supports OpenHome Streaming Services and therefore can access TIDAL. It also contains a standard UPnP/DLNA control point that automatically & exclusively controls the standard UPnP/DLNA renderer you've created it for. Think of it as a bridge that allows an OpenHome control point to control a standard UPnP/DLNA renderer. It translates the OpenHome control functions it receives from the OpenHome control point (that thinks it's a 'normal'/'real' OpenHome renderer) into standard UPnP control point functions.

 

I'd guess the reason why your stuttering issues have been resolved is because you are now using the BubbleUPnP Server running on the QNAP NAS, presumably with a wired connection, to receive the file tracks trom the TIDAL online server and only using the WiFi portion of the network to send the tracks to the RPi.

[oneway23]

For some reason, as of only the past week or so, there are a few Yes albums that are refusing to play their MQA variants for me, primarily Close to the Edge and Fragile.  

 

I'm currently on Windows 10 x64, with a firewall exemption granted for Tidal's .exe.  Tidal ver. 2.1.5.228 (W: 2.1.1--4) (NP: 2.3.26)

 

I have uninstalled and re-installed, cleared caches, deleted files in the hidden user folders, etc., all to no avail.

 

I have 50meg DL speed via wired ethernet at home, so bandwidth should certainly be a non-issue.  I would appreciate any help, thanks!

 

[AudGuy]

On 25/03/2017 at 5:13 AM, oneway23 said:

For some reason, as of only the past week or so, there are a few Yes albums that are refusing to play their MQA variants for me, primarily Close to the Edge and Fragile.  

 

I'm currently on Windows 10 x64, with a firewall exemption granted for Tidal's .exe.  Tidal ver. 2.1.5.228 (W: 2.1.1--4) (NP: 2.3.26)

 

I have uninstalled and re-installed, cleared caches, deleted files in the hidden user folders, etc., all to no avail.

 

I have 50meg DL speed via wired ethernet at home, so bandwidth should certainly be a non-issue.  I would appreciate any help, thanks!

 

It's a week later and these files still seem reluctant to play on either of my systems. I guess there may be something wonky about the files, or they are simply so in demand that the servers cannot provide them. I doubt the later so ... FWIW, I have found other files that are MASTER quality and I seem unable to actually play them, or if they play it seems to be with reluctance.

 

When there seems to be problems playing MASTER quality files, I suggest that another MASTER quality album be selected and an attempt made to play those files. If they play properly then it would seem likely that the problem is either with the files, or the file provider. Not really sure who puts these MASTER files together for TIDAL, whether it is themselves or the label, or whatever but there does seem to be problems playing certain file sets ... on non-MQA equipment.

 

Perhaps someone that has an MQA enabled DAC could comment on whether similar behaviour has been observed, or is this a problem only for those utilizing MQA software decoding, like TIDAL.

[Cebolla]

5 hours ago, AudGuy said:

It's a week later and these files still seem reluctant to play on either of my systems. I guess there may be something wonky about the files, or they are simply so in demand that the servers cannot provide them. I doubt the later so ... FWIW, I have found other files that are MASTER quality and I seem unable to actually play them, or if they play it seems to be with reluctance.

I have found the same problem with those two Yes albums using the same Windows version of the TIDAL desktop app - I've a UK based account, just in case it's a regional issue. It might be TIDAL's MQA software decoder that's at fault, rather than the files themselves, since they do play with the decoder switched off in pass-through mode.

 

Unfortunately, I too don't have an MQA DAC to test this further. However, what I have found is that the issue appears to be music file track specific, rather than applying to the whole album. For example, starting the Fragile album's playlist on any track other than the first, plays ok - though all three of Close to the Edge album's tracks are affected. Interestingly, if you add any unaffected track (even a non MQA one) to the playlist, just before an affected track and start playback from that unaffected track, the problem doesn't manifest itself further down the playlist when the next tracks are automatically played. Only manually selecting the affected tracks to be played causes the problem.

[[email protected]]

On March 25, 2017 at 5:13 AM, oneway23 said:

For some reason, as of only the past week or so, there are a few Yes albums that are refusing to play their MQA variants for me, primarily Close to the Edge and Fragile.  

 

I'm currently on Windows 10 x64, with a firewall exemption granted for Tidal's .exe.  Tidal ver. 2.1.5.228 (W: 2.1.1--4) (NP: 2.3.26)

 

I have uninstalled and re-installed, cleared caches, deleted files in the hidden user folders, etc., all to no avail.

 

I have 50meg DL speed via wired ethernet at home, so bandwidth should certainly be a non-issue.  I would appreciate any help, thanks!

 

I have no problem with either of these albums here in Canada.  Here is my setup.

 

15Mbits/sec Internet

 

iMac27 .. Bootcamp ..Win7 .. Tidal PC app(2.1.5.228) .. Ifi iUSB power .. Explorer2

 

Close to the edge: Blue/White/White LEDs

Fragile: Blue/White/off LEDS

 

 

[oneway23]

This is rather strange, as both of these Yes albums played for me with no issue whatsoever when Tidal's Masters series first launched.  As reported by Cebolla, the main issue with Fragile now appears to be restricted to "Roundabout" in particular, as all of the other songs from the album now seem to play without issue.  I, too, however, cannot get any of the three songs from Close to the Edge to play.  Also, as of two days ago, I now find that "Gates of Delirium" off of Relayer will no longer play, either.

 

Thanks for reporting in, peterinvan.  I'm glad someone is able to enjoy them, at least.  Good to hear!

 

At the end of the day, this, on it's face, isn't really much of a big deal overall, but, I do need Tidal to be capable playing everything consistently.  These seemingly insignificant issues are forcing me to return more frequently to my local library.

[Tribon]

Any news about possibility to play MQA files without Tidal desktop?

My configuration:

- PC with music files

- Raspberry Pi with Moode audio - renderer

- BubbleUPnP android app connected to TIDAL

 

In this configuration I can't see MQA files. As I got rid of direct connection between PC and DAC years ago I'm not willing to go back to be able to run Tidal desktop app.

Any solution or plans from Tidal side to stream MQA files on the same principle as all the other flac files?

 

 

[ahmmj]

I downloaded the tidal app to my hp laptop, Windows 10. It pauses constantly. Works fine on my other devices. Anybody know a fix. Laptop is brand new, got it today