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"It's the best" - Subjective or objective statement?


joelha

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How is that not implied by his message? Who else's opinion is he representing besides his own?

And frankly, even if he said that the DAC was truly and without a doubt the greatest audio component ever created, who cares? It's obviously only his opinion and it's up to us to judge as to how much we want to rely on his comment.

Joel

 

For people who claim they are not obsequious fanboys, you, firedog and the others sure are lapping it up with your defense of Chris.

 

You guys make me laugh.

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Yes, but to reasonable readers that is obvious and understood in context of a review where he is evaluating a DAC and giving his opinion. To not like the style is understandable and I might even agree with it; to inflate the minor criticism to some sort of issue that makes the review invalid or tainted is not.

 

The point was not to "defend" Chris, but to disagree with the critique. I guess it comes down to your concept of what a review is.

 

YUP Firedog, YOU are the "reasonable reader" not the person who actually reads what is written and sees the absurdity of an absurd comment. As I told Joelha, for something that is not such a big deal to you fanboys, who of course claim not to be fanboys and claim not to be "defending" you fanboys sure can't help yourself defending.

 

Firedog, you are a legend in your own mind as I am sure you find yourself, "reasonable".

 

So, usually, when I confront this type of nonsense,

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For people who claim they are not obsequious fanboys, you, firedog and the others sure are lapping it up with your defense of Chris.

 

You guys make me laugh.

 

Well, that was the quickest reply after a final message I've ever seen.

Regardless, what makes you think I'm defending Chris?

I wish you would read my posts more carefully.

My original post made no mention of Chris or the Berkeley.

But again, you know my mind better than I do.

Joel

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Well, that was the quick reply after a final message I've ever seen.

Regardless, what makes you think I'm defending Chris?

I wish you would read my posts more carefully.

My original post had no mention of Chris or the Berkeley.

But again, you know my mind better than I do.

Joel

 

My last post defending my position, now pointing out the obvious of you guys defending Chris. You continue to claim you are not doing things you obviously are. You continually question those who have issue with review under debate. Draw your own conclusions, as it is obvious to me, in my opinion of course, what conclusions to draw from your retorts.

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My last post defending my position, now pointing out the obvious of you guys defending Chris. You continue to claim you are not doing things you obviously are. You continually question those who have issue with review under debate. Draw your own conclusions, as it is obvious to me, in my opinion of course, what conclusions to draw from your retorts.

 

Priaptor,

As I had said before, you have the remarkable gift of knowing my intention better than I do.

You're dead wrong, but what difference would my telling you make?

Joel

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Priaptor-

 

Unlike you, I haven't used any personal invective in this thread. You repeatedly use phrases like "fanboy", "worship", and "lapping it up", that are clearly intended to denigrate and insult.

 

How difficult is it to understand that there is no worship or defense of Chris here? What there is (at least by me) is criticism of/disagreement with YOUR position. Period.

 

Is that so difficult for you that you have to define it as "fanboy worship" in order to reject it? Anyone who disagrees with your ideas immediately becomes a "fanboy"?

 

Sadly, that says much more about you than about me.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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My last post defending my position, now pointing out the obvious of you guys defending Chris. You continue to claim you are not doing things you obviously are. You continually question those who have issue with review under debate. Draw your own conclusions, as it is obvious to me, in my opinion of course, what conclusions to draw from your retorts.

 

Your posts provide far more heat than light, bringing into serious question the motive for your negativity, apart from self-aggrandizement.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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Enough of the silly nitpicking!

 

Some hopefully POSITIVE feedback for Chris C.

 

With an item like this ,I always like to see the Specifications, especially the Inputs and Outputs available.

I don't doubt for a moment that this DAC performed as well as Chris said it did in his own system, but I was unable to see (perhaps missed it? ) what was used as the source, and which input(s) were used for the review.

If Chris used a coax SPDIF or Toslink input (with perhaps a glass Toslink cable,) then the results suggest that well implemented SPDIF can equal or better the best of the Async USB DACs, which is an area that many members have up till now disputed.

 

Alex

 

Specifications:

 

Input sampling rate: 32kHz to 192kHz

 

Input word length: 24-bit

 

Ultra low phase noise Precision Clocking at 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz and 192kHz sampling rates ± 100 ppm

 

Two channel analog stereo outputs: XLR balanced with pin 2 positive and RCA unbalanced

 

Digital Inputs: AES – XLR, 110Ω; SPDIF1 – BNC, 75Ω; SPDIF2 – BNC, 75Ω; TOSLINK – Toslink optical connector

 

HDCD decoding detects 16-bit flag at 44.1kHz or 24-bit flag at all sampling rates

 

Multiple digital filter options

 

Balanced analog output level: +18dBu (6.15Vrms) maximum, +12dBu (3.1Vrms) or lower recommended

 

Unbalanced analog output level: 3.25Vrms maximum, 2Vrms or lower recommended

 

Digital volume & balance control: 0.1dB/step with .05dB/step L/R gain trim, 60dB range

 

Frequency response at ≥ 88.2kHz sampling rates: ± 0.1dB from < 0.1Hz to 35 kHz, – 3dB at 59kHz for 176.4kHz and 192kHz sampling rates

 

Distortion at recommended levels: all products ≤ -120dBFS

 

THD+N at maximum level: < -110dBFS

 

Firmware upgradeable through signal inputs

 

Enclosure dimensions: 3.5”H X 17.5”W x 12.5”D

 

Weight: 30 lbs.

 

Mains power: 100/120/240VAC, 50/60Hz

 

Power consumption: 25W

 

 

 

 

 

 

AlphaDAC_Reference_CU

 

Berkeley Audio Design: Alpha DAC Reference Series | the audio salon

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Enough of the silly nitpicking!

 

Some hopefully POSITIVE feedback for Chris C.

 

With an item like this ,I always like to see the Specifications, especially the Inputs and Outputs available.

I don't doubt for a moment that this DAC performed as well as Chris said it did in his own system, but I was unable to see (perhaps missed it? ) what was used as the source, and which input(s) were used for the review.

If Chris used a coax SPDIF or Toslink input (with perhaps a glass Toslink cable,) then the results suggest that well implemented SPDIF can equal or better the best of the Async USB DACs, which is an area that many members have up till now disputed.

 

Alex

 

Specifications:

 

Input sampling rate: 32kHz to 192kHz

 

Input word length: 24-bit

 

Ultra low phase noise Precision Clocking at 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz and 192kHz sampling rates ± 100 ppm

 

Two channel analog stereo outputs: XLR balanced with pin 2 positive and RCA unbalanced

 

Digital Inputs: AES – XLR, 110Ω; SPDIF1 – BNC, 75Ω; SPDIF2 – BNC, 75Ω; TOSLINK – Toslink optical connector

 

HDCD decoding detects 16-bit flag at 44.1kHz or 24-bit flag at all sampling rates

 

Multiple digital filter options

 

Balanced analog output level: +18dBu (6.15Vrms) maximum, +12dBu (3.1Vrms) or lower recommended

 

Unbalanced analog output level: 3.25Vrms maximum, 2Vrms or lower recommended

 

Digital volume & balance control: 0.1dB/step with .05dB/step L/R gain trim, 60dB range

 

Frequency response at ≥ 88.2kHz sampling rates: ± 0.1dB from < 0.1Hz to 35 kHz, – 3dB at 59kHz for 176.4kHz and 192kHz sampling rates

 

Distortion at recommended levels: all products ≤ -120dBFS

 

THD+N at maximum level: < -110dBFS

 

Firmware upgradeable through signal inputs

 

Enclosure dimensions: 3.5”H X 17.5”W x 12.5”D

 

Weight: 30 lbs.

 

Mains power: 100/120/240VAC, 50/60Hz

 

Power consumption: 25W

 

 

 

 

 

 

AlphaDAC_Reference_CU

 

Berkeley Audio Design: Alpha DAC Reference Series | the audio salon

 

Well, I want one and I'll wager it kicks butt!

 

Warren

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Well, I want one and I'll wager it kicks butt!

 

Warren

 

So it should for $16K !!!

 

 

I've heard that it is the best DAC out there.

 

Do you REALLY need to reintroduce the "heat" back into this thread again ?

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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So it should for $16K !!!

 

 

 

 

Do you REALLY need to reintroduce the "heat" back into this thread again ?

 

Priaptor is just being ornery...he gets grumpy and likes to take a swing or two...but he has one of the best systems of anyone on this site so he some cred...!

 

But to your point of 16K...I have a suspicion that these Berkeley guys are not in the "over-the-top" "BS" DAC manufacturer's crowd...their feet are on the ground....if they could only really work their price point up to 16K in a world of 50 to 80K product it suggests, to me, that even with an unlimited budget they understood that prices about this amount are somewhat larcenous. I truly think that the decision might well have been made that certain markets wouldn't express some interest unless the price was high...in that market 16K is almost too small.

Still bet it kicks the butt of any sorry little DAC in close proximity. ;-)

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Priaptor is just being ornery...he gets grumpy and likes to take a swing or two...but he has one of the best systems of anyone on this site so he some cred...!

 

He may have a great system, but that is no justification for his arrogance and hostility. Perhaps, he feels threatened that this $16K DAC may equal or surpass his $30K MSB Diamond IV or whatever it is that he owns.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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Priaptor is just being ornery...he gets grumpy and likes to take a swing or two...but he has one of the best systems of anyone on this site so he some cred...!

 

But to your point of 16K...I have a suspicion that these Berkeley guys are not in the "over-the-top" "BS" DAC manufacturer's crowd...their feet are on the ground....if they could only really work their price point up to 16K in a world of 50 to 80K product it suggests, to me, that even with an unlimited budget they understood that prices about this amount are somewhat larcenous. I truly think that the decision might well have been made that certain markets wouldn't express some interest unless the price was high...in that market 16K is almost too small.

Still bet it kicks the butt of any sorry little DAC in close proximity. ;-)

 

While I agree that $16k is expensive, very expensive, but not extortionary, ENOUGH with the absolutist statements!!

 

You have almost certainly NOT heard enough top-end Dacs to make that claim, even on a purely subjective basis. I tend to agree with Priaptor here that Chris did indeed make an inflammatory statement that will tick off other Dac manufacturers. The statement was entirely unnecessary and could have easily been adjusted with a few key words like "COULD be, or arguably", etc. The absolutist statement comes across as PR and that is the WORST position for a pro reviewer to be in.

 

Now from what I know of Chris, he seems to be fair and objective and must really love what he heard. I also think its fair to say that the Dac is certainly superbly engineered, but there is no need to inflame with "best on the market" absolutist statements that cause (albeit amusing) threads like this one to be born.

 

I myself have heard very expensive MSBs, EMMs, TotalDacs, Lampizators, Meitners, Illusonic immersive processors , CH Precision, PDB, GOLDMUND top line Pre/Dacs (probably in an almost $1m setup), and few others I cant even recall off the top of my head but to make an absolute blanket statement about "best in the market" is really an act of folly/futility. Tastes and PHILOSOPHY differ too much. I have not even mentioned Spectral, Memory Player, Allnic, Nagra, CAD, Vertex, Audio Note, Killer dac project and many other boutique brands out there doing good stuff.

 

Everybody knows I (like others) have my own favourites, but would never be so presumptuous as to say they would be the ABSOLUTE best on the market. That is a NOTHING statement, really.

 

Can we get back to regular programming now?

 

Chris made a very interesting review of what seems like a great product that many will like. Lets talk more about that and why he liked it so much.

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Priaptor-

 

Unlike you, I haven't used any personal invective in this thread. You repeatedly use phrases like "fanboy", "worship", and "lapping it up", that are clearly intended to denigrate and insult.

 

How difficult is it to understand that there is no worship or defense of Chris here? What there is (at least by me) is criticism of/disagreement with YOUR position. Period.

 

Is that so difficult for you that you have to define it as "fanboy worship" in order to reject it? Anyone who disagrees with your ideas immediately becomes a "fanboy"?

 

Sadly, that says much more about you than about me.

 

 

It's a no-win situation. Pretty much you just have to ignore him when he goes too far off the beam. Perhaps one day he will find the right combination of therapy and drugs, but until then... He does have some marvelously perceptive points of view upon occasion. Other times, he is in orbit. :)

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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Everybody knows I (like others) have my own favourites, but would never be so presumptuous as to say they would be the ABSOLUTE best on the market. That is a NOTHING statement, really.

 

There is nothing wrong in expressing the opinion that a particular DAC is the best that he has heard in his system. The final words should address any absolutist objections.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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There is nothing wrong in expressing the opinion that a particular DAC is the best that he has heard in his system. The final words should address any absolutist objections.

 

Chris is free to say it's the best DAC in any system.....or the worst.....or whatever his perception drives him to express. We can disagree, challenge his position, concur....or whatever our sensibilities suggest. What we can't do is OBJECT to him expressing an opinion entirely. That's oppressive and not acceptable here....or anywhere in a free society.

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There is nothing wrong in expressing the opinion that a particular DAC is the best that he has heard in his system. The final words should address any absolutist objections.

 

No problem with that statement there. Indeed, it is welcomed. The market thing is just pro-inflammatory.

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So, the real question is, was Chris being absolutist intentionally. For I agree with Priaptor and wisnon? that he (Chris) stated that the dac was the best, as if it were fact. Let's debate. Yeah!

 

And for those of you who think he was just stating an opinion, how would he go about stating a fact then? It would seem impossible. It would hardly be fair to him to give him no way of stating a fact! (And please no "because it's in a review" and it's implied kind of stuff). Just the facts ma'am.

 

-Chris (and that's a fact)

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And for those of you who think he was just stating an opinion, how would he go about stating a fact then? It would seem impossible.

 

It's good you realize that most audiophile reviews are short on "facts".

 

A fact is something that is testable or verifiable. Such as "This DAC has the best THD spec ever of 0.000001%" or "This DAC has the best frequency response ever - being flat to 0.1dB all the way to 90kHz, yet the transient response is also super, based on how well it passes these square waves and pulses."

He could even say "I ABX tested this DAC and it beat the pants off my other $5000 DAC" and that would also be a fact that the two DACs at least sound different. The opinion part would be which sounds "better".

 

As it is, this review has no facts, just opinions on how good and awesome it sounds.

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