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"It's the best" - Subjective or objective statement?


joelha

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So here's the REAL thing. I think that Chris was making a point. An intentional point when he stated that the whatever Dac is the best on the market. What and why I don't know. But the feeling I got was that it was less about the Alpha Dac and more about others, and probably one or two others in particular.

 

Others have said, "Chris is a smart guy." And if he is a smart guy he knows that when he states something as if it is fact, which is what he did (and we all know that we don't know whether it is fact or not [and that all includes Chris C.) it will have a different impact on readers than if he states it as an opinion; "It's the best dac I ever heard."

 

The key here and the problem with most of the arguments in this thread is that people were arguing about the wrong thing. The fact is that Chris was stating an opinion as if it were a fact. Unless we all believe he is God, his, like everyone elses thoughts on most matters, if not all, are opinions, no matter how they're stated. That however doesn't mean he didn't have an agenda by stating his opinion as if it were fact.

 

As to those moaning about this thread. Hey you don't have to read it, and hey it's a lot more entertaining than a lot of the endless stuff about minute technical issues that may or may not make a minuscule difference in lab animals, or some such.

 

-Chris

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I think your standards for what qualifies as "facts" are lower / more lax than mine.

 

Beanbag,

 

When you retort to Raulerson remember he, like so many others on this thread "who know", are legends in their own minds.

 

I think if you watch the following 1:30 you tube video it pretty much sums up most of these windbags:

 

 

Enjoy

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I think I can explain what some (plus me) think about this, by making it a "saying". A bit difficult, because I had to find the translation for it, and I can't be sure whether it covers my thinking for 100% :

 

Kicking sacred cows.

 

That one would be about things you always wanted to say, never dared to and ... well, the red flags thing.

The opposite of being diplomatic. Say what protest singers (Neil Young et al) sing about.

 

 

The end justifies the means.

(maybe "end" has to be aim or goal)

 

Way more difficult to explain or have right from the Dutch saying. But something like : when I drive 200Mph with a woman on board about to give birth, it is justified. Well, it is the better thing to do because chances are fair that we'll survive the trip, while chances are not so fair that the baby will at 50Mph. Generally, but I too have to interpret our own sayings with some subjectiveness, this is about taking risks. So, a self-made justification, normally not present from logical view points. It will need much clarification, like to that cop who puts you to the shoulder and now you need to provide the explanation. In normal circumstances it will work, although you still may get a (large) ticket, which of course you'll have to accept.

 

Similar is that review (OK in my view), which can't be just like that. It needs that cop and it needs the clarification. The cops are we and when we know a bit how reviews can go and what the under the hood purpose could be (remember, reviews ARE difficult for many reasons beyond most), we might need kicking the sacred cows first in order to get anywhere to begin with.

 

Regarding the latter, let me tell you that each single characher in such a text will have been very (VERY) well weighed. This includes the "the best" and also the "period". Trust me. *Because* this has been very well weighed, it is also has its explicit purpose. This is not to be trivialized to OUR justification.

And if US citizens might think they can get away with and writing, and thus also the reading (to me this comes across as an "who cares") then all is moot and no US guy should write reviews (who reads them is up to yourselves). Mind you, I am not suggesting this (poor writing) but I do notice that 90% of responses in this thread are "US like" which thus encourages for poor writing. Like in : OK, I'll (CC) get away with it next time again. This should not be encouraged for at all.

I say it again, most of you people from the US have no single clue how different we both are. There is no single match anywhere. This is also how I personally think a thread like this is intriguing, *if* you only like to try to see these differences and where the very opposite responses spring from. One thing you may know, we from Holland are "direct". It's the first thing you will notice. Heck, I should provide a list of protest singers from our country and probably you'll have difficulties letting it play in the midst of the family. But, *because* we are direct (and we are not alone in this on the planet) we are also unable to read in between the lines, think of other purposes and all what has been brought up in this thread for "justification" of another's direct writing.

 

Hey, I just try to make it "interesting". For me it is ...

Peter

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The unsaid reason many are a bit up in arms about someone with Chris's clout proclaiming something is "best on the market" is because with that clout can come big time commercial success and with the vagaries of the digital market being what they are, one statement such as that can be the difference between a product being a huge success or not. Like it or not, this sort of endorsement can mean an enormous benefit to a company and is one of those pieces of advertisement that money can't buy. The same has been said many times about the print heavy hitters such as Absolute Sound and Stereophile time and again. Goes with the territory as I'm sure Chris is only too aware of.

 

I get the parsing of words the original posters has issue with and see his point completely and am surprised that there is such a backlash to his bringing it up. It does make a difference and quite honestly that difference can really affect the commercial success of a product.

David

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The unsaid reason many are a bit up in arms about someone with Chris's clout proclaiming something is "best on the market" is because with that clout can come big time commercial success and with the vagaries of the digital market being what they are, one statement such as that can be the difference between a product being a huge success or not. Like it or not, this sort of endorsement can mean an enormous benefit to a company and is one of those pieces of advertisement that money can't buy. The same has been said many times about the print heavy hitters such as Absolute Sound and Stereophile time and again. Goes with the territory as I'm sure Chris is only too aware of.

 

I get the parsing of words the original posters has issue with and see his point completely and am surprised that there is such a backlash to his bringing it up. It does make a difference and quite honestly that difference can really affect the commercial success of a product.

 

Real,

 

Ahh, but the OP claims he doesn't have an issue. He claims he just wants to know why others have issues and why it bothers them. Of course, in his petulant manner any answer given him is always met with "but why".

 

Somm - Rotten Tomatoes

 

Watch that movie if you choose. See what those guys have to do to become a "master" that justifies their "clout" to render an opinion of a product that kind of has a similar following to those under discussion here. Even then, those people don't use such absolute terms in reviewing a product under their domain.

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when I drive 200Mph with a woman on board about to give birth, it is justified. Well, it is the better thing to do because chances are fair that we'll survive the trip, while chances are not so fair that the baby will at 50Mph.

Peter, I know you are just using that as an example, but I have to say: Do NOT attempt to do 200mph in a car with a woman on board about to give birth. Just stop the car, call an ambulance, make the lady comfortable and catch the baby if it pops out before the ambulance arrives. The chances of improving the baby's outlook by arriving at a hospital a few minutes earlier are infinitesimal compared to the chance of someone getting killed speeding like that.

 

Chris

Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.

- Einstein

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Real,

 

Ahh, but the OP claims he doesn't have an issue. He claims he just wants to know why others have issues and why it bothers them. Of course, in his petulant manner any answer given him is always met with "but why".

 

Somm - Rotten Tomatoes

 

Watch that movie if you choose. See what those guys have to do to become a "master" that justifies their "clout" to render an opinion of a product that kind of has a similar following to those under discussion here. Even then, those people don't use such absolute terms in reviewing a product under their domain.

 

My bad on this one. Was actually siding with you on this. What I meant was I can see 100% why you have taken issue with the wording of that review. It makes a great tag line for their advertising campaign I would think.

David

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Peter, I know you are just using that as an example, but I have to say: Do NOT attempt to do 200mph in a car with a woman on board about to give birth. Just stop the car, call an ambulance, make the lady comfortable and catch the baby if it pops out before the ambulance arrives. The chances of improving the baby's outlook by arriving at a hospital a few minutes earlier are infinitesimal compared to the chance of someone getting killed speeding like that.

 

Chris

 

Holland is the biggest car park in Europe you can't even reach the 120 km/h speed limit,so definitly Peter is dreaming.

And any how the country is so small that you can walk to any hospital ¨-)

 


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Hey,

What's up with this? It was just a review...ferchrisakes!

Wdw

 

Sacrilege!!

For some, perhaps both figuratively and literally. :)

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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Others have said that "Stereophile" and the like use absolutes when describing certain products, but I don't remember reading any quite as absolute as Chris' statement. I 've read a lot of Stereophile and some other reviewers, but have avoided "The Absolute Sound" so I can't speak about them.

 

I'd be interested if anyone has examples of absolutes similar to Chris' re audio products reviewed by so-called reputable media.

 

-Chris

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Others have said that "Stereophile" and the like use absolutes when describing certain products, but I don't remember reading any quite as absolute as Chris' statement. I 've read a lot of Stereophile and some other reviewers, but have avoided "The Absolute Sound" so I can't speak about them.

 

I'd be interested if anyone has examples of absolutes similar to Chris' re audio products reviewed by so-called reputable media.

 

-Chris

 

The points have all been made already, and Chris C. will have seen and digested them.

It's really not good form to continue this discussion further, as Chris is the owner of this forum.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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In your theory perhaps, but not in fact.

 

(*sigh*)

 

Because I am not particularly interested in hurting someone's feelings when they come up with a foolish idea, or sprout some foolish theory, does not mean I agree with them. You should recognize that kind of over-civilized behavior from your recent diatribe about DSD.

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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The points have all been made already, and Chris C. will have seen and digested them.

It's really not good form to continue this discussion further, as Chris is the owner of this forum.

 

I have no idea why you would think that (not good form). It's a discussion forum and Chris C wrote something that interests folks. If he wanted to clarify or defend or whatever the "interesting" statement, he could, but he chooses not to comment, so....

 

We speculate and do our forum thing until we get tired of the subject and move on to something else.

 

-Chris

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