HQ Player

[sdmarquart]

5 minutes ago, sdmarquart said:

You maybe mixing ADI-2 settings and HQPlayer settings? ADI-2 needs to be configured correctly for good results. For example if the reference level is set too high, it may run your amplifier input stages into clipping which certainly will make things sound harsh. For my equipment +13 dBu reference level is good, but some amplifiers may need it one step lower.

So, these settings in HQP are good, and I just need to modify the settings on the ADI-2 DAC, correct?

 

[JTS]

@sdmarquart When I installed my RME ADI-2, I initially experienced harshness, thinness etc. It was because I was sending too strong of a signal into my preamp and inturn into my monitors. I also had my Neumann monitors trimmed down to -15dBu using the trimpots. Once I reduced the ref level to +1/+7 and brought my monitor trim to 0dBu, it changed everything.

 

I would recommend putting a pre between the RME and your monitors - a passive balance pre, or something like a Schiit Freya which allow you to run passive, jfet or tube gain. It will allow you to run the RME in DSD direct which works very very well. I run it in passive for work and tubes for pleasure listening.

 

[Quadman]

33 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

I have yet to read any thread on these forums in which someone upgraded to something like an Aurender and decided it sounded much worse and reverted back to their PC.

I was just visiting my buddy in MN, he has an Aurender W20 and streams tidal it connects to a CEC DA 0 3.0 dac ($31K), his disc spinner is the CEC TL 0 3.0 belt drive transport (also 31k) his electronics are all Tidal (the audio company) and his speakers are Tidal Akira.  One very expensive and impressive system.  The aurrender is by far the weakest link in this setup.  Songs I play in my system, with tidal through my big boy server at DSD512 sounded so much better than what I heard in his room, through the Aurender and above mentioned electronics, I was shocked.  His CD system is close to what I get at DSD512 but seriously $62k for that vs my $1.5K server, $4k dac (T+A),  Crazy.  People who go the Aurender route want an easy button, never fail play.  PC servers have their quirks and most affluent audiophiles prefer not to deal with those quirks.  Servers done right exceed what Aurender can do, I am 100% convinced of that.

[jimdukey]

My Vol Control is set -3.0 and -3.0 Min and Max.

I believe Jussi recommended that setting as OK, for upsampling to DSD 128.

Why are some set to -60.0?

[AnotherSpin]

46 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

I have yet to read any thread on these forums in which someone upgraded to something like an Aurender and decided it sounded much worse and reverted back to their PC.  Ever.  I’m not saying its never happened, just that in thousands of hours of reading, I’ve never witnessed such a reversal, and have read numerous posts going the other way.

 

Aurender is an upgrade from regular computer. However, it doesn't mean the upgrade from Aurender, also in cost/result ratio  is not possible. You may read such threads as: 

 

[sdmarquart]

37 minutes ago, JTS said:

I would recommend putting a pre between the RME and your monitors - a passive balance pre, or something like a Schiit Freya which allow you to run passive, jfet or tube gain. It will allow you to run the RME in DSD direct which works very very well. I run it in passive for work and tubes for pleasure listening.

Hmmm. I was looking at something like this: http://www.goldpt.com/sa1x.html

 

Sounds like you're saying Direct Mode is still the way to go. So I'd use the volume knob on the Goldpoint. And the Optical (vinyl) and Coaxial outputs would also use the Goldpoint or would they use the RME??

[JTS]

56 minutes ago, sdmarquart said:

Sounds like you're saying Direct Mode is still the way to go.

 

Yes - that would be the idea. DSD direct is the way to go. It does not allow for most DSP functions on the ADI-2, though (including volume). I looked at the goldpoint a while ago. Looks great. I cannot speak to the vinyl chain, though. I'm 100% digital here.

 

[sdmarquart]

2 minutes ago, JTS said:

 

Yes - that would be the idea. DSD direct is the way to go. It does not allow for most DSP functions on the ADI-2, though (including volume). I looked at the goldpoint a while ago. Looks great. I cannot speak to the vinyl chain, though. I'm 100% digital here.

 

Yes. Looking at the Goldpoint. So, for clarification, Running DSD Direct from HQP into RME ADI-2 DAC it will output a signal and the balanced lines would go into the goldpoint. And then out of the goldpoint into my powered speakers? I would lose volume control on the ADI-2 (which means no remote control volume DAMN!) but would it still show the spectrum analyzer on the front of the DAC? And what about other digital outputs like Optical and Coaxial? Those wouldn't be running DSD direct would they? Just trying to understand here..

 

[sdmarquart]

Essentially, I'm looking at the Goldpoint passive preamp volume control. And how to use HQPlayer with RME ADI-2 DAC in direct dsd mode. I know there's a setting in HQP that I have to check to set to Direct DSD. And then also on the ADI-2. Correct?

 

Then, I'd lose volume control on the DAC and use the Goldpoint. Also, the ADI would output everything as DSD? Including optical and coaxial inputs?

 

I appreciate the help. The point here is to get the digital to sound better. I'm hearing DSD direct is a good start. And maybe more cost effective. I've nixed the SOTM SMS 200 idea.

 

Thanks,

Spence

[DancingSea]

3 hours ago, Quadman said:

I was just visiting my buddy in MN, he has an Aurender W20 and streams tidal it connects to a CEC DA 0 3.0 dac ($31K), his disc spinner is the CEC TL 0 3.0 belt drive transport (also 31k) his electronics are all Tidal (the audio company) and his speakers are Tidal Akira.  One very expensive and impressive system.  The aurrender is by far the weakest link in this setup.  Songs I play in my system, with tidal through my big boy server at DSD512 sounded so much better than what I heard in his room, through the Aurender and above mentioned electronics, I was shocked.  His CD system is close to what I get at DSD512 but seriously $62k for that vs my $1.5K server, $4k dac (T+A),  Crazy.  People who go the Aurender route want an easy button, never fail play.  PC servers have their quirks and most affluent audiophiles prefer not to deal with those quirks.  Servers done right exceed what Aurender can do, I am 100% convinced of that.

 

The Aurender may have been the weakest link.  My question is, how do you know?  Were you able to replace his Aurender with a PC source in order to test in his system?  I don’t doubt that your system sounded better because you claim it as such, but in your example, I’m not clear how the issue is isolated to his Aurender without replacing it with something else.

[k6davis]

4 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

The Aurender may have been the weakest link.  My question is, how do you know?  Were you able to replace his Aurender with a PC source in order to test in his system?  I don’t doubt that your system sounded better because you claim it as such, but in your example, I’m not clear how the issue is isolated to his Aurender without replacing it with something else.

 

Your point is 110% logical and I don't disagree with it any way.

 

That said, having always ignored Aurender before because of their pricing and the much too small (for me) storage capacity, I looked at their website. It looks like a "premium lifestyle" product to me. It's pretty. I suspect it's functional and pleasant to use. And lots of reviewers say it sounds great. I've bought and returned so many products that reviewers said sounded great that I take reviews with a whole shaker full of salt. I couldn't find any explanation on the website of what's in it that would make it sound special.

[sdmarquart]

Any DSD Direct RME ADI-2 DAC FS users out there?

 

If you select DSD direct mode on the DAC, you forgo any volume control on the unit. I purchased a passive pre-amp for volume control from goldpoint. I'm using HQPlayer with Roon. I need to know this. Does the DAC now output everything in DSD? What about my optical input that is vinyl (using a A to D converter). When I select the Optical input, what does the DAC output? Is it converted to DSD? I can't find anything on this and it's driving me mad.

 

Thanks,

Spencer

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, k6davis said:

 

Your point is 110% logical and I don't disagree with it any way.

 

That said, having always ignored Aurender before because of their pricing and the much too small (for me) storage capacity, I looked at their website. It looks like a "premium lifestyle" product to me. It's pretty. I suspect it's functional and pleasant to use. And lots of reviewers say it sounds great. I've bought and returned so many products that reviewers said sounded great that I take reviews with a whole shaker full of salt. I couldn't find any explanation on the website of what's in it that would make it sound special.

 

I'm not an Aurender adherent, just using it as an example.  But there are many other audio specific server/ streamers, some of which allow the use of HQPlayer and Roon.  I'm all for making the most out of a Mac or PC.  There can come a point where one has invested in so many little devices, UltraRendu, etc etc that the grand total can easily push one into the Aurender/ Auralic/ etc market.

[JTS]

3 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

 it still show the spectrum analyzer on the front of the DAC? And what about other digital outputs like Optical and Coaxial? Those wouldn't be running DSD direct would they? Just trying to understand here..

 

 

Page 32 and 33 of their excellent manual goes over this. The analyzer functions in DSD Direct. Not sure about the other interfaces (S/PDIF, Toslink)  and not even sure they operate as outputs on the DAC fs. You could try stuff out or check the RME forum for answers on that (probably a better spot for this discussion, given that we are on the HQP thread here).

 

In my system the pre (Freya) runs the volume (and there's a remote!). The RME stays at -3.5 with DSD and PCM unless I'm using an outboard headphone amplifier (story for another thread).

[sdmarquart]

22 minutes ago, JTS said:

 

Page 32 and 33 of their excellent manual goes over this. The analyzer functions in DSD Direct. Not sure about the other interfaces (S/PDIF, Toslink)  and not even sure they operate as outputs on the DAC fs. You could try stuff out or check the RME forum for answers on that (probably a better spot for this discussion, given that we are on the HQP thread here).

 

In my system the pre (Freya) runs the volume (and there's a remote!). The RME stays at -3.5 with DSD and PCM unless I'm using an outboard headphone amplifier (story for another thread).

I just looked that up in the manual. Not a ton of info on the Direct DSD setting. So, it does still shows the Analyzer in DSD Direct Mode. Yay. That's good news.  

 

I also made a post in the RME ADI-2 Forum. Nothing back on that.

And the manual says absolutely nothing regarding the Optical, and Coaxial inputs and how they are output in DSD Direct mode. This is surprising since @Miska says this is the preferred way for best sound with the DAC. I just wish it would say more. Ugh.

 

I appreciate the input. Maybe the Optical and Coaxial input audio is not output as DSD Direct and then the volume control is active for those outputs. Then it goes through the preamp bypass since it has to as that's how it's connected to my speakers.

 

Who the heck knows? And I searched all over the net. And nothing!

[sdmarquart]

Also, do you just keep the SDM settings in HQPlayer and then it gets to the DAC and outputs PCM? I assume that the coaxial and optical would output PCM too. Yet all volume control is at the preamp bypass?

[asdf1000]

On 4/7/2019 at 11:28 PM, Ales Prochazka said:

 

Hi,

 

I tried to realize it some time ago.
Level - amateur!

crossfeed.zip 74.67 kB · 21 downloads

 

Hi @Ales Prochazka

 

I've been enjoying your Bauer crossfeed files very much. Chu Moy is my favourite.

 

I have two questions, if you can kindly help

 

Q1) I see in your included "hqp.png" file, you have impulse response .wav files

 

But in your zip file I only use ChuMoy the high_pass.wav and low_pass.wav files

 

Am I missing impulse response files or do I have it ok?

 

See below: top is your "hqp.png" file settings and bottom is my settings.

 

Q2) Is gain -2dB enough for ChuMoy crossfeed? I do use -3dB fixed volume in main HQP volume settings for up-sampling to DSD256.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

 

 

[AnotherSpin]

5 hours ago, DancingSea said:

 

I'm not an Aurender adherent, just using it as an example.  But there are many other audio specific server/ streamers, some of which allow the use of HQPlayer and Roon.  I'm all for making the most out of a Mac or PC.  There can come a point where one has invested in so many little devices, UltraRendu, etc etc that the grand total can easily push one into the Aurender/ Auralic/ etc market.

 

Several posts ago Miska pointed it very clearly, imho. Aurender, or many such products are computers similar to RaspberryPi with old operating system. Elegant cases, ok, different story inside. It is very easy to DIY much more powerful sets with much better operating systems with necessary isolation/grounding, better PSU, etc. and to get much better sound for less money. And I am not speaking about Rendus either. 

[Miska]

11 hours ago, jimdukey said:

My Vol Control is set -3.0 and -3.0 Min and Max.

I believe Jussi recommended that setting as OK, for upsampling to DSD 128.

Why are some set to -60.0?

 

Default range is from -60 to 0... There's no need to change it, what matters is where the volume knob is actually set. With -3/-3 it can just go to one setting and nothing else. I use -6 to 0 range myself, normal setting thus having volume knob pointing up at -3 setting. This allows some small trim adjustment. For about 90+ % of material -3 setting is fine. There are few albums where lower volume settings may be needed.

 

[Miska]

6 hours ago, DancingSea said:

There can come a point where one has invested in so many little devices, UltraRendu, etc etc that the grand total can easily push one into the Aurender/ Auralic/ etc market.

 

Difference is that Rendu and sMS-200 for example when used with HQPlayer are audio endpoints, not players. All the heavy lifting DSP is performed by HQPlayer. This is the same case also with networked converters like Merging Hapi and Anubis.

 

Aurender and Auralic are trying to be players and they cannot be used with HQPlayer. And they lack the essential DSP performance.

 

[Miska]

8 hours ago, DancingSea said:

The Aurender may have been the weakest link.  My question is, how do you know?  Were you able to replace his Aurender with a PC source in order to test in his system?  I don’t doubt that your system sounded better because you claim it as such, but in your example, I’m not clear how the issue is isolated to his Aurender without replacing it with something else.

 

Please take the Aurender discussion to some Aurender thread, out of HQPlayer thread. Thanks!

 

[Miska]

6 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

Any DSD Direct RME ADI-2 DAC FS users out there?

 

I have two ADI-2 Pro's, which is essentially same product, but with additional AES/EBU in/out and ADC.

 

6 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

Does the DAC now output everything in DSD?

 

No, just DSD goes straight to analog conversion without additional DSP.

 

This is why you should set ADI-2's volume control to -3.5 dB so that you get same relative level for both PCM and DSD inputs. It is just convenient if you happen to use PCM.

 

6 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

What about my optical input that is vinyl (using a A to D converter).

 

Works the same as before. You may have been better off with ADI-2 Pro - then you wouldn't need a separate external ADC, but would have extremely high quality built-in one. That would also allow you to have vinyl -> DSD256 -> analog.

 

Have you considered playing vinyl through HQPlayer?

 

6 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

When I select the Optical input, what does the DAC output?

 

The same PCM that comes in. I think you could also send DSD64 over DoP there, I have not tested.

 

6 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

Is it converted to DSD?

 

No...

 

5 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

Maybe the Optical and Coaxial input audio is not output as DSD Direct and then the volume control is active for those outputs.

 

It is not. DSD Direct only affects how DSD inputs are played, it has no effect on PCM inputs.

 

IMO, with ADI-2 it is better to have analog preamp with volume control instead of using ADI-2's volume control.

 

[sdmarquart]

22 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

No, just DSD goes straight to analog conversion without additional DSP.

 

This is why you should set ADI-2's volume control to -3.5 dB so that you get same relative level for both PCM and DSD inputs. It is just convenient if you happen to use PCM.

Thanks @Miska So, for my HQPlayer settings do I turn on DSD direct or leave it as my sdm settings? 

 

I was hoping that by using DSD direct on the adi-2, it would improve the sound of everything coming from HQP, be it dsf files or other non dsf files. Pretty sure it will since they are sending DSD over dop in SDM to the ADI-2. In direct DSD mode, I’m still outputting everything (usb, coaxial, optical) to a passive preamp with volume control, correct? Where do I set the ADI-2’s volume control to -3.5? 

By going DSD direct on the adi I no longer get volume control on the unit, it all happens at the passive preamp, correct?

 

thanks,

spencer

 

 

[sdmarquart]

36 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

It is not. DSD Direct only affects how DSD inputs are played, it has no effect on PCM inputs.

 

IMO, with ADI-2 it is better to have analog preamp with volume control instead of using ADI-2's volume con

 

So confused. Since I’m changing the adi-2 DAC to DSD direct mode, how does it output optical? Am I using the passive pre volume or the adi-2 volume??

[sdmarquart]

@Miska

i wanna be clear on the HQP settings using DSD direct mode on the adi-2 DAC. Do I change anything with the settings in hqplayer? Such as dop or turn on direct DSD. I don’t have the passive pre to rest yet, but wanna understand before I get it.

 

thanks!