HQ Player

[sdmarquart]

2 hours ago, tboooe said:

@sdmarquart I suggest you try measuring your room response and try convolution with HQP.  Compare what you are getting with vinyl vs digital.  You can then create filters to use with HQP that mimics what your vinyl setup is giving you. You can use software like REW which is free and buy a decent USB microphone for less than $100.  Room correction was by far the best audio investment I ever did.

 

Thanks for the input. So, you created filters with the REW program? This is new to me. I may look into it.

 

Thanks,

Spence

[AnotherSpin]

30 minutes ago, sdmarquart said:

 

I'm not quite understanding what this means. What's my quiet computer? I prolly need a video or diagram to show how this all works. I'm not into purchasing another computer.

 

Thanks,

Spence

 

It was from your post: "I don't want to have to use another PC as the one I have is quiet and stout". This forum has a ton of info on NAA, there is no need for video it is so simple. Thank you for replying.

[sdmarquart]

54 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

It was from your post: "I don't want to have to use another PC as the one I have is quiet and stout". This forum has a ton of info on NAA, there is no need for video it is so simple. Thank you for replying.

 

Okay. Basically, I think it's just the limitations with digital. My speakers and setup are optimally set up. I'm hearing exactly how the digital sounds. Compared to vinyl, it sounds harsh. Even a DSD transfer like Gram Parson's album "Grievous Angel". The DSD sounds very good. Then I put on the old original label vinyl. And it's a revelation. I've also tried recording vinyl with "Vinyl Studio". I listen to the recording of the vinyl, and sure enough it adds all the digital harshness. Which makes it a moot point. I really don't want to have to set an equalizer or something like that to warm up the digital sound. That's too tedious. With professional studio monitors, what you hear is what you get. Not sure there's a vinyl filter to meet my digital needs. I think it's more how the music is mastered digitally. That's the real travesty.

 

It is what it is. I'll keep trying stuff to get the digital up to snuff. But I'm pretty much vinyl for best quality and transparent reproduction. I also realize this is not a newsflash to all of you. Maybe @Miska can come up with a vinyl sounding hqplayer filter. : )

 

Thanks,

Spence

[k6davis]

3 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

Basically, I think it's just the limitations with digital.

 

My guess is that your digital rig is not as good as your analog rig.

 

I've been experimenting with my digital system for many years and I've refined it to a point beyond what I thought was possible. Nothing I hear when I go to a high-end audio shop compares to what I hear at home. And that's regardless of whether they're playing vinyl or bits.

 

It may be the case that digital is capable of more than what you've experienced. But what matters is that you have a system that you enjoy.

[sdmarquart]

Thanks. Yes, always a work in progress. I’ve spent hours and days tweaking my digital setup. Curious cables, linear power supply for usb “recovery” unit made by Kenneth Lau in Hong Kong. Better power cables, Roon lifetime through HQ Player through Focal studio monitors. Sounds good. Then I hook up a Denon turntable into preamp into $20 analog to digital optical out into DAC and its a huge difference with little effort. Sounds eons better.

Welp, I just ordered this!

https://sotm-usa.com/products/sms-200-neo-network-player

Anyone with advice, experience? Can you play stuff from your pc like YouTube? I don’t want to lose playback from youtube or things like Facebook. What are the benefits/drawbacks? I wanna get the digital in the ballpark of analog.

 

Thanks,

Spence

[DancingSea]

12 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

 

I also have a USB regenerator called "Recovery". This guy. https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/recovery So I feel I'm taking the necessary steps for best digital sound.

 

 

 

The Recovery is just the tip of the iceberg, on many levels, regarding the degree people go in order to make digital sound less digital.  Having spent far too much reading posts on forums like these, I can offer the following conclusions:

 

1)  Vinyl can ultimately trump digital, but it takes many times more money invested in a quality vinyl rig than it costs to get “really good” with a digital setup. 

 

2) While streamers like the UltraRendu do quite a lot, but if you really want take a step forward, ditch the computer entirely and buy some like an Aurender or Auralic.

 

3) The DAC is very very important to curing digital woes, so if you’re not liking the results of your DAC, I wouldn’t then use that experience to conclude all digital is beneath vinyl.  A better DAC and or better cabling, and better power, etc, etc can all make a significant difference.  

 

HQP filters can help, but the filters are not capable of curing various fundamental woes in the rest of your rig.   Also, Focal speakers have a reputation for being bright, or harsh in the trebles.

 

This is all a real, and expensive slippery slope, so if you’re loving your vinyl rig, be happy and turn around while you still can .😂

[PieterP]

11 hours ago, tboooe said:

@sdmarquart I suggest you try measuring your room response and try convolution with HQP.  Compare what you are getting with vinyl vs digital.  You can then create filters to use with HQP that mimics what your vinyl setup is giving you. You can use software like REW which is free and buy a decent USB microphone for less than $100.  Room correction was by far the best audio investment I ever did.

Is there a practical guide for how to do room correction with REW/USB-mic --> HQP-convolution ?  

[StreamFidelity]

14 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

Thanks guys! Really appreciate the feedback. I understand I'm most likely just hearing digital quite clearly - warts and all. And when something sounds great - like a straight DSD recording, I reap the benefits. I'm happy with my HQPlayer filter and upsampling to DSD.

 

My setup starts with this PC. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CS250v6--sweetwater-custom-computing-cs250-2u-professional-audio-and-video-production-workstation

 

I also have a USB regenerator called "Recovery". This guy. https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/recovery So I feel I'm taking the necessary steps for best digital sound.

 

I need to hear more about NAA. I don't want to have to use another PC as the one I have is quiet and stout. But send some NAA links. Are you talking Micro Rendu? I tried that once, but had continual audio breakups and quickly returned it. My internet is AT&T fiber with 1000 mbps speed. But I'd apprecate any more info.

 

I'm out for the afternoon hiking with a friend. But I'll comment later.

 

Thanks guys. I realize you just can't top good vinyl, but there's always ways to improve digital.

 

Spence

 

I think you have to invest more in PC hardware. I looked at your pc and see two fans. Even when the fans turn quietly, they cause electromagnetic interference. The audio PC should be configured for audio only and not for other purposes such as watching video. In addition, it is better to use a high-quality USB and network card in the PC directly. For example JCAT USB / NET Card Femto to use.

 

There is a lot of optimization potential, but not with this PC. Think about 2-PC-Solution. The first is your old PC and you put in basement. The second pc you buy fanless and uses it exclusively for audio. Only my personal opinion, if you really want to improve digitally.

[Miska]

16 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

Here's what I'm wondering. Is there an HQPlayer filter that sounds flat? All of a sudden it all sounds very trebly on the highs.

 

Do you have DSD Direct switched on in ADI-2? And set the DSD Filter to 50 kHz. Also check the reference level setting that you are not sending too hot signal to your amplifier.

 

Get started with poly-sinc-short-mp-2s filter and ASDM5 modulator and send DSD256 to the ADI-2.

 

Then it certainly doesn't sound harsh, if it does, the harshness is in the amp or speakers. You could take a pair of Dynaudio speakers for demo comparison...

 

[Miska]

2 hours ago, DancingSea said:

2) While streamers like the UltraRendu do quite a lot, but if you really want take a step forward, ditch the computer entirely and buy some like an Aurender or Auralic.

 

Haha, that would take everything backwards so much!

 

Do you realize those are computers similar to RaspberryPi, old operating system and and 10x - 100x price tag slammed on top...  With pathetic DSP capabilities...

 

[AnotherSpin]

4 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

Thanks. Yes, always a work in progress. I’ve spent hours and days tweaking my digital setup. Curious cables, linear power supply for usb “recovery” unit made by Kenneth Lau in Hong Kong. Better power cables, Roon lifetime through HQ Player through Focal studio monitors. Sounds good. Then I hook up a Denon turntable into preamp into $20 analog to digital optical out into DAC and its a huge difference with little effort. Sounds eons better.

Welp, I just ordered this!

https://sotm-usa.com/products/sms-200-neo-network-player

Anyone with advice, experience? Can you play stuff from your pc like YouTube? I don’t want to lose playback from youtube or things like Facebook. What are the benefits/drawbacks? I wanna get the digital in the ballpark of analog.

 

Thanks,

Spence

 

Well, SOtM may work for you. Even though some people believe it is outdated and not powerful enough to produce reach and full sound. You may want to read the thread below. Also, noise control/clean power is extremely important. Your computer has fans?...

 

[Miska]

19 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

I think you have to invest more in PC hardware. I looked at your pc and see two fans. Even when the fans turn quietly, they cause electromagnetic interference. The audio PC should be configured for audio only and not for other purposes such as watching video. In addition, it is better to use a high-quality USB and network card in the PC directly. For example JCAT USB / NET Card Femto to use.

 

Those are Noctua's fans, I also use them, very good ones.

 

I have fans in my servers and they don't sound harsh:

 

In my build, no need for separate USB card, the motherboard has special purpose USB ports already. And network card in general doesn't need any fiddling as long as it has good offload processors (so pay attention to what kind of network processor it has). The old motherboard had Killer NIC which was somewhat better than the Intel in this new one.

 

[sdmarquart]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Do you have DSD Direct switched on in ADI-2? And set the DSD Filter to 50 kHz. Also check the reference level setting that you are not sending too hot signal to your amplifier.

 

I don’t do DSD direct. I do SDM (DSD). I will try the settings you recommended.

 

@Miska

 

https://sotm-usa.com/products/sms-200-neo-network-player

I’m also gonna try this thing out to see if it improves the digital sound. But how would I play things from my computer like YouTube and videos with audio?

 

thanks,

Spence

[AnotherSpin]

1 hour ago, sdmarquart said:

 

I don’t do DSD direct. I do SDM (DSD). I will try the settings you recommended.

 

@Miska

 

https://sotm-usa.com/products/sms-200-neo-network-player

I’m also gonna try this thing out to see if it improves the digital sound. But how would I play things from my computer like YouTube and videos with audio?

 

thanks,

Spence

 

The easy way would be the following. Make two connections, one is your computer -> SOtM -> DAC USB input. Second: computer -> DAC optical (or other input). After that you may change between DAC inputs when you want to watch video or listening music.

[tboooe]

7 hours ago, PieterP said:

Is there a practical guide for how to do room correction with REW/USB-mic --> HQP-convolution ?  

Here is a good video.  

 

https://www.gikacoustics.com/room-eq-wizard-tutorial/

[luisma]

@Miska, I am planning on getting an ADI-2 DAC supposedly the THD and noise levels for the price are great, if compared to the Pro-ject S2 with HQPe which one would you prefer? the ADI probably?

[asdf1000]

On 6/29/2019 at 4:12 PM, Em2016 said:

Hi @Miska

 

I have bauer crossfeed enabled via HQP Embedded's Matrix page.

 

If I already have a fixed volume of -9 dB enabled in Config page, do I still need "gain" value in Matrix field?

 

 

Hi @Miska

 

Just wondering if you can help with advice here?

 

Is there a need for matrix pipeline gain of -6dB if I already have -9dB fixed volume?

 

[Miska]

4 hours ago, luisma said:

@Miska, I am planning on getting an ADI-2 DAC supposedly the THD and noise levels for the price are great, if compared to the Pro-ject S2 with HQPe which one would you prefer? the ADI probably?

 

Yes, ADI-2 definitely, altough it is somewhat more expensive as well.. Or ADI-2 Pro if you think you'll need an ADC at some point.

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

Is there a need for matrix pipeline gain of -6dB if I already have -9dB fixed volume?

 

Depends what you are trying to do. For example in 5.1 to stereo mix down the relative channel levels are important. If all your mix levels are the same, you can also compensate for the mix gain with main volume control.

 

[sdmarquart]

10 hours ago, Miska said:

Also check the reference level setting that you are not sending too hot signal to your amplifier.

@Miska What do you mean by sending too hot of a signal to my amplifier? These are my current settings.

[sdmarquart]

Also, when using DoP to output everything as DSD (not direct), do the PCM default settings matter?? I thought it only reads the SDM defaults.

 

Thanks,

Spence

 

[DancingSea]

10 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Haha, that would take everything backwards so much!

 

Do you realize those are computers similar to RaspberryPi, old operating system and and 10x - 100x price tag slammed on top...  With pathetic DSP capabilities...

 

 

I have yet to read any thread on these forums in which someone upgraded to something like an Aurender and decided it sounded much worse and reverted back to their PC.  Ever.  I’m not saying its never happened, just that in thousands of hours of reading, I’ve never witnessed such a reversal, and have read numerous posts going the other way.

[Miska]

6 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

I don’t do DSD direct. I do SDM (DSD). I will try the settings you recommended.

 

You maybe mixing ADI-2 settings and HQPlayer settings? ADI-2 needs to be configured correctly for good results. For example if the reference level is set too high, it may run your amplifier input stages into clipping which certainly will make things sound harsh. For my equipment +13 dBu reference level is good, but some amplifiers may need it one step lower.

 

When using SDM output from HQPlayer, it is important to have ADI-2 set to DSD Direct mode to avoid extra DSP in the DAC. To have same volume for both PCM and DSD inputs, turn ADI-2's volume control to -3.5 dB setting. Note that this also affects suitable reference level.

 

7 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

https://sotm-usa.com/products/sms-200-neo-network-player

I’m also gonna try this thing out to see if it improves the digital sound. But how would I play things from my computer like YouTube and videos with audio?

 

For YouTube and videos, on my desktop system I have a DAC card in Schiit Jotunheim amp. Not used for music listening, just videos. Easy to switch by selecting correct input on the amplifier. There are many ways to have a cheap DAC for such uses.

 

[sdmarquart]

5 minutes ago, Miska said:

When using SDM output from HQPlayer, it is important to have ADI-2 set to DSD Direct mode to avoid extra DSP in the DAC. To have same volume for both PCM and DSD inputs, turn ADI-2's volume control to -3.5 dB setting. Note that this also affects suitable reference level.

Ooooh? I didn't know there was a DSD direct mode set on ADI-2? I always assumed DSD direct meant that you lost volume control. I will try that. When you say turn ADI-2's volume control to -3.5 dB setting, is that in the settings menu??

 

6 minutes ago, Miska said:

You maybe mixing ADI-2 settings and HQPlayer settings? ADI-2 needs to be configured correctly for good results. For example if the reference level is set too high, it may run your amplifier input stages into clipping which certainly will make things sound harsh. For my equipment +13 dBu reference level is good, but some amplifiers may need it one step lower.

I have the ADI-2 set to auto-reference I believe? I'll check these settings when I get home from work.

 

Thanks,

Spence

[sdmarquart]

@Miska From the RME ADI-2 manual:

 

"Even more extreme is DSD Direct. If activated (SETUP, Options, Device Mode), the DSD signal is not converted to PCM within the DAC, therefore there is no volume control at all – except
for the analog reference levels, which can be used to set the coarse output level/volume. Left
with no volume control, the ADI-2 DAC intentionally deactivates the headphone outputs in DSD
Direct mode – the analog signal is only available at the rear outputs."

 

I'm not sure I can use "DSD Direct" since I need volume control at the DAC. Unless I set an analog reference level? I'll definitely check this out when I get home from work.

 

 

Thanks,

Spencer