HQ Player

[Miska]

1 hour ago, k6davis said:

My understanding about the T+A DAC8DSD is that if you give it a DSD signal of less than DSD512, it applies its own internal DSP upsampling to the signal. That was a main reason why it was always said that the T+A sounds very good at lower rates, but exceptional at DSD512. 

 

It never does anything to the DSD data, it is only a direct bit-perfect D/A converter...

[Miska]

2 hours ago, craighartley said:

i think you have a Windows server with 6700k and GTX 2080? Could you please tell me what’s the highest DSD rate you can go to with the EC modulators, both with 44.1 and hi res files (up to DXD)?

I’m thinking of upgrading my GTX 1080 to 2080 (possibly ti version) and want to get to at least DSD256 for my T&A DAC 8 DSD. 

 

I have 7700K + GTX2080. It is a Windows machine, so I have not tried EC modulators much on it yet. Only Windows machine I've extensively used those on is i7-6950X + GTX1080. On that one, DSD128 is highest it can reliably do, when moon is in good position and day is nice, it can do DSD256.

 

When you are offloading to GPU, source rate doesn't matter because modulator only sees the output rate and you are not loading CPU with the filters. For running filters, GPUs are nice and RTX is good improvement over GTX in that respect. GPU's won't make difference for running modulators.

 

[Miska]

10 minutes ago, k6davis said:

It may be totally in my head, but I was under the impression that most DAC chips operate internally at a single native rate (usually the highest rate they're capable of) and that they internally upsample anything less than that rate. Just like a 1080p TV or a 4K TV will convert everything to its native resolution.

 

By that logic, the T+A operates internally at DSD512. So when sending it DSD512, you get the inherent superiority of DSD512, plus bypassing any internal conversion - if it exists, plus HQP superior processing.

 

T+A doesn't have any DAC chip for DSD, it is a discrete implementation. Only the PCM side uses TI/BB PCM1795.

 

Also DAC chips that support direct DSD conversion don't do any rate conversion operations or such on DSD data, only for PCM sources.

 

[Miska]

One note about HQPlayer settings and the new EC modulators. Automatic parallelization of the new modulators require quite high number of cores. But setting Multicore DSP to enabled will force all multicore features on. So as usual, testing between enabled/auto Multicore DSP makes sense on edge cases some something just about doesn't work.

 

[StreamFidelity]

23 minutes ago, Miska said:

One note about HQPlayer settings and the new EC modulators. Automatic parallelization of the new modulators require quite high number of cores. But setting Multicore DSP to enabled will force all multicore features on. So as usual, testing between enabled/auto Multicore DSP makes sense on edge cases some something just about doesn't work.

 

 

When I enable hyper-threading in INTEL® CORE ™ i9-9900K, I get 16 virtual cores. Would that help?

[sdmarquart]

Hey guys. I just set up the Schiit Freya + tube preamp. Using HQPlayer SDM running through RME ADI-2 FS. The ADI is in DSD direct mode and have the ADI volume locked at 0 and sent to the Freya +. My HQP volume max is -3dB. First off, this thing sounds incredible in tube mode! Quick question, the volume definitely pumps when I have it up about 3/4 of the way but it’s pretty quiet till I get to the halfway point on the knob. I’ve actually had it full blast with no distortion. This may be how tube volume works at a it’s my first tube experience. My powered Focal Solo6be speakers are set at +4 dBu on the back. The other option is -10dBV but I’m sure that’s too much.

I’m actually blown away, but wanna make sure I have optimal volume settings. 

 

Thanks,

Spence

[rando]

27 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

When I enable hyper-threading in INTEL® CORE ™ i9-9900K, I get 16 virtual cores. Would that help?

 

That has not been advisable.  Suggest a look at Audiophile Optimizer pdf on setting up an audio PC and then doing a sitewide search for individual BIOS and OS options.  To help make informed decisions.

 

For instance you will discover SQ improvements from turning off Turbo Mode lauded until reaching a result where Miska point blank states HQP specific reasons for enabling it.

 

Wondering if Client saw a few refinements in newest desktop version to offset EC modulator.  Appears RAM in use fluctuates more than previously.  Difference in processor usage between instances with both windows open or just desktop seemed lower though? 

 

[StreamFidelity]

@rando

Users of the HQPlayer also have to look beyond the pure teaching of Audiophil Optimizer. This is my experience with the old AudioPC. 😉

 

On 5/8/2019 at 9:43 AM, StreamFidelity said:

Miska, that was the solution!

 

I followed some of the recommendations in the manual from Audiophil Optimizer (AO). Among other things, I had disabled Intel SpeedStep and Turbo Mode. But for DSD, these settings are important! 

 

 

Now CPU speed is 3 GHz instead of 1.7 GHz. DSD 512 now runs smoothly and without dropouts. CPU load is between 60% -70% depending on the source material. It sounds great. Thank you for informations. 

[craighartley]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

It never does anything to the DSD data, it is only a direct bit-perfect D/A converter...

It doesn’t upsample, but there is still filtering isn’t there? To quote

@OE333: ‘All this does not mean that there is no DSD processing done in the DAC. With the T+A True 1 Bit Converter each incoming DSD bit is converted by 16 balanced converter stages resulting in up to 3.1 billion conversions per second. This converter structure performs a filtering function and reduces high frequency noise  just likeadditional oversampling would do.’

 

And am I wrong in remembering that there is a difference  between 512 and 256 because of clocking in the DAC 8? 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

I'm sorry to report that everything is broken now with the hotfix... only PCM starts and it crashes. I can't even use Embedded normally, only PCM works. Will redo the NAA stick later but there's something wrong with 4.1. Too bad since it was set up in seconds to gorgeous sound this morning

[MikePid]

I’m enjoying trying out the new EC modulators, and settled on ASDM7EC for now. My 2012 rMBP can’t handle this at DSD256 so I have dropped down to 128.  I’ve tried playing a bit with enabling the virtual cores which seems to help keep fans quieter, and auto-rate but still not enough to allow Redbook or MQA to quad DSD without some stuttering. Using EXT2 filter but lighter filters still aren’t enough to keep the load down enough. 

 

Interestingly, I’ve had to lower volume to -5db, because the limiter kicked in a few times above that, which I’ve never had before. I had kept it at -3db forever. So maybe EC is extracting more peaks. 

 

Sounds fantastic, but a bit different. So many choices and they all are good!  Having the ability to change it up is like having a whole bunch of different DACs to swap in. 

 

Really enjoying my my recent ultraRendu addition. Zero hassles, so worth the extra cost for convenience for me. 

[Metaverse]

Excuse me.I have and question.

 

I want to make my PC(running HQplayer) connecting with NAA directly by cable without any router or switch.But the PC for running HQP need to control by the other PC in ethernet. So I set a brigde connection on HQP's PC that the HQP‘s PC and the naa PC can find each other and access each other’s shared folders.

 

All the things is normal , but the HQP . It can't find naa no longer.

 

How can I solve this problem? Thx

[LoryWiv]

Installed HQ Player Desktop 4.101, install went smoothly and it runs w/o glitches or crashes. Sonically, 1st impression is that I prefer ASDM7EC / poly-sinc-xtr-2s -->128 vs DSD 256-fs / closed-form-16M--> 256, which was my previous "go to". They two settings have about the same cpu / gpu utilization and I find ASDMEC "cleaner", with better detail, air and separation around instruments if that makes any sense. My listening setup was producing some upper midrange grain and looseness to the bass, both of which seems less evident with ASDMEC. It may be in part "expectation bias" which comes from trying something new, but the enjoyment is real nonetheless. Thank you, Miska, for your effort and commitment to continually improving HQ Player. It is a big part of what sets the player apart and makes the investment worthwhile.

[StreamFidelity]

I have enabled hyperthreading in INTEL® CORE ™ i9-9900K with 16 virtual cores. I would like to briefly describe my experiences with the shaper ASDM7EC. Stable and smoothly worked only DSD 128.

 

poly-sinc-ext2 + ASDM7EC + 44.1/16/2 -> DSD 128

Good sound but not as finely resolved as I know it otherwise.

 

closed-form + ASDM7EC + 44.1/16/2 -> DSD 128

Very pleasing and now finer dissolving. But bass was a bit flat for me.

 

closed-form-16m + ASDM7EC + 44.1/16/2 -> DSD 128

I was very surprised that it worked. But the sound was a bit restless in my ears.  In CPU history to recognize a sawtooth.

 

closed-form-fast + AMSDM7_512+fs + 44.1 / 16/2 -> DSD 512

My current favorite! A nice pronounced and precise bass. Wonderful transients. Great!

 

Conclusion

The new EC modulators are a good choice for anyone who only goes up to DSD 128 or 256 in any case. DSD 512 requires a monster machine. I agree with @juanitox that a higher DSD frequency is more important to the sound than the new EC modulators.

[Miska]

9 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

The new EC modulators are a good choice for anyone who only goes up to DSD 128 or 256 in any case. DSD 512 requires a monster machine. I agree with @juanitox that a higher DSD frequency is more important to the sound than the new EC modulators.

 

I'm not so sure about that between DSD256 and DSD512... I personally prefer DSD256 with the EC modulators rather than DSD512 with the earlier ones.

 

If you want to try how EC modulators sound like at higher rates, you can use HQPlayer4Pro trial to convert some test files and play those with Direct SDM enabled. You get only one minute of sound, but for simple comparison that could be enough.

 

P.S. Did you try DSD256 with "Multicore DSP" enabled/auto? You could also try with little simpler ASDM5EC modulator.

 

[blue2]

14 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

...

Conclusion

The new EC modulators are a good choice for anyone who only goes up to DSD 128 or 256 in any case. DSD 512 requires a monster machine. I agree with @juanitox that a higher DSD frequency is more important to the sound than the new EC modulator.

Nice info but was this with your ARMATURE Asterion (Holo Spring) DAC or  T+A MP 3000 HV?

[Miska]

10 hours ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

I'm sorry to report that everything is broken now with the hotfix... only PCM starts and it crashes. I can't even use Embedded normally, only PCM works. Will redo the NAA stick later but there's something wrong with 4.1. Too bad since it was set up in seconds to gorgeous sound this morning

 

I didn't release a new Embedded, so I don't know how that is related!?

 

[StreamFidelity]

3 minutes ago, blue2 said:

Nice info but was this with your ARMATURE Asterion (Holo Spring) DAC or  T+A MP 3000 HV?

 

I only use ARMATURE Asterion (Holo Spring) DAC. The T+A MP 3000 HV can not DSD, so I sold it. 😂

[Miska]

11 hours ago, craighartley said:

It doesn’t upsample, but there is still filtering isn’t there? To quote

@OE333: ‘All this does not mean that there is no DSD processing done in the DAC. With the T+A True 1 Bit Converter each incoming DSD bit is converted by 16 balanced converter stages resulting in up to 3.1 billion conversions per second. This converter structure performs a filtering function and reduces high frequency noise  just likeadditional oversampling would do.’

 

That's an analog filter. The discrete conversion stage is an analog filter in itself. This is somewhat similar to my DSC1 DAC design. That filter is there always and fully on purpose as part of the reconstruction filter. Frequency corner of this filter scales with the sampling rate, so it is always at same position relative to the sampling rate. When you double the sampling rate, the filter corner also moves up twice higher.

 

In addition, T+A has two alternative selectable analog filters following the conversion stage (clean and wide options).

 

Many SDM DAC conversion stages effectively work as a filter, like in TI/BB chips, AKM and Cirrus Logic.

 

11 hours ago, craighartley said:

And am I wrong in remembering that there is a difference  between 512 and 256 because of clocking in the DAC 8? 

 

Yes, at DSD512 rates there's no clock divider involved, because DSD bitrate and the clock frequency are 1:1. At DSD256 there's 1:2 clock division to make the DAC run at half speed.

 

[Miska]

11 hours ago, rando said:

Wondering if Client saw a few refinements in newest desktop version to offset EC modulator.  Appears RAM in use fluctuates more than previously.  Difference in processor usage between instances with both windows open or just desktop seemed lower though? 

 

The GUI library used for implementing Client was updated to latest version. But no other changes in that respect.

 

Search functionality in Client was changed from the "internet search" style of "any match" to more convenient "all match". So that when you perform a search on multiple terms, in order to have match all the conditions have to match, not just one of them. So if I search for example "jackson DSD64" only result I get is Thriller album.

 

[Miska]

12 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

My powered Focal Solo6be speakers are set at +4 dBu on the back. The other option is -10dBV but I’m sure that’s too much.

 

+4 dBu is higher level (lower input sensitivity) pro-audio reference level, while -10 dBV is the standard lower consumer equipment reference level (higher sensitivity input).

 

If you can get enough volume with +4 dBu and not getting background noise from the tube stages, it is all good. If you need more output volume, you can try -10 dBV.

 

https://flyingsound.net/general/line-level-inputs-the-difference-between-4-and-10-dbv/

 

[craighartley]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I'm not so sure about that between DSD256 and DSD512... I personally prefer DSD256 with the EC modulators rather than DSD512 with the earlier ones.

 

If you want to try how EC modulators sound like at higher rates, you can use HQPlayer4Pro trial to convert some test files and play those with Direct SDM enabled. You get only one minute of sound, but for simple comparison that could be enough.

 

P.S. Did you try DSD256 with "Multicore DSP" enabled/auto? You could also try with little simpler ASDM5EC modulator.

 

 I found I could do 256 most of the time with the ASDM7EC modulator on my 6700k and GTX1080 with the following settings (only the occasional stutter but good enough to judge the sound quality):

 

The stuttering gets MUCH worse if I grey out the CUDA offload checkbox.

 

I prefer these settings to 512 DSD and older modulators (through T&A DAC8 DSD). I haven't tried ASDM5EC.

 

 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I didn't release a new Embedded, so I don't know how that is related!?

 

Seemingly D4.1.01 ruined my NAA. I redid it, still no chance with D4 so I switched to E4, no good.

 

Now I have redone the usb stick and played directly E4 and it's back to normal

 

But I haven't solved the issue that makes D4.1.01 crash and corrupt the NAA while 4.1 was gorgeous and set up in seconds

[JTS]

16 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

First off, this thing sounds incredible in tube mode! Quick question, the volume definitely pumps when I have it up about 3/4 of the way but it’s pretty quiet till I get to the halfway point on the knob. I’ve actually had it full blast with no distortion. This may be how tube volume works at a it’s my first tube experience.

 

Great! When I was setting up my OG Freya, I contacted Schiit Audio to figure out the best way to get most out of the Freya. The engineer there told me that the higher I can get the volume knob up, the better the Freya will perform. You get away from any tube noise, and you use less resistors in the attenuation of the volume. It's worth contacting them to ask them some questions.

 

By the sounds of it, you have everything set up really well. You'll also note that the tubes will relax a bit after 100hrs or so.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

@MiskaI know you don't support WS2012 but can can you at least point me to 4.1.0 that I have deleted and can't find any longer?

 

not only the hotfix does not work but it breaks the NAA in such way that only PCM 48 is available thereafter either with D3 or E4.

of course if I redo the NAA stick and play directly D3 or E4 it works