HQ Player

[tobes]

@Miska I know this was mentioned somewhere above, but what was the reason HQP4 no longer passes through native PCM/DSD formats but has to be changed manually?

I mainly listen to PCM and don't have much DSD music, but this is a PITA.

HQP3 handled this seamlessly when set to auto - i.e. I could upsample PCM to PCM using filter of choice, and pass native DSD through to the DAC.

[DancingSea]

2 hours ago, shadowlight said:

 

You can ask him 😄. 

 

Edit: I know you are completely in the Apple eco system, but see if you can buy a used cheap Android tablet / phone to used the HQPDControl app, until something better comes along for Apple devices.  The other options is to leverage @Geoffrey Armstrong iTunes setup as the front end (I think you might have tried it and did not work out for you, cannot remember if you did or not).

 

Can you share how you normally listen to music?  Is it complete album or created playlist or random?  

 

Personally, I would like Miska to concentrate on the core functionality of the HQP and let other folks use the published API write the UI portion.  Just my opinion.

 

Do you use Audiravana right now in your setup?  If yes, have you thought about leveraging HQP Embedded using Miska's images, as the audio engine and Audiravana as the interface?  If folks are really looking for alternate UI interfaces for HQP, you have more options with HQP Embedded, compared to desktop.  With HQPe, you have the following options are remotes:

 

• Android - BubbleUPnP (supports Qobuz, Tidal), Linn Kazzo (with HQPe setup as OpenHome UPnP, I believe it supports Qobuz and Tidal), eos (JRiver remote), Roon
• iOS - JRemote (JRiver), mConnect (supports Qobuz, Tidal), Audiravana Remote, Roon

 

I have used / use depending on the mobile device that I have close to me when I am listening - BubbleUPnP, eos, Roon, JRemote, mConnect

 

The only remote that I have not tried is Audiravana.  For my personal use I prefer BubbleUPnP and mConnect.  I will most likely be ditching Roon from my setup when it comes up for renewal.

 

Thanks for all the great ideas!  I mostly listen to rated songs, either on a particular CD, or from a playlist.  I prefer to only listen to songs I like and have no issue with skipping songs on a CD that I don’t care for.

 

Hopefully Jussi will make an iOS remote, but my understanding is he doesn’t want to for some reason, and no one with those skills has stepped forward.  Yes, Geoffrey’s iTunes HQP script didn’t work, despite his best effort to help get it set up.  I’m hoping he and Bob Stern can get Swinsian integrated with HQP as Swinsian does a good job with DSD and FLAC files, things iTunes cannot.

 

The other things you mentioned are beyond my technical understanding.  I’ll have to review them at more depth.  I appreciate your time!

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

 

 

Respectfully, some may say HQPlayer is actually priced cheap, if you consider what it can do... beyond just up-sampling local files in 2-channel... 

 

I'd recommend getting HQP Embedded and just get Roon or Audirvana if you love the UI of these... either can play direct to HQP Embedded...

 

Audirvana isn't expensive... you can have the best of both worlds - a UI you like, playing to HQPe via UPnP...

 

 

 

Yes, I own Audirvana and like the latest version quite a bit.  I subscribed to Roon for a year and used HQP with it.  But I never got into Roon’s way of handling library management, and the magazine element got old after a short while.  Also, I found HQP sounds better on its own than through Roon, and Roon sounds awful on its own.  Thus I did not renew Roon.

 

I’m using Audirvana for most things, but still prefer HQP for my DSD library.  HQP does sound great, hence my continued interest.

[asdf1000]

3 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

Yes, I own Audirvana and like the latest version quite a bit.  I subscribed to Roon for a year and used HQP with it.  But I never got into Roon’s way of handling library management, and the magazine element got old after a short while.  Also, I found HQP sounds better on its own than through Roon, and Roon sounds awful on its own.  Thus I did not renew Roon.

 

I’m using Audirvana for most things, but still prefer HQP for my DSD library.  HQP does sound great, hence my continued interest.

 

No worries. But did you know you can combine Audirvana with HQP,  using Embedded (via UPnP)?

 

Free to try the Embedded version, 30 days

[Miska]

1 hour ago, tobes said:

@Miska I know this was mentioned somewhere above, but what was the reason HQP4 no longer passes through native PCM/DSD formats but has to be changed manually?

I mainly listen to PCM and don't have much DSD music, but this is a PITA.

HQP3 handled this seamlessly when set to auto - i.e. I could upsample PCM to PCM using filter of choice, and pass native DSD through to the DAC.

 

One unrelated change in 4.0.2 accidentally broke the automatic switching. I have already fixed it for upcoming 4.0.3...

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, lucretius said:

It has nothing to do with amplifier volume.  It's a DSP setting encoded in the music file that affects volume. Often the producers of music set the loudness peak for just under or at 0.0 dBFS (range is -100 to 0.0).  So when upsampling is performed, there are rounding errors causing the new loudness peak to theoretically be higher than 0.0; however, the actual limit to this digital volume is 0.0.; therefore, the difference between the theoretical peak and 0.0 is clipping. It would be easier to visualize on screen were the amplitude of the soundwave is increased and more of it hits the 0.0 mark/line. So the recommendation is to set the max. volume at -3.0, to avoid this clipping. 

 

Just a small correction...

 

Not rounding errors, but lot of content has been run through "normalize" function where gain is adjusted such that maximum sample values become exactly 0.0 dBFS. However, the maximum sample value is not necessarily locate exactly at the peak point of the original/reconstructed waveform (especially in RedBook, samples are sparsely located for higher frequency waveform), but somewhere on side of it. When the actual waveform is reconstructed, it will thus reach higher than this 0 dBFS point. Higher the oversampling ratio, more likely it is that the new samples located between the original ones will appear higher; this is sometimes called "inter-sample overs".

 

Another case where the new samples will appear higher is when source material contains digital clipping (very usual for RedBook content), and oversampling digital filter at least partially recovers the clipped waveform tops.

 

In DAC chips, some chips have some amount of digital headroom for their digital filters as well, while some don't and will just clip the results at 0 dBFS if original data is sent to the DAC chip as is.

 

[Miska]

7 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

Well, I got it working but something is still off a bit.

 

Here's my new HQP settings as I changed the bit rate limit to 48k x250. Now everything in Roon plays back at 768000 Hz.

 

 

For ADI-2, tick the "48k DSD" box and set DSD rate limit to 48k x256. You can then have "Adaptive rate" set to grayed or checked.

 

[sdmarquart]

16 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

For ADI-2, tick the "48k DSD" box and set DSD rate limit to 48k x256. You can then have "Adaptive rate" set to grayed or checked.

 

Wow! That worked. Now it's all playing at 768000 hz. I assume that's the best output I can get for Roon. Thank you Miska! Appreciate the feedback.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

10 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Client comes along with HQPlayer Desktop and is part of it. People were asking for remote control application, so now it's there...

 

remote on Windows tablet only or did I miss something?

[sdmarquart]

35 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

For ADI-2, tick the "48k DSD" box and set DSD rate limit to 48k x256. You can then have "Adaptive rate" set to grayed or checked.

 

 I clicked the "adaptive rate". It's working fine! Is that the preferred setting? Otherwise it upsamples to 768000 for everything. Think it's best to do 705 for lower incoming rates?

 

Thanks,

Spence

[Le Concombre Masqué]

1 hour ago, DancingSea said:

 

Thanks for all the great ideas!  I mostly listen to rated songs, either on a particular CD, or from a playlist.  I prefer to only listen to songs I like and have no issue with skipping songs on a CD that I don’t care for.

 

Hopefully Jussi will make an iOS remote, but my understanding is he doesn’t want to for some reason, and no one with those skills has stepped forward.  Yes, Geoffrey’s iTunes HQP script didn’t work, despite his best effort to help get it set up.  I’m hoping he and Bob Stern can get Swinsian integrated with HQP as Swinsian does a good job with DSD and FLAC files, things iTunes cannot.

 

The other things you mentioned are beyond my technical understanding.  I’ll have to review them at more depth.  I appreciate your time!

Interesting ; always wondered what was the point of Library management and all the fuss about interfaces when D&Ding is so handy dandy; rated songs... now I know

[Le Concombre Masqué]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

 

No worries. But did you know you can combine Audirvana with HQP,  using Embedded (via UPnP)?

 

Free to try the Embedded version, 30 days

can't find where to download it and HQPOs, can't see information about cost either

Did I read correctly that I would not have any special installation to make on my Mac and that I just could boot from a SD card and use Embedded?

That would make more sense than Desktop on a WS2012 partition that exists for the sole purpose of running HQP

Please, how do I try?

[bibo01]

1 hour ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

can't find where to download it and HQPOs, can't see information about cost either

Did I read correctly that I would not have any special installation to make on my Mac and that I just could boot from a SD card and use Embedded?

That would make more sense than Desktop on a WS2012 partition that exists for the sole purpose of running HQP

Please, how do I try?

https://www.signalyst.com/custom.html

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

can't find where to download it and HQPOs, can't see information about cost either

Did I read correctly that I would not have any special installation to make on my Mac and that I just could boot from a SD card and use Embedded?

That would make more sense than Desktop on a WS2012 partition that exists for the sole purpose of running HQP

Please, how do I try?

 

In addition to the above link by @bibo01 see here: https://www.signalyst.com/embedded-install.html?

 

See the section "Downloading and configuring bootable image"

 

You can burn the image to USB stick (use etcher for example) and boot from USB. This way your Mac installation will not be affected at all.

 

Of course you will then need a different computer to run your playback/control software, like Roon/Audirvana/mConnect Player/Bubble UPnP/whatever

 

Price for Embedded is there in webshop: https://www.signalyst.com/webshop.html

 

But try the 30 day trial for free first.

 

[Ales Prochazka]

8 hours ago, shadowlight said:

@Ales Prochazka, might update HQPDControl to add support for Qobuz and Tidal if there is enough demand.  I believe the biggest issue for him might be ability to test the Tidal/Qobuz integration based on his location (service not available).  I know @Miska currently does not have the ability to get Qobuz in Finland with out VPN (which might be locked down by Qobuz now).

 

The other option is to ask the author of Audiravana to see if he can add support for the HQP Desktop using the hqpcontrol commands and add functionality the same way that UPnP setup works.

 

@Miska, is there away to leverage loopback input options under Mac OS or is it strictly Windows and Linux options?  Previously you had mentioned that adding UPnP support under Windows is difficult due to missing libraries/functionalities but does similar issue exists for MacOS also?

 

The addition of this functionality is not planned.

Please understand that this is not my main activity.
The goal was to create a simple remote control for HQPlayer with focus on local file playback.

[lucretius]

6 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Just a small correction...

 

Not rounding errors, but lot of content has been run through "normalize" function where gain is adjusted such that maximum sample values become exactly 0.0 dBFS. However, the maximum sample value is not necessarily locate exactly at the peak point of the original/reconstructed waveform (especially in RedBook, samples are sparsely located for higher frequency waveform), but somewhere on side of it. When the actual waveform is reconstructed, it will thus reach higher than this 0 dBFS point. Higher the oversampling ratio, more likely it is that the new samples located between the original ones will appear higher; this is sometimes called "inter-sample overs".

 

Another case where the new samples will appear higher is when source material contains digital clipping (very usual for RedBook content), and oversampling digital filter at least partially recovers the clipped waveform tops.

 

In DAC chips, some chips have some amount of digital headroom for their digital filters as well, while some don't and will just clip the results at 0 dBFS if original data is sent to the DAC chip as is.

 

 

Thanks, Miska!

 

Also, see:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/intersample-overs-in-cd-recordings

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

 I clicked the "adaptive rate". It's working fine! Is that the preferred setting? Otherwise it upsamples to 768000 for everything. Think it's best to do 705 for lower incoming rates?

 

Technically both give equally good results, or the 768k a little bit better since it is higher rate. But down side is that conversion from 44.1k-family to 768k consumes more CPU and RAM resources. For PCM outputs this may not be notable, but for PCM to DSD conversion the processing load difference may become huge.

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

remote on Windows tablet only or did I miss something?

 

Windows, macOS or Linux tablet/computer. Until I get around to build it for iOS and Android as well...

 

[Eugene Muzychenko]

On 5/17/2019 at 1:37 PM, Miska said:

I recommend to just try to set VAC as input device in HQPlayer and then try to process from that input to some output (source URI selection).

 

I installed 4.02, but it's not obvious how to force it to record from a live audio endpoint instead of a file.

 

As soon as I select WASAPI in either input or output section (prior to choosing a particular endpoint/device), I immediately get the "Input and output devices cannot be the same!" error message that re-appears immediately as I click "OK".

 

Setting either or virtual hardware endpoints as input and output, specifying "input:default/48000/2" or "audio:default/48000/2", changing Windows default audio endpoints, I cannot get HQ Player to record. As I click "Play", the appropriate icon becomes active, but nothing else changes in the window. Player window seems to be frozen until I click "Stop".

 

Last log messages are the following:

 

& 2019/05/19 14:10:22 Play
# 2019/05/19 14:10:22 clMainWindow::startPlay(): clHQPlayerEngine::Play(): Transport == NULL

 

If Virtual Cable endpoint is selected for input, VAC Control Panel shows a very short (less than a second) streaming, then the stream terminates.

 

Maybe I'm missing something important, but a quick read of the manual didn't help. Could you please tell what I'm doing wrong?

And should the player with live audio input work as a repeater, sending recorded data directly to the output endpoint?

[Le Concombre Masqué]

4 hours ago, bibo01 said:

https://www.signalyst.com/custom.html

I still don't see where to get it from this very page ; got it from Em2016 however

[sdmarquart]

55 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Technically both give equally good results, or the 768k a little bit better since it is higher rate. But down side is that conversion from 44.1k-family to 768k consumes more CPU and RAM resources. For PCM outputs this may not be notable, but for PCM to DSD conversion the processing load difference may become huge.

 

Thanks Miska. With adaptive rate checked, I'm using rough 30% CPU. I realize my memory use is high but that's because of my very large Roon library.

 

 

 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

5 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

In addition to the above link by @bibo01 see here: https://www.signalyst.com/embedded-install.html?

 

See the section "Downloading and configuring bootable image"

 

You can burn the image to USB stick (use etcher for example) and boot from USB. This way your Mac installation will not be affected at all.

 

Of course you will then need a different computer to run your playback/control software, like Roon/Audirvana/mConnect Player/Bubble UPnP/whatever

 

Price for Embedded is there in webshop: https://www.signalyst.com/webshop.html

 

But try the 30 day trial for free first.

 

since I don't have a second computer at hand I tried the "login as" root""option and as confessed in the attached image then I'm at lost (0 Linux experience)

[asdf1000]

11 minutes ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

since I don't have a second computer at hand

 

When I mentioned 2nd computer I mentioned it's "to run your playback/control software, like Roon/Audirvana/mConnect Player/Bubble UPnP/whatever"

 

You need to use the HQPe computer to change the default username and password. Your commands in the screenshot are not like the commands in the link I sent you above... Anyway you can change the password later.

 

To access the HQPe config page, go to a different device web browser, to the address: "IP_address:8088/config"

 

username is hqplayer and password is password (you can change these later using instructions at the link I sent you above)

[Le Concombre Masqué]

48 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

When I mentioned 2nd computer I mentioned it's "to run your playback/control software, like Roon/Audirvana/mConnect Player/Bubble UPnP/whatever"

 

You need to use the HQPe computer to change the default username and password. Your commands in the screenshot are not like the commands in the link I sent you above... Anyway you can change the password later.

 

To access the HQPe config page, go to a different device web browser, to the address: "IP_address:8088/config"

 

username is hqplayer and password is password (you can change these later using instructions at the link I sent you above)

Thank you !

Better look dumb than remain stuck : After I have downloaded the hqplayer-embedded image and wrote the image on a flash drive (and got to the point pictured above) I don't need to download and install libgmpris package. And then the hqplayerd package.Right?

Or do I?

 

[Outlaw]

19 hours ago, craighartley said:

I have the same issue. Always had it I think but it may be worse on 4.0.1 than 3. 

I wish this could be resolved.Hoping it worked properly in 4.0.1 but it doesnt.