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Hey guys. I thought I had my ADI-2 DAC w/HQPlayer and Roon working great on my Windows 10 machine. This includes converting everything to DSD using ASIO Madiface at 705600 Hz.

 

During my testing these output formats work fine: All 16 bit, all DSD and PCM 24/44, 24/88.2. 24/176.4.

 

But these formats won't play: PCM 24/96 and PCM 24/192.

 

Please help on why I can't get the 96 and 192 to play corrrectly.

 

Thanks,

Spence

 

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43 minutes ago, juanitox said:

i'm gona cry 🤣

 

The main point is that we can create an environment in which diverse opinions are welcome, and it’s ok to disagree, but to do so without denigrating others.  

 

I can live without the Roon bling.  My sense of value suggests HQPlayer desktop would benefit from a better library system, a Jussi created iPad remote, and Quboz/ Tidal integration. 

 

In today’s playback software landscape, these seem like basic requests that all, rich or poor, can rally behind for the benefit of all humanity. I have a dream!

 

Ok, got a little carried away 😎

 

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5 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

The main point is that we can create an environment in which diverse opinions are welcome, and it’s ok to disagree, but to do so without denigrating others.  

 

 

Why you do not let Miska then have diverse opinion about how software player may look?)

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37 minutes ago, sdmarquart said:

Hey guys. I thought I had my ADI-2 DAC w/HQPlayer and Roon working great on my Windows 10 machine. This includes converting everything to DSD using ASIO Madiface at 705600 Hz.

 

During my testing these output formats work fine: All 16 bit, all DSD and PCM 24/44, 24/88.2. 24/176.4.

 

But these formats won't play: PCM 24/96 and PCM 24/192.

 

Please help on why I can't get the 96 and 192 to play corrrectly.

 

Thanks,

Spence

 

Well, I got it working but something is still off a bit.

 

Here's my new HQP settings as I changed the bit rate limit to 48k x250. Now everything in Roon plays back at 768000 Hz.

HPPlayerSettings_ADI_ASIO_051919.thumb.jpg.439f5fe566c16eb0d20bdaf5c2550e51.jpg

 

Here's what the main HQ Player front looks like:

HPPlayerSettings_FrontUI_051819.thumb.jpg.799568e544cccb543f404cfbe386e939.jpg

 

Looks great with the Red knob sitting where it needs to be. But if I close down and re-open HQP I now get this:

HPPlayerSettings_BadUI_051819.thumb.jpg.e12818f1bc45af525b2a0a8d34bc87ad.jpg

 

This is bad since nothing works and why is the knob sitting at that level? I have to go back in to the settings and change the bit rate limit to 48k x 256 and then change it to 48k x250 and it holds the setting. But this is rather annoying since I need to shut down HQP on occasion and why does it change?

 

Hey, at least everything is playing but I appreciate any info.

 

Thanks,

Spence

 

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2 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

Well, I got it working but something is still off a bit.

 

Here's my new HQP settings as I changed the bit rate limit to 48k x250. Now everything in Roon plays back at 768000 Hz.

HPPlayerSettings_ADI_ASIO_051919.thumb.jpg.439f5fe566c16eb0d20bdaf5c2550e51.jpg

 

Here's what the main HQ Player front looks like:

HPPlayerSettings_FrontUI_051819.thumb.jpg.799568e544cccb543f404cfbe386e939.jpg

 

Looks great with the Red knob sitting where it needs to be. But if I close down and re-open HQP I now get this:

HPPlayerSettings_BadUI_051819.thumb.jpg.e12818f1bc45af525b2a0a8d34bc87ad.jpg

 

This is bad since nothing works and why is the knob sitting at that level? I have to go back in to the settings and change the bit rate limit to 48k x 256 and then change it to 48k x250 and it holds the setting. But this is rather annoying since I need to shut down HQP on occasion and why does it change?

 

Hey, at least everything is playing but I appreciate any info.

 

Thanks,

Spence

 

 

The volume control should not be red. That indicates that you have volume for SDM set too high, which will result in clipping. Miska recommends that you set it to -3 or lower. From p. 3 of the HQPlayer Desktop User Manual:

 

Note! Overloading the delta-sigma modulator in SDM mode will cause audible noises. It is recommended to keep software volume at max -3 dB setting or lower when using PCM to SDM conversion to avoid overloading the delta-sigma modulator. Maximum modulation depth is monitored and when necessary limited to 50% as per SACD specification.

 

However, that does not explain why 24/96 and 24/192 won't play. Have you tried setting bit rate to 48x256 and leaving adaptive output rate unchecked?

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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41 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

The volume control should not be red. That indicates that you have volume for SDM set too high, which will result in clipping. Miska recommends that you set it to -3 or lower. From p. 3 of the HQPlayer Desktop User Manual:

 

Note! Overloading the delta-sigma modulator in SDM mode will cause audible noises. It is recommended to keep software volume at max -3 dB setting or lower when using PCM to SDM conversion to avoid overloading the delta-sigma modulator. Maximum modulation depth is monitored and when necessary limited to 50% as per SACD specification.

 

However, I doubt that is the reason that 24/96 and 24/192 won't play. Have you tried setting bit rate to 48x256 and leaving adaptive output rate unchecked?

Wait, red is bad?? I just thought it would effect really high volume if you go to 0. But otherwise, no clipping at a decent volume. What am I missing? Everything sounds great at that setting. Please elaborate??

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4 minutes ago, sdmarquart said:

Wait, red is bad?? I had no idea. Everything sounds great at that setting. Please elaborate??

K. Now it works at the -3db setting. Crazy but earlier 48K x256 wouldn't work for 24/96 or 24/192 but now it's working at this setting. So, I'm all good!!!

 

Thanks,

Spence

 

HPPlayerSettings_FrontUI_Fixed.thumb.jpg.59a8e35d9fac373ba3631fd6f31848fc.jpg

HPPlayerSettings_FrontUI_Fixed.jpg

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7 hours ago, DancingSea said:

 

Maybe he would have mercy and create an iOS remote too 🙏

 

You can ask him 😄

 

Edit: I know you are completely in the Apple eco system, but see if you can buy a used cheap Android tablet / phone to used the HQPDControl app, until something better comes along for Apple devices.  The other options is to leverage @Geoffrey Armstrong iTunes setup as the front end (I think you might have tried it and did not work out for you, cannot remember if you did or not).

 

Can you share how you normally listen to music?  Is it complete album or created playlist or random?  

 

Personally, I would like Miska to concentrate on the core functionality of the HQP and let other folks use the published API write the UI portion.  Just my opinion.

 

Do you use Audiravana right now in your setup?  If yes, have you thought about leveraging HQP Embedded using Miska's images, as the audio engine and Audiravana as the interface?  If folks are really looking for alternate UI interfaces for HQP, you have more options with HQP Embedded, compared to desktop.  With HQPe, you have the following options are remotes:

 

  • Android - BubbleUPnP (supports Qobuz, Tidal), Linn Kazzo (with HQPe setup as OpenHome UPnP, I believe it supports Qobuz and Tidal), eos (JRiver remote), Roon
  • iOS - JRemote (JRiver), mConnect (supports Qobuz, Tidal), Audiravana Remote, Roon

 

I have used / use depending on the mobile device that I have close to me when I am listening - BubbleUPnP, eos, Roon, JRemote, mConnect

 

The only remote that I have not tried is Audiravana.  For my personal use I prefer BubbleUPnP and mConnect.  I will most likely be ditching Roon from my setup when it comes up for renewal.

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7 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

Can HQPlayer handle a 12 core CPU, for example Intel Core i9-9920X @ 3.50GHz?

I am using one of the Dell Poweredge server with quad x 6 core cpu's with out any problems for HQP Embedded version and it had no problems handing the desktop version either when I had the server configured as Win 2016 server OS.

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10 hours ago, shadowlight said:

For folks who are looking for better front end for desktop and do not mind using Android as a remote control, look into HQPDControl.  The developer for the software is active on this thread.

 

 

 

I've found HQPDControl to work flawlessly from my Android phone - though in my case I prefer the screen 'real estate' offered by my Mac system.

 

3 hours ago, DancingSea said:

I can live without the Roon bling.  My sense of value suggests HQPlayer desktop would benefit from a better library system, a Jussi created iPad remote, and Quboz/ Tidal integration. 

 

Yes, I think HQP would be far more appealing to many more users if it offered Tidal/Qobuz integration on the Client.

I have a lifetime Roon subscription but still prefer the SQ with HQP4/Client when playing back local files.

Mac M1 Mini RoonServer/HQPlayer> Holo May L2 > Benchmark HPA4

Headphones: Focal Utopia(2016), Sennheiser HD600, AKG K712 Pro
Speakers: ATC SCM100ASLT (active)
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10 hours ago, shadowlight said:

For folks who are looking for better front end for desktop and do not mind using Android as a remote control, look into HQPDControl.  The developer for the software is active on this thread.

 

I completely agree. I don't do streaming and therefore I can't see the justification for the cost of Roon as an interface. As a user of HQPlayer, you are not using Roon's player or its upsampling capabilities. HQPDcontrol is an Android app and, unlike Roon, it doesn't consume significant computer resources on your server. And, it's free. I actually prefer its album view to that of Roon.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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@Ales Prochazka, might update HQPDControl to add support for Qobuz and Tidal if there is enough demand.  I believe the biggest issue for him might be ability to test the Tidal/Qobuz integration based on his location (service not available).  I know @Miska currently does not have the ability to get Qobuz in Finland with out VPN (which might be locked down by Qobuz now).

 

The other option is to ask the author of Audiravana to see if he can add support for the HQP Desktop using the hqpcontrol commands and add functionality the same way that UPnP setup works.

 

@Miska, is there away to leverage loopback input options under Mac OS or is it strictly Windows and Linux options?  Previously you had mentioned that adding UPnP support under Windows is difficult due to missing libraries/functionalities but does similar issue exists for MacOS also?

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1 hour ago, Allan F said:

 

The volume control should not be red. That indicates that you have volume for SDM set too high, which will result in clipping. Miska recommends that you set it to -3 or lower. From p. 3 of the HQPlayer Desktop User Manual:

 

Note! Overloading the delta-sigma modulator in SDM mode will cause audible noises. It is recommended to keep software volume at max -3 dB setting or lower when using PCM to SDM conversion to avoid overloading the delta-sigma modulator. Maximum modulation depth is monitored and when necessary limited to 50% as per SACD specification.

 

However, that does not explain why 24/96 and 24/192 won't play. Have you tried setting bit rate to 48x256 and leaving adaptive output rate unchecked?

Regarding the volume level, there are many variables. Example, my Focal solo6 be’s have the option to adjust the gain +6dB. Since I lowered my overall volume I wonder if I should enable that? I was just rocking out to Van Halen’s, “Fair Warning” and I had the volume cranked to -1db. No distortion since it was mastered properly. Just saying that having my volume setting an extra -3db shouldn’t break the bank. But strangely, adjusting the volume to -3db fixed my problem. 

 

Weird?

 

thanks,

Spence

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2 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

K. Now it works at the -3db setting. Crazy but earlier 48K x256 wouldn't work for 24/96 or 24/192 but now it's working at this setting. So, I'm all good!!!

 

Thanks,

Spence

 

HPPlayerSettings_FrontUI_Fixed.thumb.jpg.59a8e35d9fac373ba3631fd6f31848fc.jpg

HPPlayerSettings_FrontUI_Fixed.jpg

 

I see you changed the bit rate from 48k x250 to 48k x256 and you unchecked "Adaptive output rate".

mQa is dead!

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8 hours ago, DancingSea said:

It’s clear the visuals are not your forte, maybe one day you can hire a designer to help you upgrade HQPlayer’s look to match the new price 😇

 

8 hours ago, DancingSea said:

You have a fantastic sound engine.  If you could combine the library functionality of Swinsian, the look of Roon/A+, and a Miska created iOS/ android remote, with your sound engine, then you’d have a product worth the new high price. 

 

Respectfully, some may say HQPlayer is actually priced cheap, if you consider what it can do... beyond just up-sampling local files in 2-channel... 

 

I'd recommend getting HQP Embedded and just get Roon or Audirvana if you love the UI of these... either can play direct to HQP Embedded...

 

Audirvana isn't expensive... you can have the best of both worlds - a UI you like, playing to HQPe via UPnP...

 

 

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52 minutes ago, shadowlight said:

@Ales Prochazka, might update HQPDControl to add support for Qobuz and Tidal if there is enough demand.

 

That would be a great addition and a functionality I'd be happy to pay for (Tidal in my case). 

Mac M1 Mini RoonServer/HQPlayer> Holo May L2 > Benchmark HPA4

Headphones: Focal Utopia(2016), Sennheiser HD600, AKG K712 Pro
Speakers: ATC SCM100ASLT (active)
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3 minutes ago, sdmarquart said:

Yes. I guess that fixed it???

 

Don't question it. If everything is working properly now, just keep both of those setting changes. :)

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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1 hour ago, sdmarquart said:

Regarding the volume level, there are many variables. Example, my Focal solo6 be’s have the option to adjust the gain +6dB. Since I lowered my overall volume I wonder if I should enable that? I was just rocking out to Van Halen’s, “Fair Warning” and I had the volume cranked to -1db. No distortion since it was mastered properly. Just saying that having my volume setting an extra -3db shouldn’t break the bank. But strangely, adjusting the volume to -3db fixed my problem. 

 

Weird?

 

thanks,

Spence

 

It has nothing to do with amplifier volume.  It's a DSP setting encoded in the music file that affects volume. Often the producers of music set the loudness peak for just under or at 0.0 dBFS (range is -100 to 0.0).  So when upsampling is performed, there are rounding errors causing the new loudness peak to theoretically be higher than 0.0; however, the actual limit to this digital volume is 0.0.; therefore, the difference between the theoretical peak and 0.0 is clipping. It would be easier to visualize on screen were the amplitude of the soundwave is increased and more of it hits the 0.0 mark/line. So the recommendation is to set the max. volume at -3.0, to avoid this clipping. 

 

mQa is dead!

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2 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

It has nothing to do with amplifier volume.  It's a DSP setting encoded in the music file that affects volume. Often the producers of music set the loudness peak for just under or at 0.0 dBFS (range is -100 to 0.0).  So when upsampling is performed, there are rounding errors causing the new loudness peak to  theoretically be higher than 0.0; however, the limit to this digital volume is 0.0.; therefore the difference between the theoretical peak and 0.0 is clipping. It would be easier to visualize on screen were the amplitude of the soundwave is increased and more of it hits the 0.0 mark. So the recommendation is to set the max. volume at -3.0.  

 

Omg. You’re kinda blowing my mind. A lot to gather there. But I do fancy myself a producer/mixer/masterer type who wants the best dynamic range possible. This new setting is working perfectly for my needs. And I must say I appreciate all the feedback. You guys are too kind and it’s saved me a lot of headache. So know it’s really appreciated!

 

thanks,

Spence

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1 hour ago, shadowlight said:

@Miska, is there away to leverage loopback input options under Mac OS or is it strictly Windows and Linux options?  Previously you had mentioned that adding UPnP support under Windows is difficult due to missing libraries/functionalities but does similar issue exists for MacOS also?

 

I'm not Miska, but I and a couple of others have posted here about using Rogue Amoeba Loopback to pipe the output of a music player app (Idagio, Qobuz, etc) or a web browser to HQP4.  The only limitation is that HQP4 requires manually setting its input sample rate to match the source..

HQPlayer (on 3.8 GHz 8-core i7 iMac 2020) > NAA (on 2012 Mac Mini i7) > RME ADI-2 v2 > Benchmark AHB-2 > Thiel 3.7

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