HQ Player

[Bob Stern]

49 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

It [the impulse response resampled to match the music source sample rate] is not saved anywhere as that operation is really fast...

 

So, the real-time convolution of the music during playback does not load the CPU differently depending on whether the impulse response file matches the sample rate of the music source?  In other words, there is no advantage for the user to create a separate impulse response file for each sample rate?  

 

(If so, the user guide is in error.)

[Miska]

18 minutes ago, Bob Stern said:

So, the real-time convolution of the music during playback does not load the CPU differently depending on whether the impulse response file matches the sample rate of the music source?  In other words, there is no advantage for the user to create a separate impulse response file for each sample rate?  

 

Yes it does, depending on the sampling rate. But not because of scaling the impulse response to match the rate which is one time operation at the beginning. But because playback time processing load is function of sampling rate, higher the sampling rate, higher the load. Creating separate impulse response for each sample rate is the same thing so it doesn't change anything. So just create impulse response for high as possible sampling rate and that's it... It is better to scale it down than up.

[Bob Stern]

Thanks, Miska — that answers my questions.

 

I would suggest splitting the paragraph I quoted from the user guide into two paragraphs to clarify that the warning regarding CPU load is based only on the sample rate of music source, not the impulse response:

 

Original single paragraph:  

"Note! When source material sampling rate differs from the impulse sampling rate, impulse responses will be scaled to the source material's sampling rate. This can have a huge impact on CPU load ..."

 

Suggested two paragraphs:

 

"When source material sampling rate differs from the impulse response sampling rate, impulse responses will be scaled to the source material's sampling rate.  For maximum filter resolution, it is best to save an impulse response at the highest possible sample rate and let HQP downsample it as needed to match the source material sampling rate."

 

"Note! The CPU load greatly increases with the source material sampling rate and the length of the impulse response."

[dean70]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Yes it does, depending on the sampling rate. But not because of scaling the impulse response to match the rate which is one time operation at the beginning. But because playback time processing load is function of sampling rate, higher the sampling rate, higher the load. Creating separate impulse response for each sample rate is the same thing so it doesn't change anything. So just create impulse response for high as possible sampling rate and that's it... It is better to scale it down than up.

How does the impulse response scale when playing DSD content? Is there a "best-fit" impulse wav file sample rate for a given DSD rate?

[Miska]

10 hours ago, Bob Stern said:

Thanks, Miska — that answers my questions.

 

I would suggest splitting the paragraph I quoted from the user guide into two paragraphs to clarify that the warning regarding CPU load is based only on the sample rate of music source, not the impulse response:

 

 

Thanks, I'll change the wording in manual along those lines.

[Miska]

8 hours ago, dean70 said:

How does the impulse response scale when playing DSD content? Is there a "best-fit" impulse wav file sample rate for a given DSD rate?

 

Also for those cases as "hires" as possible. For example Acourate can now generate correction filters at 352.8/384k sampling rate, that is good choice because it certainly covers the entire bandwidth any musical content could have. Going above that is not meaningful. 176.4/192k already covers something like 99% of content.

 

At those rates, there's no need to use the "HF Expand" feature in HQPlayer. Acourate itself has corresponding option when generating the correction filter and it is better done there at the time when the filter is created.

 

[pkane2001]

14 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

I do have one quick question before I dive into the rabbit hole:  will my DSD files be played in native format or converted to WAV files?

 

The PC output will be sent to the DAC in the format that you chose in HQP, DSD or PCM. The filters are applied to the data before the output is generated.

 

[orgel]

On 4/17/2017 at 4:24 PM, jtwrace said:

Thanks!  Any reason you haven't gone for the PP? 

@orgel lets hear what you think!  

(Sorry for the belated response.)

 

I am really enjoying the e32/PlayPoint combo — it sounds, to my ears, just like what I'm always going for, and that's as close to completely neutral as possible. Configuring the two devices is very, very easy — you can see that exaSound devoted a lot of thought to making them this way, especially the PlayPoint. Also, for someone who uses Roon and HQPlayer together, this is a really good choice, IMO. I can switch between using the PlayPoint as an HQP NAA and a Roon endpoint just by switching zones in the Roon control app.

 

For anyone interested, Vade Forrester has a recent, thorough review of the combo in The Absolute Sound, Steven Plaskin has a detailed review of the e32 on AudioStream (which highlights use with HQP), and of course there's Chris's excellent write-up of the PlayPoint.

[auricgoldfinger]

6 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

 

The PC output will be sent to the DAC in the format that you chose in HQP, DSD or PCM. The filters are applied to the data before the output is generated.

 

 

That's what I was hoping you'd say.  :-) 

 

Thanks.

[mirekti]

On 4/21/2017 at 2:58 AM, Miska said:

 

With those rates listed it should work up to DSD128 (possibly including 48x128)... Maybe some driver or firmware bug that causes it to lose those higher rates at some point. At least it is good to check that the device is not set as default audio output device for Windows. Multiple applications accessing the device simultaneously may cause strange behavior if the drivers are not specifically prepared to deal with such situations gracefully.

 

If you can find some systematic sequence of actions which causes the problem of lost rates, you could report that to the manufacturer.

 

I think I found a systematic sequence how to recover it.  

I would just like to make sure all is good from the HQPlayer side. The only way to recover from this state also includes HQPlayer.
Namely, I need to power off LIO, but I also need to exit from HQPlayer, turn it on again and when I see the error message the device is not ready, I exit HQPlayer again, power on LIO, start HQPlayer which defaults with it settings and when I pick SDM all is fine.
In case I only exit HQPlayer and launch HQPlayer again, it will not complain about the device (as LIO is still on), but it will load its last configuration (which is SDM), however it is not able to use it as it only gets 41000 and 48000 as seen in the previous logs.

 

Let me just sum up the sequence line by line to help with reading the mess I wrote above. 

System and issue:
1. Due to some restart in the chain DSD reproduction is not possible. 
2. The chain consist of Win 10 PC with HQPlayer and Vinnie Rossi LIO

How to recover it:
1. Turn LIO off

2. Exit HQPlayer

3. Start HQPlayer -> it reports the device is missing and gives some default settings. Something happens here which resets everything and make it work fine on the next try.

4. Turn LIO on

5. Start HQPlayer

6. Adjust settings on HQPlayer from Auto to SDM -> HQPlayer restores last SDM setting (poly-sinc-short-mp etc.)
7. Playback of DSD128 is ok either directly from HQPlayer or via Roon

Is there anything else what we could check on HQPlayer?
Is there a way to reset the connection to the device from HQPlayer the same way it is done in step 3?
If not, what logs should I actually collect and use in case I will need to reach out to the USB drivers' maker?

Thanks a lot!!!  

[Dr Tone]

@mirekti What kind of drivers does your DAC have?  WASAPI & ASIO?  Have you tried one over the other?

 

Have you tried replacing the manufacturers driver with the new Microsoft USB 2.0 audio driver driver that came with Windows 10 Creators update?

[Dr Tone]

@Samuel T Cogley I had a chance to send DSD128 to the Ayre Codex and I definitely like it more than the internal filtering.  I wish we knew what Ayre is doing internally with DSD128 content exactly.

 

poly-sinc-xtr/ASDM7

 

It also solved about 3 issues with my crappy McIntosh DAC so it's staying in my system until I can research and try to find something better.

[Miska]

1 hour ago, mirekti said:

How to recover it:
1. Turn LIO off

2. Exit HQPlayer

3. Start HQPlayer -> it reports the device is missing and gives some default settings. Something happens here which resets everything and make it work fine on the next try.

4. Turn LIO on

5. Start HQPlayer

6. Adjust settings on HQPlayer from Auto to SDM -> HQPlayer restores last SDM setting (poly-sinc-short-mp etc.)
7. Playback of DSD128 is ok either directly from HQPlayer or via Roon

 

Have you checked that you don't accidentally have the same DAC enabled as a zone in Roon?

 

Cleaner way to reset should be:

1. Exit HQPlayer
2. Turn LIO off
3. Turn LIO on
4. Start HQPlayer

 

[Dr Tone]

47 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

@Samuel T Cogley I had a chance to send DSD128 to the Ayre Codex and I definitely like it more than the internal filtering.  I wish we knew what Ayre is doing internally with DSD128 content exactly.

 

poly-sinc-xtr/ASDM7

 

It also solved about 3 issues with my crappy McIntosh DAC so it's staying in my system until I can research and try to find something better.

 

poly-sinc-ext to PCM might be nicer though.  I have a thing for the ext filter but going to DSD with it won't work with the Ayre for 48kHz variant source.

[Yviena]

I don't really know why but the closed form filter reacts weirdly with my 290x while trying out some games.

 

The CPU usage of hqplayer with closed form, is only 14% but I loose like 20-30 fps with frequent micro stuttering, I'm also noticing it when I'm browsing. But running the xtr filter is around 23% usage but with no impact on fps or performance anywhere. I actually thought xtr would worsen the issue but it looks like it only happens in the closed form filter.

 

I don't really have a Nvidia card to try but could it be a AMD GPUs specific issue?

 

@Miska

[Miska]

6 hours ago, Yviena said:

I don't really know why but the closed form filter reacts weirdly with my 290x while trying out some games.

 

The CPU usage of hqplayer with closed form, is only 14% but I loose like 20-30 fps with frequent micro stuttering, I'm also noticing it when I'm browsing. But running the xtr filter is around 23% usage but with no impact on fps or performance anywhere. I actually thought xtr would worsen the issue but it looks like it only happens in the closed form filter.

 

I don't really have a Nvidia card to try but could it be a AMD GPUs specific issue?

 

@Miska

 

AMD GPU is not used, only Nvidia is supported. So not GPU related. But other than that I don't have a clear answer why those things are related in the way they seem to be... The load pattern between the two is different and different settings for the "Multicore DSP" may change the situation.

 

[westside]

Hi guys,

I use AO + Fidelizer Pro 7.7 on Windows server 2012 R2 and i try to install Hqplayer ( the last one and an older version ) without sucess.

I try many things but i have always an error message as soon as start the software (look the picture)

Have you got an idea to help me please ?

Thank you by advance.

Regards.

 

Aurelien.

 

@Miska

[mirekti]

15 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Have you checked that you don't accidentally have the same DAC enabled as a zone in Roon?

 

Cleaner way to reset should be:

1. Exit HQPlayer
2. Turn LIO off
3. Turn LIO on
4. Start HQPlayer

 

 

I will check that once I get home. 
Regarding the cleaner exit, for some reason this is not enough, I had to start and stop HQPlayer once LIO is off in order to somehow "clean up" the USB state. After that, I need to change from Auto to SDM in HQPlayer and it is ok. 

All in all, it is not so bad, it just occurs sometimes and than I need to follow my steps from above to recover it. World isn't perfect, right?

Thanks!!!

[57gold]

16 hours ago, Dr Tone said:

  I have a thing for the ext filter but going to DSD 

 

Tried the poly-sinc-xtr and at DSD128/ASDM7 through my Mytek DSD192 it sounds very detailed, but a bit strident on many recordings.  Listen to Julian Lage/Chris Eldridge on their vintage Martins, and Julian is such a musically articulate player. I get a little too much edge on pick attack and string rattles with straight xtr...but the -2 version captures the good, articulation, detail, air...with a more relaxed presentation.  May be the extra CPU stress of the xtr makes my 2.6 quad core Mini work too hard?

 

Continued to be amazed at how this heavy duty "math" effects the music...but I guess I shouldn't be.

[Dr Tone]

27 minutes ago, 57gold said:

Tried the poly-sinc-xtr and at DSD128/ASDM7 through my Mytek DSD192 it sounds very detailed, but a bit strident on many recordings.  Listen to Julian Lage/Chris Eldridge on their vintage Martins, and Julian is such a musically articulate player. I get a little too much edge on pick attack and string rattles with straight xtr...but the -2 version captures the good, articulation, detail, air...with a more relaxed presentation.  May be the extra CPU stress of the xtr makes my 2.6 quad core Mini work too hard?

 

Not sure, I don't find the ply-sinc-xtr strident in any way, but everone's system after HQPlayer is different.  That said, I was talking about my love of the poly-sinc-ext filter not that dislike the poly-sinc-xtr it's a close second.

[Dr Tone]

28 minutes ago, 57gold said:

May be the extra CPU stress of the xtr makes my 2.6 quad core Mini work too hard?

 

If you use an NAA it should be less of factor.

[wwaldmanfan]

On 2/8/2016 at 6:51 PM, bibo01 said:

For those who are not on FB, HQPlayer Desktop and HQPlayer Embedded 3.13.0 released!

 

- Multichannel speaker distance adjustments are now available also in DirectSDM mode.

- New set of keyboard shortcuts reflecting the function button layout on Apple keyboards.

- Fine-tuning of DSD7 modulator and new filter for cleaning up MQA encoded content.

- Automatic output mode and rate switching.

- Plus usual performance improvements and bug fixes.

 

I've read the manual and searched this forum, and I cannot find a list of HQPlayer Desktop v3.16 for Mac keyboard shortcuts.

Spacebar will start play of selected track, and command-spacebar will restart play of same track. Other than that, nothing seems functional. How about pause, resume, stop play, scrolling the playlist up/down, etc.?

[wwaldmanfan]

1 hour ago, wwaldmanfan said:

 

I've read the manual and searched this forum, and I cannot find a list of HQPlayer Desktop v3.16 for Mac keyboard shortcuts.

Spacebar will start play of selected track, and command-spacebar will restart play of same track. Other than that, nothing seems functional. How about pause, resume, stop play, scrolling the playlist up/down, etc.?

 

OK, I did find some info from Miska on page 195 of this thread.

First, I did not have the F keys enabled in the Keyboard System Preferences. Duh, I corrected that.

F7 previous track

F8 pause/resume

F9 next track

F10 mute volume to minimum preset

F11 volume down

F12 volume up

 

A "stop play" command, as well as an "unmute" command do not exist, but would be useful.

[Bob Stern]

@wwaldmanfan:  Thanks for digging up that list of shortcut keys.

 

For commands that don’t already have F-keys, you can use the OS X "Automator" program to create an OS X "service" that sends the command to the HQP command line utility.  You can assign a keyboard shortcut to the service in OS X Prefs > Keyboard > Shortcuts.

 

For example, for Stop, use Automator to create a service that runs the following shell script:

/Applications/HQPlayerDesktop.app/Contents/MacOS/hqp-control localhost --stop

 

To see the available commands, paste the following into Terminal:

/Applications/HQPlayerDesktop.app/Contents/MacOS/hqp-control help

 

Note that "help" is the only HQP command that is not preceded by localhost.

 

Tutorials on Automator:

http://www.macosxautomation.com/automator/

 

I do not believe there is an un-mute command — i.e., there is no built-in way to return the volume to its level before the mute command.

 

 

[zoltan]

I'm looking for some advice on processor load from more experienced people. I'm building a passive system and wondering what the processor load may be in the following scenario: 
upsampling to DSD256 for all other DSD and PCM formats in 2 channel stereo only with Roon also running. (and NAA further down the line). No graphics card.

 

I am asking this as the case will be one that can cool processors up to 65W TDP but it seems from tests of this case that if the processor load is constantly high temperature can go up to unwanted levels. Can anyone make educated guesses on the possible processor load?

Thank you.