HQ Player

[pkane2001]

Thank you, @Dr Tone So, is it that DoP somehow doesn't support DSD512 or is it that CoreAudio can't handle DSD512  over PCM?

 

I have a USB converter (coming soon) that claims to be able to handle DSD512, so I'd like to know if I there is even a slight chance of this ever working on a Mac at that rate.

[Dr Tone]

6 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Thank you, @Dr Tone So, is it that DoP somehow doesn't support DSD512 or is it that CoreAudio can't handle DSD512  over PCM?

 

I have a USB converter (coming soon) that claims to be able to handle DSD512, so I'd like to know if I there is even a slight chance of this ever working on a Mac at that rate.

 

DOP is related to DAC's supported PCM sample rate.  DSD128 requires at least 352.8kHz pcm input.  DSD256 requires at least 705.6kHz pcm input.  DSD512 in theory would require at least 1411.2kHz pcm input which doesn't exist.

[pkane2001]

2 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

DOP is related to DAC's supported PCM sample rate.  DSD128 requires 384kHz pcm input.  DSD256 requires 768kHz pcm input.  DSD512 in theory would require 1536kHz pcm input which doesn't exist.

 

Makes perfect sense! Thank you for the education.

[AnotherSpin]

1 hour ago, Dr Tone said:

 

DOP is related to DAC's supported PCM sample rate.  DSD128 requires at least 352.8kHz pcm input.  DSD256 requires at least 705.6kHz pcm input.  DSD512 in theory would require at least 1411.2kHz pcm input which doesn't exist.

 

Well, it seem to be very simple, but, somehow I never realized it would work this way. By some reason I had sample rate limit set to 192k in PCM defaults, was it because it is the limit for PCM files? Now I set limit to 1.4112M, and as a result there is 11.289M in DSD for redbook upsample. First impression from the sound is nothing short of awesome. Will see, but as per now this is single most important thing for HQP settings. 

[LoryWiv]

4 hours ago, Dr Tone said:

 

DOP is related to DAC's supported PCM sample rate.  DSD128 requires at least 352.8kHz pcm input.  DSD256 requires at least 705.6kHz pcm input.  DSD512 in theory would require at least 1411.2kHz pcm input which doesn't exist.

 

2 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

Well, it seem to be very simple, but, somehow I never realized it would work this way. By some reason I had sample rate limit set to 192k in PCM defaults, was it because it is the limit for PCM files? Now I set limit to 1.4112M, and as a result there is 11.289M in DSD for redbook upsample. First impression from the sound is nothing short of awesome. Will see, but as per now this is single most important thing for HQP settings. 

Wow, great information and seems so obvious when stated. But does adjusting the PCM limit affect how PCM --> PCM auto upsampling occurs as well? I like the flexibility to do that in addition to upsampling using SDM (DSD).

[ted_b]

The limits (both PCM and SDM/DSD) are settings where you tell HQPlayer what is the highest rate to upsample to.  This is usually set to the highest rates available on your dac.  Then, from the main screen you can adjust down if needed.

[LoryWiv]

Question about CUDA offload:

 

I recently got a new PC w/nVidea 1060 graphics card, and have checked the CUDA offload box on HQP. I expected the result to be a substantial difference in CPU utilization when upsampling PCM --> DSD but it's essentially unchanged, generally around 11% doing Redbook PCM to DSD256 DoP (my USB interface, Singxer SU-1, doesn't support native DSD yet, awaiting a firmware update hopefully soon.) is there a higher CPU "threshold" wherein CUDA GPU offload kicks in? Also, any straightforward way using Win10 resource monitor or nVidea tools to check if the GPU processing (CUDA) is occurring?

 

 

[ted_b]

27 minutes ago, LoryWiv said:

(my USB interface, Singxer SU-1, doesn't support native DSD yet, awaiting a firmware update hopefully soon.)

 

The XMOS Windows driver 3.4 (reported on in my review feedback thread about the Holo Spring dac) for the Holo allows for native (i.e "none" in HQP) playback of the SU-1.  Net/net, it is not firmware that you need, it is a decent XMOS ASIO driver from Matrix.  That will allow the SU-1 to play up to DSD256 natively in Windows.  

[lmitche]

6 hours ago, Dr Tone said:

 

DOP is related to DAC's supported PCM sample rate.  DSD128 requires at least 352.8kHz pcm input.  DSD256 requires at least 705.6kHz pcm input.  DSD512 in theory would require at least 1411.2kHz pcm input which doesn't exist.

Native dsd, aka DSD without dop, halves the required USB speed, so dsd512 runs at 768kHz.

[ted_b]

16 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Native dsd, aka DSD without dop, halves the required USB speed, so dsd512 runs at 768kHz.

??  What do you mean by this?  Native DSD does not run at PCM sample rates at all.

[LoryWiv]

4 hours ago, ted_b said:

 

The XMOS Windows driver 3.4 (reported on in my review feedback thread about the Holo Spring dac) for the Holo allows for native (i.e "none" in HQP) playback of the SU-1.  Net/net, it is not firmware that you need, it is a decent XMOS ASIO driver from Matrix.  That will allow the SU-1 to play up to DSD256 natively in Windows.  

 

Got it, glad 3.4 allows native DSD with the Holo but my understanding is it would not do so with other DAC's. I've emailed Singxer in hopes they will release a more broadly applicable FW.

 

Thanks for your patient help, Ted. Despite these minor quibbles, I am listening to Bach Keyboard Concertos as I type; HQP --> Singxer SU-1 I2S --> Matrix DAC --> iCAN Pro --> ZMF Ori, and it is sublime! I will try to remember to embrace and enjoy the music as I pursue perfection (or at least the degree of it my wallet and wife allow.)

[Miska]

20 hours ago, PowerQuality said:

@Miska

 

Trying to install the hqpplayerd, but having some errors I can't figure out. Google could not help me out on this one.

 

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
hqplayerd : Depends: libstdc++6 (>= 6) but 5.4.0-6ubuntu1~16.04.4 is installed

 

Some helpful hints will be appreciated! Thanks a lot

 

Are you trying to install the correct package? To me it looks like you are trying to install Debian Stretch package on Ubuntu Xenial... Download the Xenial package instead...

[Miska]

8 hours ago, LoryWiv said:

I recently got a new PC w/nVidea 1060 graphics card, and have checked the CUDA offload box on HQP. I expected the result to be a substantial difference in CPU utilization when upsampling PCM --> DSD but it's essentially unchanged, generally around 11% doing Redbook PCM to DSD256 DoP (my USB interface, Singxer SU-1, doesn't support native DSD yet, awaiting a firmware update hopefully soon.) is there a higher CPU "threshold" wherein CUDA GPU offload kicks in?

 

If your load is just around 11%, then there's not much benefit in offloading work to GPU, because just the offloading overhead is usually couple of percent.

 

8 hours ago, LoryWiv said:

, any straightforward way using Win10 resource monitor or nVidea tools to check if the GPU processing (CUDA) is occurring?

 

HQPlayer reports in it's status bar when playback is started if the offloading is enabled.

[ted_b]

7 hours ago, LoryWiv said:

Got it, glad 3.4 allows native DSD with the Holo but my understanding is it would not do so with other DAC's. I've emailed Singxer in hopes they will release a more broadly applicable FW.

No, you are confusing terms.  I am now talking about ASIO drivers, not firmware.  Yes, the Holo-specific 2.2 firmware (2.2, not 3.4) on the SU-1 gets us DSD512, but it has nothing to do with running DoP vs native.  Native playback requires an ASIO driver from your dac manufacturer.  I was simply saying my XMOS 3.4 driver works for Holo in Windows.

[Jud]

9 hours ago, ted_b said:

??  What do you mean by this?  Native DSD does not run at PCM sample rates at all.

 

He means that a DAC that "does DSD" natively with a particular OS/driver will do DSD512 (x44.1) if it is capable of 705.6kHz PCM rates, but because of the nature of DoP it doubles that requirement: If you have a DAC that "does DSD" over DoP with a particular OS/driver that is capable of 705.6kHz PCM rates, you can get DSD256 (x44.1) out of it.

[ted_b]

4 minutes ago, Jud said:

He means that a DAC that "does DSD" natively with a particular OS/driver will do DSD512 (x44.1) if it is capable of 705.6kHz PCM rates

?  Then how do you guys explain DSD-only dacs (filterless, certain Lampi, dual dacs, etc).  What relevance do PCM rates have on DACs that are incapable of doing PCM?

[Jud]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

?  Then how do you guys explain DSD-only dacs (filterless, certain Lampi, dual dacs, etc).  What relevance do PCM rates have on DACs that are incapable of doing PCM?

 

They don't (PCM rates don't have any relevance if you have a DSD-only DAC).   

 

But if you have a DAC that does both, it's a handy-dandy way to understand the max DSD rates your DAC is capable of depending on the OS and driver.  So for example my micro-iDSD does 768kHz PCM and will handle DSD natively, which means it can provide DSD512 rates on Linux and Windows, but is limited to DSD256 on MacOS due to Core Audio's limitation.  A DAC that has a custom driver on MacOS might be capable of DSD512 there. A DAC that does DSD via DoP, like my Geek Out, is limited to half the native DSD rate due to protocol overhead.  So although the GO will do 352.8kHz on the PCM side, it is limited to DSD128 rather than the DSD256 it would be capable of if it had a driver that would permit handling native DSD.

[ted_b]

Well, that "rule" also has a lot to do with clock stability at the max end of the clock.  Not always a go-to;  i.e max sample and bit rates that a clock is supposed to do is not really always the best sound...in the case of a few clocks that show rates like 768k in HQPlayer, the PCM playback of 768k is garbage or silence.

 

BTW, many of us use dacs with two paths, and the PCM rate of the "PCM side" is irrelevant to the chip or signal path spec of the "DSD side".

[Jud]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

Well, that "rule" also has a lot to do with clock stability at the max end of the clock.  Not always a go-to;  i.e max sample and bit rates that a clock is supposed to do is not really always the best sound...in the case of a few clocks that show rates like 768k in HQPlayer, the PCM playback of 768k is garbage or silence.

 

BTW, many of us use dacs with two paths, and the PCM rate of the "PCM side" is irrelevant to the chip or signal path spec of the "DSD side".

 

Yes, two-DACs-in-one will also not obey this "rule."

 

But then what max rate PCM playback sounds like may not have a great deal to do with what max rate DSD playback sounds like, though certainly if the DAC can't maintain stable playback at the max advertised rate that will affect both PCM and DSD for DACs that don't have two separate paths.

[LoryWiv]

8 hours ago, ted_b said:

No, you are confusing terms.  I am now talking about ASIO drivers, not firmware.  Yes, the Holo-specific 2.2 firmware (2.2, not 3.4) on the SU-1 gets us DSD512, but it has nothing to do with running DoP vs native.  Native playback requires an ASIO driver from your dac manufacturer.  I was simply saying my XMOS 3.4 driver works for Holo in Windows.

Thank for clarifying.

[LoryWiv]

12 hours ago, Miska said:

 

HQPlayer reports in it's status bar when playback is started if the offloading is enabled.

Thanks, Miska.

[lucretius]

Is there a way in HQPlayer to pass through MQA files while at the same time upsampling all other files?

[baburh]

Hello everyone. 

My question may be little off the topic but definitely not irrelevant. I will appreciate your feedback. 

I have a single pc CAPS Zuma (i7-3770T, SOTM..) powered by a 3 rail Paul Hynes Linear supply. It a dual boot setup Win10 and WinServer 2012R2 both running Jriver. I would like to upgrade the hardware in order to be able venture into more resources intensive software. I would like to keep as many components as possible like the case, ssd, SOTM. I already bought the CPU: i7-7700T. Could you please guide me with motherboard and the rest?

I m not considering to add a graphics card for now as I do not have high end DSD capability. I have the Meitner MA1 and have not upgraded to the new version just yet. 

Your comments most appreciated. 

 

[ted_b]

Baburh, ask the question in the Design A PC/Server for Roon/HQPlayer thread.  It should be near the top cuz it's quite active today.

[Miska]

47 minutes ago, lucretius said:

Is there a way in HQPlayer to pass through MQA files while at the same time upsampling all other files?

 

No... And MQA is best avoided in general...