Neil young announces the launch of ponomusic

[Jud]

You are much too far down the audiophile rabbit hole if you think a $400 music-only player that won't fit in your pocket is going to convert anyone.

 

This is not a mass-market device, and it's no surprise that they are going to be putting it on kickstarter rather than launching it to the public.

 

They could be in a little bit of a bind. I'm assuming iDevices won't play this stuff due to the resolution, even if the format is FLAC/ALAC. So the hurdle becomes knocking people out with the SQ of, as you say, a $400 device that won't fit in your pocket.

 

I'm guessing the Neil Young name will grab people like David Pogue of the NY Times, perhaps the tech reporter for the Wall Street Journal, and others not limited to the usual audiophile press. Raves there could help. But a part of any such review will be available tracks/albums/artists/labels, so that's critical, too.

 

Though my interest is piqued (and could be more so, depending on what the Kickstarter offer looks like), this doesn't look like an easy lift by any means. But I'd love to be wrong, and watch hordes of millenials queuing up to buy the hardware and software.

[bfalls]

Great Post. I think NY and Company are looking to convert the masses - Not the so called Audiophiles.

 

Exactly.

 

Neil is trying to bring what the artist intended as directly as possible to a large group of music lovers - not just the fringe audiophile community. I have heard a prototype unit in my system and it is very good digital - for $400 it will embarrass a lot of high-end units. But the cool thing is my kids could hear the difference when they plugged in their Beats headphones.

[Audio_ELF]

Neil is trying to bring what the artist intended as directly as possible to a large group of music lovers - not just the fringe audiophile community.

Well... He is trying to bring what *he thinks* the artist intends. I would suggest perhaps he needs to work on educating mastering engineers as much as producing high res file formats...

 

I have heard a prototype unit in my system and it is very good digital - for $400 it will embarrass a lot of high-end units. But the cool thing is my kids could hear the difference when they plugged in their Beats headphones.

Given that you make the claim of "having heard a prototype" perhaps you could introduce yourself and tell us how you came by the prototype.

 

Eloise

[labjr]

I've demonstrated well mastered music to non-audiophile friends who were blown away by the difference. And they made remarks like. " Wow, it sounds like it's in the room!..What is that!" Most people are so used to lossy compressed music and old CD masters that they need a re-introduction to real music.

[Audio_ELF]

I've demonstrated well mastered music to non-audiophile friends who were blown away by the difference.

The question is were they blown away because it was well mastered or because it was high resolution?

 

I'm still waiting for some information if Pono is going to be selling music differently mastered (and presumably less compressed). If he is selling music which sound "the way the artist wants" who is to say they actually want their music to sound more dynamic!

 

Eloise

[matt123]

Interesting to set this topic along side the Beck discussion. Again and again, I just keep thinking what we need to get more people into loving music is more great music, well recorded, produced and delivered. It seems to me, they could have done that so much earlier and easier.

 

There are very well tested ideas about starting new technology companies these days - the best and simplest idea in my opinion is to get a "minimum viable product" out as early as possible that you can start selling repeatably. Neil Young could have done this years ago - through a simple Pono download service - starting with his own music.

 

How many of us would have paid $30+ to buy a few albums?

 

How many others after his Letterman interview?

 

As someone who's been around a lot of tech startups, I can feel the cash gushing out the door of Pono, and it makes me cringe.

[bfalls]

Well... He is trying to bring what *he thinks* the artist intends. I would suggest perhaps he needs to work on educating mastering engineers as much as producing high res file formats...

 

Neil has direct access to the artists - his intent is to have them have more control over the final product - so I stand by what I said and you are placing limitations based on your current understanding of the process.

 

 

Given that you make the claim of "having heard a prototype" perhaps you could introduce yourself and tell us how you came by the prototype.

 

Eloise

 

I can make the "claim" because Neil gave me one of his personal units last fall - I didn't really want to get that personal on a forum like this but thanks for making me clarify...

 

I just know that his intent should be applauded and supported - not viewed with skepticsm based on lack of understanding.

[Audio_ELF]

Neil has direct access to the artists - his intent is to have them have more control over the final product - so I stand by what I said and you are placing limitations based on your current understanding of the process.

Sounds a good aim...

 

I'm just doubtful if others are going to cooperate with this aim. My understanding was that Pono was aiming to sell mainstream music ... Sounds a bit of a pipe dream that Haim, Florence and the Machince and Jake Bugg (to mention just 3) are going to be able to have the control over their music to such an extent.

 

I can make the "claim" because Neil gave me one of his personal units last fall - I didn't really want to get that personal on a forum like this but thanks for making me clarify...

You still haven't said who you are or even your professional sector to explain how you got such a unit: so I reserve the right to treat your comments with skepticism.

 

I just know that his intent should be applauded and supported - not viewed with skepticsm based on lack of understanding.

His intent is applaudable; what is being treated with skepticism is if Pono is actually going to do anything to push forward the idea of well recorded music to the general consumer.

 

Given that NY has control over his own music... Let's see him put his money where his mouth is and release his own music in HD at the same cost as a CD.

 

Eloise

[esldude]

I can make the "claim" because Neil gave me one of his personal units last fall - I didn't really want to get that personal on a forum like this but thanks for making me clarify...

 

I just know that his intent should be applauded and supported - not viewed with skepticsm based on lack of understanding.

 

I don't see anyone's comments that aren't applause for his aim. And we would very much like to support him. The lack of understanding is from lack of information. That is not our fault. If Neil and others tells us how great it is, and nothing else maybe he should have waited until he had more before hyping this up.

 

The comments about start ups is good too. Often get something, and get it out the door so it can evolve is the right answer. The usually disappointing results come from holding onto something until you think it is perfect before releasing product. I can see a perfectionist has trouble doing this differently. If the people behind this have the exactly perfect idea of perfect then it might be an instant smash hit. Those are very rare. Usually the idea is off and waiting contributed nothing except making it harder for the product/service to change in response to potential customers ideas. Pono appears headed down this path. Just the odds are it won't be a big hit. Then again, we don't understand because the information beyond it greatness implied is being held from the possible customers. A little short time of mystery builds anticipation. Too much doesn't help.

 

What this reminds me of is the device that was going to revolutionize human transportation......you remember the Segway.

 

Hope it isn't the hirez audio version of the Segway.

[labjr]

The question is were they blown away because it was well mastered or because it was high resolution?

 

 

One commented that it was definitely the dithering because he felt he could only hear 19 bits of resolution

 

Seriously, How should I know! They just liked it!

[Brekel]

Not Pro Bono?

 

They should get U2 to sponsor a (Product)RED edition. It would be the Bono Pono.

[Jim Sylva]

......you remember the Segway.

The only community I have seen adopting the Segway (or similar device) is the SciFi film industry. Maybe the Pono will show up in a fictional future.

[Audio_ELF]

The only community I have seen adopting the Segway (or similar device) is the SciFi film industry. Maybe the Pono will show up in a fictional future.

Used a lot by camera men at golf tournaments too (Segway not Pono).

 

Eloise

[jazzy1]

The question is were they blown away because it was well mastered or because it was high resolution?

 

I'm still waiting for some information if Pono is going to be selling music differently mastered (and presumably less compressed). If he is selling music which sound "the way the artist wants" who is to say they actually want their music to sound more dynamic!

 

Eloise

 

It's a safe bet the labels will source identical masters to pono, hdtracks, qobuz, etc

 

Looking forward to discussions on provenance and screening.

[wdw]

Exactly.

 

Neil is trying to bring what the artist intended as directly as possible to a large group of music lovers - not just the fringe audiophile community. I have heard a prototype unit in my system and it is very good digital - for $400 it will embarrass a lot of high-end units. But the cool thing is my kids could hear the difference when they plugged in their Beats headphones.

 

Now that is exciting, you've heard it and it sounds great...thank you for this post.

Your comments and perspective are appreciated.

I suspect Neil is in ernest in this effort and for this, I truly respect him.

Also a hat's off to InfernoSTI...great post, true but saddening...we, on this site, bicker and fuss endlessly like a group of oldies in our internet nursing home.

Even Chris is needlessly subject to some argument.

Cheers, WDW

[wdw]

Not Pro Bono?

 

when they get around to marketing it'll be the ,

'pro bono' bono pono promo

[esimms86]

I'm having as much fun with the name Pono as anyone but, in truth, I think that given NY's Hollywood connections and the 399 USD price point, the Pono would be well poised for product placement on television and movies. Think of all the MacBooks and iPads on American crime shows and then imagine Abbie on NCIS with a Pono or Brad Pitt in Burn After Reading exercising on the treadmill with a Pono.

 

For me, Pono will always first and foremost be a small company making prized Ukuleles in Hawaii.

 

Esau

[bfalls]

Now that is exciting, you've heard it and it sounds great...thank you for this post.

Your comments and perspective are appreciated.

I suspect Neil is in ernest in this effort and for this, I truly respect him.

Also a hat's off to InfernoSTI...great post, true but saddening...we, on this site, bicker and fuss endlessly like a group of oldies in our internet nursing home.

Even Chris is needlessly subject to some argument.

Cheers, WDW

 

Thanks - I don't particpate much on forums but I happen to be in a position to help put some perspective on what Neil is trying to do, and I just wanted to acknwledge that InfernoSTI was on the right track. Not sure I needed my integrity challenged - tough crowd.

 

Bruce

[Pete86]

I don't know if it's more funny or pathetic that they released that promo image. Track tags not even remotely organized and battery almost drained. That is simply an incredible oversight.

[Jud]

Often get something, and get it out the door so it can evolve is the right answer. The usually disappointing results come from holding onto something until you think it is perfect before releasing product. I can see a perfectionist has trouble doing this differently.

 

There are very well tested ideas about starting new technology companies these days - the best and simplest idea in my opinion is to get a "minimum viable product" out as early as possible that you can start selling repeatably. Neil Young could have done this years ago - through a simple Pono download service - starting with his own music.

 

As someone who's been around a lot of tech startups, I can feel the cash gushing out the door of Pono, and it makes me cringe.

 

The interesting thing to me about this is that it's the exact opposite of what Apple did with the iPod and iTunes. They tried, insofar as Steve Jobs' fanatical drive could make it so, to get everything perfect before launch. What those products steamrolled was the "minimum viable" download services the music labels had been trying to make a go of for years and their customers turned away from in droves.

 

Now that the thousand pound gorilla already exists (iTunes), and various free download services are reasonably popular (Spotify, Pandora), perhaps "minimum viable" is more minimum than viable. Non-audiophiles are going to have to be really impressed to spend serious money on this.

[Superdad]

As the saying goes: CONTENT IS KING. If Apple had launched the iTunes store without having deals with all the record labels then the masses would not have shown up.

Look also to the turn-around of many cable/satellite TV channels: All the original and compelling shows they began producing a few years ago have completely reversed their fortunes.

If PONO launches with compelling content then it stands a chance. Otherwise it will just become a curiosity and then the best we can hope for is it somehow spurring the larger services to offer higher-resolution downloads. Frankly, I'd be happier if I could buy 16/44.1 tracks and albums from iTunes. I am getting tired of oredering CDs from Amazon.

[new_media]

Hope it isn't the hirez audio version of the Segway.

 

So the only people who buy Ponos will be mall cops and Steve Wozniak?

[beetlemania]

Frankly, I'd be happier if I could buy 16/44.1 tracks and albums from iTunes.

I'm still trying to understand if I can buy and play files from ponomusic with having to use their player. I like to imagine that I can and that ponomusic will offer hi-rez and boatloads of popular 14/44 music.

[wgscott]

I always knew you loved me Bill...

 

Well, you do spell "skepticism" like a good 'merikun.

[wgscott]

Not sure I needed my integrity challenged - tough crowd.

 

Bruce

 

Not sure anyone did that.