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Neil young announces the launch of ponomusic


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Seriously? $399 is awesome for this set of features.
I agree - $400 seemed quite expensive for what we had been shown, but after reading about the audio hardware inside, it sounds like a very good deal.
and will be cheaper than an iPod and still have 2x the storage
A 160GB iPod is $250 today.
I like the way this product looks. Different than most pocket portables yes, but for my use, form follows function beautifully. First, I would be carrying this in a backpack or messenger bag while traveling. Second, I could set it on the tray-table that will likely be in front of me or a hotel nightstand and actually be able to easily read the display. I could also carry some SD cards loaded with music for those times when I want all/more of my library with me. The price tag seems reasonable enough if the quality is there, but there's just too many unanswered questions right now.
I know I'm repeating myself, and I hate adding to the negativity here -- especially what is being directed towards Chris -- but I really dislike how this looks. It looks like a cheap plastic player that you would give a child, with its bright colors, large buttons, and unusual shape.

 

That's not going to fit nicely into a pocket, which is where most portable players live.

Compare that to the sleek aluminum and glass designs from Apple, the new Walkman from Sony, or the premium smartphones that most people are carrying their audio on these days.

 

I think when most of us saw the Pono player for the first time, we assumed it was an early prototype, rather than how the final design would end up.

 

Even if they kept the same design but used better materials, I'd be happier about buying one.

I probably will though, as it sounds like the audio hardware inside will be worth the price alone.

 

I wonder if that's a USB port on the bottom, and if it can be used as a USB DAC - if that is the case, the shape starts to make more sense, and I will be pre-ordering one immediately.

 

ipod doesn't play hi-rez. Don't know what the heck is wrong with Apple. They should have done this years ago.
Probably because 64-128GB doesn't hold a lot of high-res music. People are used to carrying a huge portion of their library about with them.

 

Just think how many albums you could fit onto a 160GB iPod if you were happy to use 128k AAC/MP3 (as most people are)

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Just reading my messages above I will retract my accusations of Chris being unprofessional; I would however some skepticism (and acknowledgement that others have some reason to be skeptic) to be shown which he has not...

 

I hope that statement can put to rest any defence of Chris based on my comments.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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More info about Ayre's contribution to the PonoPlayer.

Well, that's pretty cool. I imagine that it will easily stomp the iPod and at a competitive price. But I'm not looking for a portable player. What does Pono mean in terms of expanded hi-res titles and will they play on non-Pono hardware?

Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables

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.......but I really dislike how this looks. It looks like a cheap plastic player that you would give a child, with its bright colors, large buttons, and unusual shape. (edit)

 

 

Point well taken, but if you go the the MacRummors site, you can find people who complain about the shape of a iPhone......it is just personal preference and the folks who like it will buy it.

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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Neil Young's balad for Eloise

 

 

"Out On The Internet"

 

Think I'll pack it in

and build a PONO

Try to make it pay.

Find a format to call my own

and try to fix up.

Start a brand new day.

 

The vinyl I'm thinking of,

I used it all up

But I'm so down today

It's so fine, playing in my mind

I hear it to 96 kHz.

 

See the potential customer,

looking for downloads

I'll try to make it pay.

Can't relate to mp3s,

he tries to purchase

Can't begin to say.

 

The format I'm thinking of,

encodes it all up

But I'm so down today

It's so fine at least in my mind.

I hear a profit stream.

 

See the potential customer,

looking for downloads

I'll try to make it pay.

Can't relate to mp3s,

he tries to purchase

Can't begin to say.

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More info about Ayre's contribution to the PonoPlayer.

 

1) Ayre's custom designed and implemented digital filter. It is minimum phase, with no unnatural (digital sounding) pre-ringing. All sounds made always have reflections and/or echoes after the initial sound. There is no sound in nature that has any echo or reflection before the sound, which is what conventional linear-phase digital filters do. This is one reason that digital sound has a reputation for sounding "unnatural".

 

2) All circuitry is zero-feedback. Feedback can only correct an error after it has occurred, which means that it can never correct for all errors. By using proprietary ultra linear circuitry with wide bandwidth and low output impedance, there is no need for unnatural sounding feedback.

 

3) The DAC chip used is the ESS ES9018, widely recognized in the audio and engineering community as the best sounding DAC chip available today.

 

4) The output buffer used to drive the headphones is fully discrete so that all individual parameters and circuit values and parts quality can be fully optimized for the absolute finest sound quality. The output impedance is very low so that the Pono Player will deliver perfectly flat frequency response to any headphone made.

 

 

Hi Chris: Thanks for posting the above additional info. But I do have a couple of suggestions:

 

a) Since the text you posted is clearly a direct lift from a press release or promo sheet provided to you, I think it would have been more appropriate for you to have pasted it in either as an image of the release or with some couple word preamble such as "From a release provided by Ayre (or whoever). The way you did it makes it seem like those are your words and opinions. I know they are not since you would never make such promotional, embellished, declarative statements.

 

b) It would be good to know the source of your press releases. Are they coming from Ayre or PonoMusic?

 

c) Is there a date coming up when your non-disclosure/embargo on talking freely about the product/format/ecosystem expires? Knowing a date might end some of this endless speculation--and reduce the heat that people are putting on for/about these little leaks.

 

Have a safe trip to SXSW!

 

Alex C.

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Neil Young's balad for Eloise

 

"Out On The Internet"

 

Awesome Bill!

 

What I want to know is when Neil Young digital reissues of his early works will come out having some kick-ass bass! Tunes like Southern Man, Cowgirl in the Sand, and Words (Between the Lines of Age) deserve to really rock (though the 16 minute version of Words--taking up all of side 3--on Journey Through the Past is pretty good.

 

Sadly, the bass is probably not there on the original tapes. But I would not be above some careful boosting…

As a fellow NY fan, what do you think Bill?

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Just reading my messages above I will retract my accusations of Chris being unprofessional; I would however some skepticism (and acknowledgement that others have some reason to be skeptic) to be shown which he has not...

 

I hope that statement can put to rest any defence of Chris based on my comments.

 

Eloise

 

Hello Eloise,

 

There are always more than two sides to every issue. As far as I am concerned, in my own way, I was looking after your side as well. Bravo for taking a new perspective. Does not make you "wrong" in the first instance either. Just means you're the thoughtful person we know you to be.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

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Neil Young's balad for Eloise

 

"Out On The Internet"

I always knew you loved me Bill...

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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And about the 128GB holding 1000 to 2000 albums, I'm sure they meant to say "songs"...

 

Press releases are crucial pieces in a marketing strategy. Those words are carefully crafted and highly scrutinized pieces of copy. I find it hard to believe such a huge error in terminology would get there unintentionally. Since we know current lossless compression formats couldn't accomplish what they are saying, it leads me to suspect they might have developed some new compression algorithm.

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And about the 128GB holding 1000 to 2000 albums, I'm sure they meant to say "songs"...

 

Press releases are crucial pieces in a marketing strategy. Those words are carefully crafted and highly scrutinized pieces of copy. I find it hard to believe such a huge error in terminology would get there unintentionally. Since we know current lossless compression formats couldn't accomplish what they are saying, it leads me to suspect they might have developed some new compression algorithm.

 

I tend to doubt the new compression algorithm theory. This is down-the-line math/computer science stuff, in which I am very skeptical that those involved in Pono would have made groundbreaking advances. I think it's a simple mistake. But we'll find out soon enough.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Maybe they used MLP? Neil was at Meridian talking to Bob Stuart at some point. However, I'd think Charlie Hansen would recommend against compression since decompressing on the fly can affect sound quality. But I don't think MLP is any more efficient than FLAC.

 

I think the 1000-2000 number is a mistake or they didn't mean to use the words "high resolution" after it. Was marketing meant for MP3 people because that's mostly what they'll be playing. Audiophiles don't need to know this. They can make a quick calculation in their head. Why does it matter anyway? We know it's 128GB. That's all.

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March 15th is the beginning of the Kickstarter campaign. Though you know what Shakespeare said about that.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Maybe they used MLP? Neil was at Meridian talking to Bob Stuart at some point. However, I'd think Charlie Hansen would recommend against compression since decompressing on the fly can affect sound quality. But I don't think MLP is any more efficient than FLAC.

 

I think the 1000-2000 number is a mistake or they didn't mean to use the words "high resolution" after it. Was marketing meant for MP3 people because that's mostly what they'll be playing. Audiophiles don't need to know this. They can make a quick calculation in their head. Why does it matter anyway? We know it's 128GB. That's all.

 

I think the 1000-2000 may be accurate but perhaps "recordings" or "files" got transposed into "albums" when songs or tracks is what was actually meant,

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Hi Chris: Thanks for posting the above additional info. But I do have a couple of suggestions:

 

a) Since the text you posted is clearly a direct lift from a press release or promo sheet provided to you, I think it would have been more appropriate for you to have pasted it in either as an image of the release or with some couple word preamble such as "From a release provided by Ayre (or whoever). The way you did it makes it seem like those are your words and opinions. I know they are not since you would never make such promotional, embellished, declarative statements.

 

b) It would be good to know the source of your press releases. Are they coming from Ayre or PonoMusic?

 

c) Is there a date coming up when your non-disclosure/embargo on talking freely about the product/format/ecosystem expires? Knowing a date might end some of this endless speculation--and reduce the heat that people are putting on for/about these little leaks.

 

Have a safe trip to SXSW!

 

Alex C.

The information about Ayre's involvement is from a personal email not a press release. I have no NDA, just have the trust of those involved to only share what's on the record.

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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March 15th is the beginning of the Kickstarter campaign. Though you know what Shakespeare said about that.

 

"Once more unto the breach, dear friends…"

 

We are a cranky, crotchety crowd. I think I saw LESS bickering on "Grumpy Old Men" if I recall correctly.

 

Let me sum this up: Neil Young should cater to the "High End Computer Audio" masses (such as we are). He should make Pono play what Computer Audiophiles AGREE is the best format. That would be 24/192…no wait, that isn't needed, just 24/96? Or maybe DSD files are needed…in DSD64 or 128? No, wait, 16/44.1 is fine, in a blind ABA test, nobody can tell…well, actually yes we can, well some can if the right cable is used.

 

Seriously guys and gals? Catering to US is a big mistake. We can't even decide amongst ourselves what is best yet or even why. How would Neil possibly cater to ALL of us?

 

I, for one, am so happy we have a mainstream artist ADVOCATING for high resolution audio. This is a big deal. And at an affordable price…$400 is a great price.

 

I'm only worried about compatible file types. I would buy one in an instant if it could be compatible with my library. If it isn't, then I might not get on board. So NO, not another fanboy. Just keeping it real...

 

Best,

John

Positive emotions enhance our musical experiences.

 

Synology DS213+ NAS -> Auralic Vega w/Linear Power Supply -> Auralic Vega DAC (Symposium Jr rollerball isolation) -> XLR -> Auralic Taurus Pre -> XLR -> Pass Labs XA-30.5 power amplifier (on 4" maple and 4 Stillpoints) -> Hawthorne Audio Reference K2 Speakers in MTM configuration (Symposium Jr HD rollerball isolation) and Hawthorne Audio Bass Augmentation Baffles (Symposium Jr rollerball isolation) -> Bi-amped w/ two Rythmic OB plate amps) -> Extensive Room Treatments (x2 SRL Acoustics Prime 37 diffusion plus key absorption and extensive bass trapping) and Pi Audio Uberbuss' for the front end and amplification

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800px-Cesar-sa_mort.jpg

Positive emotions enhance our musical experiences.

 

Synology DS213+ NAS -> Auralic Vega w/Linear Power Supply -> Auralic Vega DAC (Symposium Jr rollerball isolation) -> XLR -> Auralic Taurus Pre -> XLR -> Pass Labs XA-30.5 power amplifier (on 4" maple and 4 Stillpoints) -> Hawthorne Audio Reference K2 Speakers in MTM configuration (Symposium Jr HD rollerball isolation) and Hawthorne Audio Bass Augmentation Baffles (Symposium Jr rollerball isolation) -> Bi-amped w/ two Rythmic OB plate amps) -> Extensive Room Treatments (x2 SRL Acoustics Prime 37 diffusion plus key absorption and extensive bass trapping) and Pi Audio Uberbuss' for the front end and amplification

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Greetings, new here. As a visual artist I can confidently say that the PONO player is an innovative design and a good looking device. I doubt whether anyone will have to worry about its pocket worthiness however, as I'm convinced, now that I see that they're relying on Kick Starter, that it will never see the light of day. I'm pissed off that what I consider to be an important idea has been so badly handled by Neil Young and whoever else of his "genius" friends (in his autobiography all his friends seem to qualify for that title, even David Crosby..amazing really) are working on the project. If he's got record labels on board to allow licensing, get a download site up and running already! Even if its initially just downloading MP3's (gag) with Neil Young's seal of semi-approval on them, it would be a way of raising capital.

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Seriously guys and gals? Catering to US is a big mistake. We can't even decide amongst ourselves what is best yet or even why. How would Neil possibly cater to ALL of us?

 

If not audiophiles, I don't know who the early adopters will be. The typical consumer electronics early adopter does not buy into the audiophile faith. Meaning that they will not be willing to spend $ for hi-res hardware and media if they don't believe the difference is audible. Sites like Engadget and Gizmodo that cater to early adopters, don't typically endorse audiophile claims and their comments sections ridicule audiophile "beliefs."

 

Perhaps the mainstream press will give Pono a lot of attention thanks to Neil's involvement. I think that is their best best for success, but will they have a business when the hype dies down? I have my doubts.

 

I really do wish them luck in bringing high quality audio to the masses, if that is their mission. I'm a huge Neil Young fan and will certainly checkout Pono due to that. Maybe enough others will feel the same...

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"Once more unto the breach, dear friends…"

 

We are a cranky, crotchety crowd. I think I saw LESS bickering on "Grumpy Old Men" if I recall correctly.

 

Let me sum this up: Neil Young should cater to the "High End Computer Audio" masses (such as we are). He should make Pono play what Computer Audiophiles AGREE is the best format. That would be 24/192…no wait, that isn't needed, just 24/96? Or maybe DSD files are needed…in DSD64 or 128? No, wait, 16/44.1 is fine, in a blind ABA test, nobody can tell…well, actually yes we can, well some can if the right cable is used.

 

Seriously guys and gals? Catering to US is a big mistake. We can't even decide amongst ourselves what is best yet or even why. How would Neil possibly cater to ALL of us?

 

I, for one, am so happy we have a mainstream artist ADVOCATING for high resolution audio. This is a big deal. And at an affordable price…$400 is a great price.

 

I'm only worried about compatible file types. I would buy one in an instant if it could be compatible with my library. If it isn't, then I might not get on board. So NO, not another fanboy. Just keeping it real...

 

Best,

John

 

 

 

 

Great Post. I think NY and Company are looking to convert the masses - Not the so called Audiophiles.

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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You are much too far down the audiophile rabbit hole if you think a $400 music-only player that won't fit in your pocket is going to convert anyone.

 

This is not a mass-market device, and it's no surprise that they are going to be putting it on kickstarter rather than launching it to the public.

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