Neil young announces the launch of ponomusic

[mav52]

That's kind of my point: until they release specific details (presumably in the next day or so), it's all speculation.

 

The key word there is "speculation" so much written in a post that is mostly wishy washy speculation until the truth comes out from Mr Crazy Horse Young/Pono. Or one could say they assume Pono is this or that

 

“I assume a great deal...”

~ Noel Coward on Assumption

 

“When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me.”

~ Oscar Wilde on Assumption

 

“But when assumptions are sometimes true. Then you're the ass, not me. ”

~ Bryan Yeo on Assumption

 

“When you assume correctly, the ass is not u, but me.”

~ Gerard Caulfield on Assumption

[Audio_ELF]

Hi Food4Thought - You aren't the only person who thinks the negativity in this thread bad. I've talked to a couple people on the phone in the last day who couldn't believe the level of negativity.

 

Pono is the only chance we have right now of increasing the numbers in this wonderful hobby. Sure it's not perfect but people need to give it a chance now that the company is headed in another direction and close to an actual launch.

Chris ... with respect Pono isn't the only chance ... what about the Sony High Resolution launch - why weren't you all over that with praise and promotion?

 

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be saying that Pono is a good thing ... but do you really not understand where most of the criticisms and negativity is coming from?

 

I know for a fact that the people who run Pono are reading this thread often. It would be great if we could support Pono and offer constructive criticism when needed. Access to more music is never a bad thing.

Hopefully they will take the negativity as being more constructive than destructive. Where has anyone not wanted Pono to succeed ... just (as I've noted before) the press release is full of nice platitudes while offering very little detail. I know Neil Young has his presentation sometime today so maybe more details will be forthcoming...

 

Eloise

[food4thought]

Hi Food4Thought - You aren't the only person who thinks the negativity in this thread bad. I've talked to a couple people on the phone in the last day who couldn't believe the level of negativity.

 

Pono is the only chance we have right now of increasing the numbers in this wonderful hobby. Sure it's not perfect but people need to give it a chance now that the company is headed in another direction and close to an actual launch.

 

I know for a fact that the people who run Pono are reading this thread often. It would be great if we could support Pono and offer constructive criticism when needed. Access to more music is never a bad thing.

 

 

Chris,

 

Just to be clear, what I said was in no way a reference to your site in general. I know your site, been here before reading though reviews and stuff.

 

Good work you're doing, me thinks.

 

Thanks

Daniel

[InfernoSTi]

Hi Food4Thought - You aren't the only person who thinks the negativity in this thread bad. I've talked to a couple people on the phone in the last day who couldn't believe the level of negativity.

 

Pono is the only chance we have right now of increasing the numbers in this wonderful hobby. Sure it's not perfect but people need to give it a chance now that the company is headed in another direction and close to an actual launch.

 

I know for a fact that the people who run Pono are reading this thread often. It would be great if we could support Pono and offer constructive criticism when needed. Access to more music is never a bad thing.

 

I would remind that while a lot of posts appear overly negative just for the sake of being negative, not all on this thread nor on the site are negative to the concept; rather many of us are supportive of Polo, at least as a concept.

 

This is yet another example of any voices of positivity being drowned by a few very vocal negative people. In fact, the two people who have heard the Pono were both attacked (yes, they were attacked personally by having their credibility called into question). Sadly, some who thought the idea was good were insulted by calling them "fanboys" in a dismissive, derogatory manner. So why would anyone post something positive if they are going to face name calling and attacks on their credibility? I am saddened that some feel it is their personal job to personally attack those they disagree with (questioning professional credibility and name calling are basic personal attacks).

 

It doesn't reflect well on the audiophile community and doesn't match the open, sharing that I generally find to be the case when people get together and listen to music. I have never had someone over that said I lacked the credentials to prefer one file format on my system over another. Nor have I have I ever had someone come over and call me names because I like a particular product line. These things happen here perhaps because we sometimes forget that we are dealing with real people on the other end of the post.

 

I, for one, applaud Neil for his years of work trying to address the MP3 problem. I know of no more outspoken artist on our behalf and that alone has earned my respect. If Pono works or doesn't work it won't change my opinion for trying to make a difference.

 

Best,

John

[labjr]

Again, it would be good if you would educate yourself on the topic before you reply. The setup at Apple is that all 4 parties (Paul, Ringo, Olivia Harrison, Yoko) have to unanimously approve any new remaster of Beatles material for release. Apparently it is extremely difficult to get unanimous approval from them on any given remaster of any given song, and some previously completed remasters have been shelved for just this reason.

 

According to reports from Apple, part of the reason the Beatles vinyl was produced from the 2009 24/44.1 basic remasters was that Apple didn't think they would manage to get approval of any new remaster for vinyl.

 

So yes, any hi-res release of the Beatles albums would require unanimous approval of the 4 parties, and apparently for each song. And by the way, 24/44.1 isn't CD quality, but something better.

 

Try to pause and think next time you want to make such a dismissive, nasty reply of something you clearly know little about.

 

Sorry but it doesn't make sense. All the production was done at 192 kHz. Why then would four parties need to agree to downsample or not? Nothing else would change but the sample rate? What does Yoko know about sample rates? Seems to me like it was a corporate decision so they could continue to resell the catalog forever.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Sorry but it doesn't make sense. All the production was done at 192 kHz. Why then would four parties need to agree to downsample or not? Nothing else would change but the sample rate? What does Yoko know about sample rates? Seems to me like it was a corporate decision so they could continue to resell the catalog forever.

Anytime something is released to make money or for charity all rights holder must agree in this case. Even if the packaging was changed I believe they would have to agree.

[InfernoSTi]

do you really not understand where most of the criticisms and negativity is coming from?

 

Eloise, I doubt there is any question that Chris knows but do you? From my perspective, I take your constant calling into question somebody's professionalism and name calling to be unwarranted negativity completely off the topic designed to stir the pot.

 

Yes, calling somebody a "fanboy" is name calling, just like in Kindergarten when you call somebody a name. Yes, calling somebody unprofessional for an early story that we all knew was coming is of no value to the discussion. As you can see, it isn't becoming of this Forum and reflects upon all of us.

 

If someone were to call into question your credentials or call you a dismissive name, you would be insulted. Please extend the same respect to others that you would want extended to you. That is not too much to ask.

 

John

[VandyMan]

Most of us are passionate consumers of music and audio related products, not industry insiders. So, if the Pono PR has generated negativity, maybe that should be taken as a genuine reaction by consumers to the hype. Pono marketing would be wise to listen. Most of the posts I have read (or written) on Pono, express concerns but also praise Neil and his efforts to improves access to HD music.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Chris ... with respect Pono isn't the only chance ... what about the Sony High Resolution launch - why weren't you all over that with praise and promotion?

 

Pono is our only chance currently.

 

Nobody can be "all over" every product launch or potential good thing. I talked to the Sony people at CEDIA and CES. As it stands now I don't see Sony's approach taking off in the audiophile market or the "civilian" market.

 

 

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be saying that Pono is a good thing ... but do you really not understand where most of the criticisms and negativity is coming from?

 

I don't understand why people find the negatives and post them immediately in addition to speculation that falls on the negative side rather that giving the benefit of the doubt. Here are some negatives seen on the first page of this thread, with the exception of one. Is this all people have to say about a product that could provide this entire community more enjoyment?

 

Kickstarter

Error saying albums rather than tracks in press release

Price of player

Little information in press release

Not posting the press release on the Pono site

Speculation about price of music

Odd shape

Won't fit into pocket

Metadata in the press image bad

 

 

Hopefully they will take the negativity as being more constructive than destructive. Where has anyone not wanted Pono to succeed ... just (as I've noted before) the press release is full of nice platitudes while offering very little detail. I know Neil Young has his presentation sometime today so maybe more details will be forthcoming...

 

Eloise

 

Press releases aren't supposed to be white papers or design documents. Show me one press release where all the questions in this thread would be answered. Nobody issues a press release with enough detail to satisfy everyone.

 

I understand people are excited, as am I, but we need to be patient.

[labjr]

Don't forget:

 

Dead Battery in photo shoot.

[Hiro]

Pono is our only chance currently.

 

Nobody can be "all over" every product launch or potential good thing. I talked to the Sony people at CEDIA and CES. As it stands now I don't see Sony's approach taking off in the audiophile market or the "civilian" market.

 

Talk about the negativity.

 

Sony introduced a range of new audio components (including DACs, HDD players, and portable players) with hi-res file support, created a website linking to all hi-res music stores (including HDTracks, SuperHiRez, etc) yet their approach isn't going to take off. Oh well. Pono portable is our only chance.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Talk about the negativity.

 

Sony introduced a range of new audio components (including DACs, HDD players, and portable players) with hi-res file support, created a website linking to all hi-res music stores (including HDTracks, SuperHiRez, etc) yet their approach isn't going to take off. Oh well. Pono portable is our only chance.

Hiro - If you are only at CA to support DSD and stir the pot, you're here for the wrong reasons. Many companies have released "DACs, HDD players, and portable players" lately. I'm talking about high resolution downloads being accessible to the mass market. Sony releasing DSD isn't going to get the mass market excited.

 

The fact that Neil Young is behind Pono is huge. Look what big names have done for headphones. NO way would I have guessed $200-$300 headphones would be the norm for mass market stores. Yet, they are.

[NOMBEDES]

I would remind that while a lot of posts appear overly negative just for the sake of being negative, not all on this thread nor on the site are negative to the concept; rather many of us are supportive of Polo, at least as a concept.

 

This is yet another example of any voices of positivity being drowned by a few very vocal negative people. In fact, the two people who have heard the Pono were both attacked (yes, they were attacked personally by having their credibility called into question). Sadly, some who thought the idea was good were insulted by calling them "fanboys" in a dismissive, derogatory manner. So why would anyone post something positive if they are going to face name calling and attacks on their credibility? I am saddened that some feel it is their personal job to personally attack those they disagree with (questioning professional credibility and name calling are basic personal attacks).

 

It doesn't reflect well on the audiophile community and doesn't match the open, sharing that I generally find to be the case when people get together and listen to music. I have never had someone over that said I lacked the credentials to prefer one file format on my system over another. Nor have I have I ever had someone come over and call me names because I like a particular product line. These things happen here perhaps because we sometimes forget that we are dealing with real people on the other end of the post.

 

I, for one, applaud Neil for his years of work trying to address the MP3 problem. I know of no more outspoken artist on our behalf and that alone has earned my respect. If Pono works or doesn't work it won't change my opinion for trying to make a difference.

 

Best,

John

 

 

 

Good Post. Agree 100 per cent. I find the community very welcoming. Even allowing home visits to listen to systems that I could never afford. One wonders where the name calling and other crap comes from.

 

 

Someone commented on the Neil Young Question thread that Mr. Young should be invited to join Computer Audiophile and participate. Bad idea. We want Mr. Young to continue to support the improvement of Sound Quality. Not run screaming into the night.

[Hiro]

Hiro - If you are only at CA to support DSD and stir the pot...

 

I simply pointed out that your post about Sony's approach (that is to support all standard hi-res formats) not being able to take off rather negative and unfounded.

 

Is the Pono player superior to the new Sony?

 

http://www.whathifi.com/review/nwz-zx1

 

I'm talking about high resolution downloads being accessible to the mass market.

 

I really would like to know what Pono service will be able to offer HDTracks or SuperHiRez store can't.

[Audio_ELF]

Pono is our only chance currently.

 

Nobody can be "all over" every product launch or potential good thing. I talked to the Sony people at CEDIA and CES. As it stands now I don't see Sony's approach taking off in the audiophile market or the "civilian" market.

Sorry this is getting more and more off topic but...

 

No you can't be "all over" every product launch. But I'm sure people might be interested in some comment how Sony's audio market place. Given Sony's potential for access to record labels this could be exciting. Perhaps it has fallen flat on it's face already. Perhaps the files are a load of crap. Some exploration of this and other market places might actually be of use for people. Or (and perhaps I am being too personal here) is this web site all about YOU and how much YOU can get out of it?

 

Back to your statement "Pono is our only chance currently" ... actually so far Pono only has the potential to be a chance. Nothing has been shown. Neil Young states he wants musicians to be involved in the process and get the sound that they heard in the recording studio ... I would be more convinced he is actually able to do this if he had other musicians standing up with him and agreeing that they WANT people to listen to music in better mastering versions. Or are we just going to have a music store with the same haphazardly produced masters that are in HDTracks (and others).

 

I don't understand why people find the negatives and post them immediately in addition to speculation that falls on the negative side rather that giving the benefit of the doubt. Here are some negatives seen on the first page of this thread, with the exception of one. Is this all people have to say about a product that could provide this entire community more enjoyment?

 

Kickstarter

Error saying albums rather than tracks in press release

Price of player

Little information in press release

Not posting the press release on the Pono site

Speculation about price of music

Odd shape

Won't fit into pocket

Metadata in the press image bad

Why are people negative? Well perhaps (to criticise Pono) because no one knows anything ... as you say in CA TV Episode 4 it's all a mystery. I'm not sure if Pono are being deliberately mysterious or if they just have rubbish PR team. Things like attention to details in press releases make people feel good and suggest that the company as a whole may be paying attention to details.

 

On one hand we have industry insiders - You and Scot Hull (Part Time Audiophile) saying how it's wonderful without (as far as I'm aware) having ever heard or seen the device. A comment like "Sure player x is cheaper, but ... it's cheaper" doesn't really help to present a balanced view of the device. It sounds like PR has some people enthused, while the same PR team who leave questions and ignore the details which leave to criticism has to be stamped out!

 

Press releases aren't supposed to be white papers or design documents. Show me one press release where all the questions in this thread would be answered. Nobody issues a press release with enough detail to satisfy everyone.

I agree, I press release isn't supposed to be a white paper, nor is it a design document. But excluding the information that Pono and Ayre have collaborated in the design, etc. and a few scant details of the Player specs (128GB memory; that it has a touch screen and will be $399 initially through Kickstarter) was there any new information about what Pono is and there is no technical details. They could at least have had details (as release information of almost ever portable device I've ever seen has) telling us the supported file formats...

 

I understand people are excited, as am I, but we need to be patient.

I'm sorry but I can't agree with this ... if Pono weren't ready to release details; then what is the point of a press release which just leaves you asking more basic questions.

 

I accept we have a different view coming from the information accessible to each of us ... perhaps the additional information you have which you cannot share makes you feel more confident in Pono being able to offer something to the consumer; but for those of us with only the information publicly available it's a music service which offers something above CD resolution at a cost we can only guess at which may playback only on one device which looks like the mutant offspring of a Steve Moffat designed Dalek and a Toblerone or may play on other devices.

 

Eloise

[The Computer Audiophile]

I simply pointed out that your post about Sony's approach (that is to support all standard hi-res formats) not being able to take off rather negative and unfounded.

Sorry if I came off a bit harsh in my post.

[beetlemania]

Someone commented on the Neil Young Question thread that Mr. Young should be invited to join Computer Audiophile and participate. Bad idea. We want Mr. Young to continue to support the improvement of Sound Quality. Not run screaming into the night.

 

No doubt! Manufacturers hardly ever post on CA anymore. Why should they when they inevitably are: 1) assumed to be only in it to make the next payment on their Ferrari; or 2) harassed and belittled for their design choices.

 

I don't remember if it was on this thread or one listed in the "link backs" wherein someone wrote about Neil Young being a sell-out or something to that effect. Incivility is too often a pillar of Internet forums.

[Audio_ELF]

No doubt! Manufacturers hardly ever post on CA anymore. Why should they when they inevitably are: 1) assumed to be only in it to make the next payment on their Ferrari; or 2) harassed and belittled for their design choices.

With respect ... several manufacturers have used CA to harass and belittle other companies for their design choice!

[beetlemania]

With respect ... several manufacturers have used CA to harass and belittle other companies for their design choice!

 

Would this be the same "respect" you've given Chris in this thread? And to the extent your statement might be true, it's not a mystery that each designer thinks they've made the "best" design choices, regardless of any possible motivation for financial gain.

[Audio_ELF]

Would this be the same "respect" you've given Chris in this thread? And to the extent your statement might be true, it's not a mystery that each designer thinks they've made the "best" design choices, regardless of any possible motivation for financial gain.

I have apologised for some of my comments ... I still feel though that he is accepting that Pono *is a good thing* in an unquestioning manner.

 

Please correct any of the following statements...

No one (or at least very few) has listened to a Pono Player.

No one has seen the extent of the music available not he Pono Music Store.

No one knows the source of the music on Pono Music Store (same master as CD, etc. or a special master).

 

Given those threes simple statements, no one knows if Pono is going to sound good. Add to that the unknown such as price of downloads and how it will be marketed, then why is is wrong to be skeptical?

 

Eloise

[sm31]

At an earlier point, Chris was much more skeptical about Pono. Now he is supportive, based in large part on information he is not allowed to share ATM. I'd trust, then, that the details may prove to be interesting.

 

In any case, we should know soon enough.

[bfalls]

I have apologised for some of my comments ... I still feel though that he is accepting that Pono *is a good thing* in an unquestioning manner.

 

Please correct any of the following statements...

No one (or at least very few) has listened to a Pono Player.

No one has seen the extent of the music available not he Pono Music Store.

No one knows the source of the music on Pono Music Store (same master as CD, etc. or a special master).

 

Given those threes simple statements, no one knows if Pono is going to sound good. Add to that the unknown such as price of downloads and how it will be marketed, then why is is wrong to be skeptical?

 

Eloise

 

I will correct your statment that no one (or at least very few) have listended to PONO. Neil has demonstrated it to music industry executives and other artists (Bruce Springsteen, Sting, Elton John) - this is exactly what he and his team should do by building the base that can actually make it happen. The fact that you are not aware is irrelevant at this point.

[flatmap]

Here's the way I look at it. Pono is a yet-to-be-fully defined product that we're intensely interested in, and most of us hope to see it done right.

 

I totally agree with how Neil Young describes the motivation for this. It's totally about the music listening experience. And if there's really no DRM, and the PONO device turns out to be a high res digital music player built by Ayre for $399, then I'm in. Just think about it: a $399 transportable music player by Ayre!

 

I'm not put off by the kickstarter approach -- this has brought a lot of terrific art and technology products into existence. So yeah there are still things that can go wrong, but no question for me that this is a horse worth betting on. I have March 15th marked on my calendar.

[Munchoba]

They should get U2 to sponsor a (Product)RED edition. It would be the Bono Pono.

 

What if Yoko Ono bought one? Would it be... (wait for it...) Yoko Ono's Pono? Or Yoko's Pono?

Variations are staggering.

[Audio_ELF]

I will correct your statment that no one (or at least very few) have listended to PONO. Neil has demonstrated it to music industry executives and other artists (Bruce Springsteen, Sting, Elton John) - this is exactly what he and his team should do by building the base that can actually make it happen.

My meaning (which I didn't make clear) is no-one who has posted here has heard the device.

 

I agree that showing / demonstrating it to other artists and those music executives who make the decisions about such things ... but that doesn't stop us being frustrated over the lack of information.

 

On the other hand ... if he is wanting to sell to the consumer market (who are buying Dr Dre and Skull Candy headphones) as I believe was the stated aim ... perhaps getting some modern artists on board might be a better idea. (Spoken tongue in cheek)

 

The fact that you are not aware is irrelevant at this point.

It depends in what manner you say it is irrelevant ... it IS relevant that I am unaware if you are criticising me for being skeptical about a project because there is no information available.

 

I will again also invite you to introduce yourself so that your comments can be judged on their merit - currently you are someone who (prior to this thread) posted 4 times; once regarding the Metric Halo LIO and twice regarding battery technology.

 

Eloise