Neil young announces the launch of ponomusic

[Don Hills]

I'm pretty sure the latest remasterings were done @24/192. ...

 

 

Thank you both. Looks like my memory is the second thing to go with age. I forget what the first one was...

[oneway23]

I'm very cautiously considering a signed "Pearl Jam" model, though I first wanted to cover one very important clarification:

 

If I've currently got a desktop-based DAC/powered speaker set-up that I am more than content with, is it possible, then, to access the Pono software and buy songs from the Pono store, but play back the purchased files through software such as Foobar or Mediamonkey?

 

I would like to presume yes, as the format is .FLAC, but I'd like to be certain prior to such an investment.

 

Another consideration for home-based use:

 

If this player has no digital out, is there a way to add this device to a pre-existing signal chain that doesn't involve unplugging a pre-existing DAC in order to use one's Pono to feed an amp or a set of powered speakers in order to hear the handful of albums purchased from the store?

 

 

Thanks for the insight.

[pgwoooster]

Hi All,

 

New member here. And yes Im going to be negative. Heres the thing, noone can hear the difference between hi-rez and normal rez versions of the same master. Remastered music is fantastic, I love it. But guess what? A remastered 192k mp3 will sound much better than a hi-rez lossless version of a poor master. So unless everything (that sucks) is getting remastered, and by that I generally mean its not as loud, this whole thing is pointless.

 

There's one other issue that really irritates me. Its the amount of sheer audiophile wank I hear, not just in the PRs already posted, but from the great man himself.

 

"Hearing Pono for the first time is like that first blast of daylight when you leave a movie theatre on a sun-filled day."

 

“The simplest way to describe what we’ve accomplished is that we’ve liberated the music of the artist from the digital file and restored it to its original artistic quality – as it was in the studio,”

 

"MP3s have only x% of the musical info as an X" - Paraphrasing here obviously.

 

Has he every blind tested this? I can guarantee his 68 year old ears cant tell the difference between 192k MP3 and hi-rez lossless. I'll also guarantee if you asked him if he could tell the difference between 320kps and CD , or CD and hi-rez he'd say "Of course I can. Its like night and day!". The idea for giving the benefit of the doubt to someone selling you an audiophile experience is laughable. Remember bit rates and resolution are to cables as mastering is to headphones and speakers. One matters the other doesn't. So yes lets all get up on our high horses and complain about poor mastering, but for Gods sake lets not get excited about listening to lossless hi-rez files outside a listening room.

 

 

Pip Pip.

[Jud]

My original comment was "no one (or at least very few) has listened to a Pono Player"; you then commented that Neil had demonstrated to other musicians and to industry executives so I modified my statement to "no-one who has posted here has heard the device" my apologies for excluding you in the second statement.

 

I'm sorry if I have offended you by asking who "bfalls" is. All I mean is: are you a musician; an engineer; an electronics engineer? I'm just trying to put your comments in context but each time I ask you stonewall me.

 

Eloise

 

Eloise and bfalls, I'd like you two to get to know each other better than this forum has so far allowed.

 

Yes, bfalls, Eloise is a person of a skeptical bent who likes factual information (and is very precise about it once she gets it). She's also been an extremely helpful contributor to this forum (especially for newbies) for some years now. There are lots of people now listening to better music than they were before because of her.

 

Eloise, I think bfalls has mistaken your desire to know more and to be precise with facts for aggressiveness and a negative attitude. For someone who doesn't know you (as much as we can from your comments here) and hasn't seen your past history of being helpful, this isn't an unnatural thing.

 

So bfalls, I'm curious as well to know whatever you'd care to tell us about your background. (If you've ever been in the room with NY strumming on a guitar, I am officially jealous.) And Eloise, if you can suppress your natural desire to get to the facts in order to give bfalls a little breathing room....

[Jud]

Why assume it can't be used that way? It has to be connected to your PC to upload songs . . .

And if it's not a feature now, Chris says the Pono team is following this thread . . . it seems a simple feature to add before production starts.

 

 

I don't know how simple a feature it is to add (the ability to play music as a computer-connected DAC), but I'd love it if they did.

[labjr]

In the video Neil talks about how 96Khz sounds like it's still 20ft under water. And other artists tout the 192khz sound quality. Sting even seems to be lumping high resolution with CD when compared to Pono. And Sting was one of the first artists to put a full digital studio in his house back in the late 80's. So he's no beginner in the studio.

 

Thus I would think Pono will only be selling 192khz albums. Hopefully, only Neil approved newly remastered versions. If it's the same old surprise-bag smorgasbord of unpredictable "DON'T-BLAME-US-WE-ONLY-SELL-WHAT-THEY-GIVE-US" junk that HDtracks sells then Pono would quickly get a reputation. I don't think they want that.

[Audio_ELF]

Quote from ponomusic.com FAQ

 

No. We want to be very clear that PonoMusic is not a new audio file format or standard. It is an end-to-end ecosystem for music lovers to get access to and enjoy their favorite music in the highest resolution possible for that song or album. The music in the PonoMusic.com store is sold and downloaded in industry standard audio file formats.

The PonoMusic Store uses FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) audio format as its standard, for compatibility, although the PonoPlayer can play most popular high-resolution music formats from other sources. PonoMusic has a quality spectrum, ranging from really good to really great, depending on the quality of the available master recordings:

 

• CD lossless quality recordings: 1411 kbps (44.1 kHz/16 bit) FLAC files

• High-resolution recordings: 2304 kbps (48 kHz/24 bit) FLAC files

• Higher-resolution recordings: 4608 kbps (96 kHz/24 bit) FLAC files

• Ultra-high resolution recordings: 9216 kbps (192 kHz/24 bit) FLAC files

In the video Neil talks about how 96Khz sounds like it's still 20ft under water. And other artists tout the 192khz sound quality. Sting even seems to be lumping high resolution with CD when compared to Pono. And Sting was one of the first artists to put a full digital studio in his house back in the late 80's. So he's no beginner in the studio.

 

Thus I would think Pono will only be selling 192khz albums. Hopefully, only Neil approved newly remastered versions. If it's the same old surprise-bag smorgasbord of unpredictable "DON'T-BLAME-US-WE-ONLY-SELL-WHAT-THEY-GIVE-US" junk that HDtracks sells then Pono would quickly get a reputation. I don't think they want that.

[beetlemania]

Has he every blind tested this? I can guarantee his 68 year old ears cant tell the difference between 192k MP3 and hi-rez lossless. I'll also guarantee if you asked him if he could tell the difference between 320kps and CD , or CD and hi-rez he'd say "Of course I can. Its like night and day!".

Pip Pip.[/color][/font]

 

I used the foobar2000 comparator (blind test) to convince myself that I wasn't just imagining the sonic superiority of hi-res files. I was able to reliably distinguish 16/44 from 24/44 (but not 24/44 from 24/192). See you back over at hydrogenaudio. Quick! Race you there!

[pgwoooster]

I used the foobar2000 comparator (blind test) to convince myself that I wasn't just imagining the sonic superiority of hi-res files. I was able to reliably distinguish 16/44 from 24/44 (but not 24/44 from 24/192). See you back over at hydrogenaudio. Quick! Race you there!

 

 

I take my comment back unreservedly and my sincerest apologies Mr Young. You are Neil Young right?

[Superdad]

Did you guys watch the video at the Ponomusic site? All the raves he got from all those musicians were from hearing PONO in his car. That must be some sound system Neil has installed in his Cadillac!

 

I'm excited--especially that he is getting people behind it and that the Pono store could be a place to buy more hi-res FLAC albums--but I am a little concerned/confused by one thing:

All those recording artists have spent a lot of time in studios--and presumably they have halfway decent systems at home--yet they raved that they have never heard anything so good as what they just heard in Neil Young's car? I am wondering--and from their voices it's not too much of a stretch--if some hi-resolution herbs were not part of the demo.

 

Again, I just have a tough time believing that not of these artists have listened to a halfway decent DAC with 24/96 files before...

[Don Hills]

I don't know how simple a feature it is to add (the ability to play music as a computer-connected DAC), but I'd love it if they did.

 

It's a requirement for me. I'd like to listen through while I'm selecting files for download to my player, and when I decide I want to listen to something off the laptop instead of the player. (The headphone out on my laptop sounds noticeably worse than that on my current player, and I dislike swapping back and forth.)

 

Looking at the photos of the prototype internals, I have high hopes for its ability to drive awkward loads. The case shape has allowed them to use what appear to be decent sized output capacitors. They say it also allows a cylindrical battery, but with a quoted 8 hours run time I wish they'd gone for a slightly larger case and tripled the battery life.

 

But the biggest problem I see is the music - for all Neil's talk about hearing the music the way the artists wants us to hear it, there's no indication that there'll be any remastering, for example to provide resolutions closer to the original resolution or to back out some of the over-done processing of many releases. What are they going to offer to differentiate themselves (and make them preferable) to any other online HD reseller?

 

... and will Ponomusic sell worldwide, or US only?

[Superdad]

Also, we now all get to speculate about who is doing the software development for the desktop player/library management app.

Chris, if you read this while still at SXSW, can you probe around a bit about that?

[pgwoooster]

Did you guys watch the video at the Ponomusic site? All the raves he got from all those musicians were from hearing PONO in his car. That must be some sound system Neil has installed in his Cadillac!

 

I'm excited--especially that he is getting people behind it and that the Pono store could be a place to buy more hi-res FLAC albums--but I am a little concerned/confused by one thing:

All those recording artists have spent a lot of time in studios--and presumably they have halfway decent systems at home--yet they raved that they have never heard anything so good as what they just heard in Neil Young's car? I am wondering--and from their voices it's not too much of a stretch--if some hi-resolution herbs were not part of the demo.

 

Again, I just have a tough time believing that not of these artists have listened to a halfway decent DAC with 24/96 files before...

 

 

An elderly musician, whom you admire so much you'll gladly appear in a free Ad along side him, tells you about this awesome new sound system he has. It'll blow everything else out of the water. It like walking into sunshine after the cinema! It really is!

 

Yep, no expectation bias there at all.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Also, we now all get to speculate about who is doing the software development for the desktop player/library management app.

Chris, if you read this while still at SXSW, can you probe around a bit about that?

I believe the device runs Android. No comment on the desktop software.

[Audio_ELF]

I believe the device runs Android. No comment on the desktop software.

Is it too late for questions... Can you ask about availability of the Music Store in Europe?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Is it too late for questions... Can you ask about availability of the Music Store in Europe?

Certainly. Anything for you Eloise :~)

[labjr]

Did you guys watch the video at the Ponomusic site? All the raves he got from all those musicians were from hearing PONO in his car. That must be some sound system Neil has installed in his Cadillac!

 

I'm excited--especially that he is getting people behind it and that the Pono store could be a place to buy more hi-res FLAC albums--but I am a little concerned/confused by one thing:

All those recording artists have spent a lot of time in studios--and presumably they have halfway decent systems at home--yet they raved that they have never heard anything so good as what they just heard in Neil Young's car? I am wondering--and from their voices it's not too much of a stretch--if some hi-resolution herbs were not part of the demo.

 

Again, I just have a tough time believing that not of these artists have listened to a halfway decent DAC with 24/96 files before...

 

Good musicians may not have DACs or high end systems, but they usually have an old record collection. I remember Elton John had a room with CD's on all 4 walls. And a lot of bubblegum pop stuff I would never buy. You'd think they'd be the first ones with the high end systems.

 

I think a lot of the old timers interviewed are fanatics the studio. Didn't Tom Petty oversee the remastering of unlimited 24-96 version of Damn the Torpedoes a few years ago?

 

I love how Neil drives that old Caddy. In an interview a couple years ago he spoke about how he demoed his idea in his Cadillac. I thought he was talking about a new Cadillac.

 

I have friends that drive old Cadillacs. One friend had a mint triple white Sedan Deville Brougham. I think it was the last year they made them. He used to park it across the street in a big parking lot so nobody would ding the doors. One day a dump truck jumped the curb and crushed the car.

[Audio_ELF]

Certainly. Anything for you Eloise :~)

You are my knight :-)

[lithium1085]

Regardless of our personal feelings, the general public has voted with their wallets and the kickstarter campaign is already at almost 50% pledged. I went through their FAQs and their website and I felt that my concerns about a proprietary file format have been cleared. It is was even good to see a specific question for audiophiles on their FAQ page.

 

Hopefully, this player will help in making more higher resolution music available in the future. Also, all the artists in their video would also hopefully insist on recording at higher quality. This could turn out to be the one of the biggest boosts to our hobby in years.

 

P.S- I am not even buying one so hopefully I will not be branded a "fanboy"...LOL

[Superdad]

No comment on the desktop software.

 

Sorry to press you, but does that mean you know something (about the desktop s/w) you can't comment on, or that no information has been revealed to you? I suppose it does not matter either way. I'm just hoping, among other design goals, that a really great new Mac OS X player/library manager comes out of this--and not just a warmed over or customized version of some existing MOR player.

[Audio_ELF]

I may have missed this in the details but I will ask anyway...

 

While I understand Neil Young's loathing for compressed audio formats; are there any details if the PonoPlayer will play MP3 and AAC and for that matter Apple Lossless format given that a lot of users may have files in these formats.

 

Eloise

[bfalls]

Eloise and bfalls, I'd like you two to get to know each other better than this forum has so far allowed.

 

Yes, bfalls, Eloise is a person of a skeptical bent who likes factual information (and is very precise about it once she gets it). She's also been an extremely helpful contributor to this forum (especially for newbies) for some years now. There are lots of people now listening to better music than they were before because of her.

 

Eloise, I think bfalls has mistaken your desire to know more and to be precise with facts for aggressiveness and a negative attitude. For someone who doesn't know you (as much as we can from your comments here) and hasn't seen your past history of being helpful, this isn't an unnatural thing.

 

So bfalls, I'm curious as well to know whatever you'd care to tell us about your background. (If you've ever been in the room with NY strumming on a guitar, I am officially jealous.) And Eloise, if you can suppress your natural desire to get to the facts in order to give bfalls a little breathing room....

 

I am somewhat private and do not normally participate much on blogs for that reason. This was a particular case where I had information that both Neil and I thought would be helpful. I have been working with Neil for the last couple of years because I'm Director of Engineering for an advanced automotive technology center and we turned his '59 Lincoln into an advanced technology demonstrator based on electric drive, large format Li-ion batteries, and cellulosic ethanol combustion engine for range extension. The LincVolt (as it is known) also has the sound system to demonstrate PONO. In addition, my system at home has been entirely converted to use the large format battery technology to become the power supply for the components - no grid connection. Neil was intrigued with the concept and gave me the PONO to evaluate in my system when he visited. I used PONO as a music server/dac going into my preamplifier and it works great - that is part of the idea that it is portable with headphones but can be connected to your car or home system easily.

[jhwalker]

I may have missed this in the details but I will ask anyway...

 

While I understand Neil Young's loathing for compressed audio formats; are there any details if the PonoPlayer will play MP3 and AAC and for that matter Apple Lossless format given that a lot of users may have files in these formats.

 

Eloise

 

From the FAQ on the Kickstarter page:

 

Can I play digital music files I already own on my PonoPlayer?

Yes, you can and it will probably sound better on the PonoPlayer than you've ever heard it.

The PonoPlayer is designed to play PonoMusic with stunning clarity. However, the player can play almost any kind of music track including FLAC, ALAC, mp3, WAV, AIFF, AAC (unprotected).

What this really means is the PonoPlayer can play all your digital music, and all of it will sound great.

[Audio_ELF]

Thank you... That was very interesting.

I am somewhat private and do not normally participate much on blogs for that reason. This was a particular case where I had information that both Neil and I thought would be helpful. I have been working with Neil for the last couple of years because I'm Director of Engineering for an advanced automotive technology center and we turned his '59 Lincoln into an advanced technology demonstrator based on electric drive, large format Li-ion batteries, and cellulosic ethanol combustion engine for range extension. The LincVolt (as it is known) also has the sound system to demonstrate PONO. In addition, my system at home has been entirely converted to use the large format battery technology to become the power supply for the components - no grid connection. Neil was intrigued with the concept and gave me the PONO to evaluate in my system when he visited. I used PONO as a music server/dac going into my preamplifier and it works great - that is part of the idea that it is portable with headphones but can be connected to your car or home system easily.

[Audio_ELF]

Thanks... I thought I should have read that somewhere...

From the FAQ on the Kickstarter page:

 

Can I play digital music files I already own on my PonoPlayer?

Yes, you can and it will probably sound better on the PonoPlayer than you've ever heard it.

The PonoPlayer is designed to play PonoMusic with stunning clarity. However, the player can play almost any kind of music track including FLAC, ALAC, mp3, WAV, AIFF, AAC (unprotected).

What this really means is the PonoPlayer can play all your digital music, and all of it will sound great.