Opinions Wanted: What is the most Analog Sounding DAC?

[babybear]

I am not so sure that a reference SOTA analog setup should be the comparison. Especially if one uses price to base "reference" upon. From the listening I have been able to do, the higher up the audiophile ladder you go in analog, the more digital it starts to sound.

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

In all of the endless debates throughout the years about how vinyl and digital playback compare in sound and which is better, etc. this is the first time I have ever seen the statement you have made here. I was wondering if you could expand on this statement and provide more detail as to what you mean. Can you explain what vinyl front ends you have compared to what digital front ends and what are the particulars of the systems you have done this in and what are the sonic attributes that you heard in these comparisons that lead you to make the statement that as you get up the ladder in analog (I assume you mean vinyl playback) it sounds more like digital? This is fascinating to me.

 

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

 

Arnie

[edorr]

I am not so sure that a reference SOTA analog setup should be the comparison. Especially if one uses price to base "reference" upon. From the listening I have been able to do, the higher up the audiophile ladder you go in analog, the more digital it starts to sound.

 

Digital sound is better in almost every measurable way, usually sounding far more accurate to the source. So why is analog so very appealing?

 

Other than that, I think I agree with you almost perfectly. What terms would you use to describe the differences between analog and digital "sounds?" (Knowing of course, that every system is going to sound different. )

 

And in the digital world, what DACs seem to provide the same magic?

 

I'm not in favor of the refering to "analog" and "digital" sounding. More appropriate would be to simply refer to most "musical" sounding. (I guess with the live event at a 100 on a scale of zero to 100).

[Paul R]

Hi Arnie -

 

 

Actually, it seems so clear to me, I am a bit surprised that you have not heard the same thing before. Perhaps it is something unique to my perspective.

 

Digital is precise - very very precise. Individual timing errors in digital playback are well below anyone’s ability to hear. Aggregate timing errors however, are very much audible in digital playback, tending to smear the sound, add harshness, and other unsavory and unwanted characteristics.

 

Low end vinyl playback, especially low end belt driven playback, is sloppy about timing. Very sloppy indeed, so much so that, for example, a Rega RP1 (with performance pack) quickly becomes unlistenable for me. The pitch variations caused by unstable platter speed drives me bonkers. I guess I am very sensitive to it.

 

In the Rega line, platter speed seems to be unstable until you get into the RP6 line with the upgraded 24v power supplies and platters with enhanced flywheel like effects. For me at least, in this range of turntables, the cartridge makes less difference than the table speed stability. Of course, when you start getting up in the $3K+ range for belt drive turntables, the speed starts to get really stable and the cartridge / arm combination starts to make the most impact.

 

Note: I use a cheap Technics SL1200 Clone table here. Direct drive from a DC motor, with quartz locked platter speed. Not as good as the better mid range tables in speed stability, but far better than any of the entry level belt drive tables.

 

So the higher up in the vinyl line you go, the more precise the sound becomes, in terms of timing and stability. Ergo, to me, the more digital it sounds. That timing precision is what I hear first in a digital sound, and yes, it sounds a bit unnatural to me at first. So do SOTA turntables, and probably for the same reason.

 

Secondly, (good) digital sound is to me, very neutral, uncolored, and throws a precise, detailed, and layered soundstage. The further up you go in vinyl playback, the more neutral and uncolored the sound is. The more detailed and layered the soundstage becomes, and the more information you are retrieving from the vinyl. Again, an exact analog to good digital sound to me, and the more alike the two sources sound to me. (In general of course, there are always exceptions.)

 

I put the below together from memory, so I may have missed a couple tables or so. Been working at this pretty much as a hobby.

 

In the past year or so, I have listened at home extensively to the following tables:

 

• Rega RP1 with and without Performance Pack
  
• Rega RP3-24
  
• Rega RP6
  
• Project Essential
  
• Project Debut III
  
• Project Experience Classic
  
• VPI Traveler
  
• VP I Classic 1 (my favorite)
  
• Avid Diva II
  
• (Vintage)
  
• AR-XA
  
• Thorens TD160
  
• Technics SL1200
  
• Dual xxxx <- (I forget the model number, 19 something)
  

 

 

I have been able to listen for a week or so to the following tables, borrowed from friends.

 

• ProJect Extension 10
  
• VPI Classic 4
  

 

 

I have heard the following tables at dealers, shows, or friends houses.

 

• Merril Replicant ES (odd homebuilt looking thingamajig…)
  
• Oracle Delphi 4 (?)
  
• SME Model 12 (I think)
  
• ClearAudio Concept with MM cart
  
• Linn LP 12 Sondek
  
• Various tables with no serious listening time at shows, etc.
  
• Various tables I want to forget, like the Music Hall USB-1...
  

 

 

I have the carts and specs for each table written down in my journal, and can go into much more detail offline if you wish.

 

Honestly, out of all them, the ones I like the most were the VPI CLassic 1, the Technics SL1200, and the Linn, though tall the mid range tables and above were very good. I definitely formed the impression that the better these tables were, the closer to digital they sounded. The worse ones in the bunch sounded like they were in a box and put a thick layer of scrim between me and the music. The best sounded like the best digital I have ever heard. (Which is many steps beyond my home setup.

 

To clarify, the best digital doesn’t have an edge to it that makes you squirm after just a couple minutes. Vinyl is listenable to for many hours.

 

The little cheap guy I am using at the house performs indistinguisably to me from the SL1200, and produces really good sound not even considering that it is cheap as all get out. A couple friends at a radio station in Philly turned me on to that little jewel.

 

I went ahead and replied to this now so you would know I am not pulling your chain. I honestly have forgotten what table you have, though I do remember I preferred your Esoteric digital to the turntable, if only slightly. By the way, I just looked at your pictures. What happened to those gorgeous Magicos?

 

And these are just my opinions of course, YMMV!

 

-Paul

[Paul R]

I can see that, but "musical sounding" leaves a lot of territory. "Musicality" is perhaps, closer. All those terms are descriptive of a large set of attributes though - accuracy, timing, resolution, distortion, and what have you. I have been unable to come up with a definitive definition myself.

 

It's a big subject, isn't it?

 

-Paul

 

 

I'm not in favor of the refering to "analog" and "digital" sounding. More appropriate would be to simply refer to most "musical" sounding. (I guess with the live event at a 100 on a scale of zero to 100).

[wgscott]

Probably for another thread, but I thing I missed out on analog. i might need to start going to some shows or buy a turntable because I can't recall what analog sounds like. It's funny, I read all these audio mags and blogs that complement the beauty of analog sound, but still I don't have a clue. I started to get into music in the days that DDD CDs where the best thing ever. I am 41, and to me it is interesting how people refers to the analog sound. All I remember was the records that I played in a cheap all in one system when I was 15. LOL

 

It is possible that at least part of the attraction of "analogue" sound has more to do with fond reminiscence than audio fidelity. Listening to music is a lot like using old photographs to trigger memories.

[babybear]

Hi Arnie -

 

 

Actually, it seems so clear to me, I am a bit surprised that you have not heard the same thing before. Perhaps it is something unique to my perspective.

 

Digital is precise - very very precise. Individual timing errors in digital playback are well below anyone’s ability to hear. Aggregate timing errors however, are very much audible in digital playback, tending to smear the sound, add harshness, and other unsavory and unwanted characteristics.

 

Low end vinyl playback, especially low end belt driven playback, is sloppy about timing. Very sloppy indeed, so much so that, for example, a Rega RP1 (with performance pack) quickly becomes unlistenable for me. The pitch variations caused by unstable platter speed drives me bonkers. I guess I am very sensitive to it.

 

In the Rega line, platter speed seems to be unstable until you get into the RP6 line with the upgraded 24v power supplies and platters with enhanced flywheel like effects. For me at least, in this range of turntables, the cartridge makes less difference than the table speed stability. Of course, when you start getting up in the $3K+ range for belt drive turntables, the speed starts to get really stable and the cartridge / arm combination starts to make the most impact.

 

Note: I use a cheap Technics SL1200 Clone table here. Direct drive from a DC motor, with quartz locked platter speed. Not as good as the better mid range tables in speed stability, but far better than any of the entry level belt drive tables.

 

So the higher up in the vinyl line you go, the more precise the sound becomes, in terms of timing and stability. Ergo, to me, the more digital it sounds. That timing precision is what I hear first in a digital sound, and yes, it sounds a bit unnatural to me at first. So do SOTA turntables, and probably for the same reason.

 

Secondly, (good) digital sound is to me, very neutral, uncolored, and throws a precise, detailed, and layered soundstage. The further up you go in vinyl playback, the more neutral and uncolored the sound is. The more detailed and layered the soundstage becomes, and the more information you are retrieving from the vinyl. Again, an exact analog to good digital sound to me, and the more alike the two sources sound to me. (In general of course, there are always exceptions.)

 

I put the below together from memory, so I may have missed a couple tables or so. Been working at this pretty much as a hobby.

 

In the past year or so, I have listened at home extensively to the following tables:

 

• Rega RP1 with and without Performance Pack
  
• Rega RP3-24
  
• Rega RP6
  
• Project Essential
  
• Project Debut III
  
• Project Experience Classic
  
• VPI Traveler
  
• VP I Classic 1 (my favorite)
  
• Avid Diva II
  
• (Vintage)
  
• AR-XA
  
• Thorens TD160
  
• Technics SL1200
  
• Dual xxxx <- (I forget the model number, 19 something)
  

 

 

I have been able to listen for a week or so to the following tables, borrowed from friends.

 

• ProJect Extension 10
  
• VPI Classic 4
  

 

 

I have heard the following tables at dealers, shows, or friends houses.

 

• Merril Replicant ES (odd homebuilt looking thingamajig…)
  
• Oracle Delphi 4 (?)
  
• SME Model 12 (I think)
  
• ClearAudio Concept with MM cart
  
• Linn LP 12 Sondek
  
• Various tables with no serious listening time at shows, etc.
  
• Various tables I want to forget, like the Music Hall USB-1...
  

 

 

I have the carts and specs for each table written down in my journal, and can go into much more detail offline if you wish.

 

Honestly, out of all them, the ones I like the most were the VPI CLassic 1, the Technics SL1200, and the Linn, though tall the mid range tables and above were very good. I definitely formed the impression that the better these tables were, the closer to digital they sounded. The worse ones in the bunch sounded like they were in a box and put a thick layer of scrim between me and the music. The best sounded like the best digital I have ever heard. (Which is many steps beyond my home setup.

 

To clarify, the best digital doesn’t have an edge to it that makes you squirm after just a couple minutes. Vinyl is listenable to for many hours.

 

The little cheap guy I am using at the house performs indistinguisably to me from the SL1200, and produces really good sound not even considering that it is cheap as all get out. A couple friends at a radio station in Philly turned me on to that little jewel.

 

I went ahead and replied to this now so you would know I am not pulling your chain. I honestly have forgotten what table you have, though I do remember I preferred your Esoteric digital to the turntable, if only slightly. By the way, I just looked at your pictures. What happened to those gorgeous Magicos?

 

And these are just my opinions of course, YMMV!

 

-Paul

Hi Paul,

 

Thanks for the detailed answer.

 

I think its always best to give your reference point when you make sonic comparisons instead of the generalizations that I always see posted on so many audio forums (including this one). I do agree with you that the better turntables do a much better job of speed control than lower end turntables. When the speed is off you usually hear this effect in pitch definition especially in the upper frequencies and it becomes really evident on piano notes. So, I guess from that point of view, what you said is correct. But, I guess from my viewpoint, with my turntable (and to use your terminology is also a direct drive turntable) perfect speed control is a given so I don't even think about this aspect of vinyl playback. The other very important aspect of vinyl playback that you do need to consider when you listen to any vinyl front end is the phono stage itself - you can have the best table, arm and cartridge in the world but to hear what they can do you need a corresponding high quality phono stage.

 

Since the last time you visited me, I have changed most of my system to what I hope is fundamentally my final iteration. New speakers, amplifiers (same brand, but I now use 2 sets as my speakers are bi amplified), new preamp, new phono cartridge and cabling. Once I had all of this dialed in and just show you how differently we all hear and how different our personal preferences are, I found my Esoteric P03/D03/G0s digital front end almost unlistenable in comparison to my vinyl front end. It took me about 6 months of digital front end comparisons until I settled on my current MSB digital front end which is extremely good. I still prefer my vinyl, but the MSB digital front end has closed the gap somewhat in a way that the Esoteric couldn't even come close to.

 

Arnie

[DigiPete]

Hi Arnie -

 

Actually, it seems so clear to me, I am a bit surprised that you have not heard the same thing before. Perhaps it is something unique to my perspective.

 

Digital is precise - very very precise. Individual timing errors in digital playback are well below anyone’s ability to hear. Aggregate timing errors however, are very much audible in digital playback, tending to smear the sound, add harshness, and other unsavory and unwanted characteristics.

 

. . . .

 

-Paul

 

 

I agree completely with Paul.

 

I almost grew up with a precise and detailed TT. I actually spent 20 years with it.

It always sounded very natural, musical and live to me, but it did take a few week to get used to the level of detail in the very beginning.

 

Great digital systems just sounds like a natural upgrade to me.

Examples: Genelec, Meridian or Steinway - Lyngdorf.

 

My TT:

Thorens TD 321

Mørch UP-4 tonearm

Ortofon MC 2000 pickup

Ortofon T 2000 step-up

[maelob]

Total respect for all vinyl lovers. Apologize for my ignorance but it seems to me that a lot of detailed steps are necessary to achieve "the sound". For me is a lot of work. I'll be honest, I take convenience over the ritualistic steps require to listen to vinyl. But I guess thats the beauty of this hobby, everybody have their own taste.

[wisnon]

Easy, the high end Tube Dacs

 

 

Lampizator

PDX

TotalDac

AMR

Aesthetix

Ten Audio TAD-1

Killer

 

and the non tube Dacslike,

CAD Dac

Other Total Dacs

Tranquility

Wavelength

EAR

[Paul R]

References never hurt, but I usually try to pose my opinions in a non-offensive way in an attempt to avoid writing page after page of the things. Karen says I am far too detail oriented (okay, she doesn't say it that way, but that is what she means... )

 

I also should have said *until* you get up into turntables where speed control is accurate, the speed issue overrides cartridge, arm, and electronics for me, making it unlistenable even with the best electronics. Your table is not belt driven? I thought the current wisdom was all the top tables were belt driven these days?

 

Also, I have found that the best electronics require the rest of the system to be just as good, else you wind up hearing all the other system flaws and not the music. (grin) In other words, system synergy is important, and even buying stuff used, a $20K to $30K mistake is way too painful for me to make. Besides, I think you have much better ears than I do!

 

One of these days, I plan to follow your example and build out a specific space for audio/video, with room for really top of the line gear. After I get off the golf course though! I could see myself trying to kill a rouge golfer if they crashed a ball through a window and dinged up my dream turntable or something!

 

-Paul

 

Hi Paul,

 

Thanks for the detailed answer.

 

I think its always best to give your reference point when you make sonic comparisons instead of the generalizations that I always see posted on so many audio forums (including this one). I do agree with you that the better turntables do a much better job of speed control than lower end turntables. When the speed is off you usually hear this effect in pitch definition especially in the upper frequencies and it becomes really evident on piano notes. So, I guess from that point of view, what you said is correct. But, I guess from my viewpoint, with my turntable (and to use your terminology is also a direct drive turntable) perfect speed control is a given so I don't even think about this aspect of vinyl playback. The other very important aspect of vinyl playback that you do need to consider when you listen to any vinyl front end is the phono stage itself - you can have the best table, arm and cartridge in the world but to hear what they can do you need a corresponding high quality phono stage.

 

Since the last time you visited me, I have changed most of my system to what I hope is fundamentally my final iteration. New speakers, amplifiers (same brand, but I now use 2 sets as my speakers are bi amplified), new preamp, new phono cartridge and cabling. Once I had all of this dialed in and just show you how differently we all hear and how different our personal preferences are, I found my Esoteric P03/D03/G0s digital front end almost unlistenable in comparison to my vinyl front end. It took me about 6 months of digital front end comparisons until I settled on my current MSB digital front end which is extremely good. I still prefer my vinyl, but the MSB digital front end has closed the gap somewhat in a way that the Esoteric couldn't even come close to.

 

Arnie

[spdif-usb]

Belt driven gets you less rumble but I wouldn't consider anything less than a good VPI turntable if taking that route. The better VPIs don't come cheap, though, and there's several things you can do to upgrade the Technics SL1200 (just as an example, you could put a Trans-Fi Terminator tonearm on it).

[Blake]

In the past year or so, I have listened at home extensively to the following tables:

 

• Rega RP1 with and without Performance Pack
  
• Rega RP3-24
  
• Rega RP6
  
• Project Essential
  
• Project Debut III
  
• Project Experience Classic
  
• VPI Traveler
  
• VP I Classic 1 (my favorite)
  
• Avid Diva II
  
• (Vintage)
  
• AR-XA
  
• Thorens TD160
  
• Technics SL1200
  
• Dual xxxx <- (I forget the model number, 19 something)
  

 

 

I have been able to listen for a week or so to the following tables, borrowed from friends.

 

• ProJect Extension 10
  
• VPI Classic 4
  

 

-Paul

 

Wow, and I thought I was being naughty this year in bringing home various bits of gear to demo! You have been very busy Paul. That is basically a part-time job, auditioning hi-fi toys

[bhobba]

Most analogue sounding?

 

I think that depends on what you mean by analog. Do you mean closest to the original analog master tape? Then to me its DSD into my Playback Designs DAC and DSD into my Chord QuteHD DAC - spooky real sounding to my ears and I know people who have done comparisons to master tapes from DSD and its spooky close. Do you mean close to what very high end analog systems sound like - again they are spooky close to the original tape and it would be the same answer. Do you mean sounding like your typical medium priced turntable? That depends on what factors you lock onto when listening to that stuff - I tend to lock onto a certain smoothness but to my ears it lacks dynamics and resolution - others describe it as not having a digital edge. Not hearing this digital edge personally I really cant comment on that but for smoothness I haven't heard anything to beat the Chord QuteHD DAC - its very smooth and not in anyway lacking in detail which is very unusual. I cant hear any digital edge but then again I am not sensitive to it.

 

Thanks

Bill

[babybear]

 

I also should have said *until* you get up into turntables where speed control is accurate, the speed issue overrides cartridge, arm, and electronics for me, making it unlistenable even with the best electronics. Your table is not belt driven? I thought the current wisdom was all the top tables were belt driven these days?

 

-Paul

 

Hi Paul,

 

My turntable is definitely direct drive, its called "The Beat" and it is designed and built in Idaho. Actually the correct term is magnetic drive (there is no direct mechanical contact between the motor and the platter. There is only a magnetic field between the stator and the rotor.)

 

You are correct in that most (but not all) of the tables being built today are some form of belt drive and they all try to handle the problem of consistent speed control. If you go to one of the better audio shows like RMAF you will see some very exotic belt drive turntable designs usually with multiple motors all trying to achieve the best possible speed control. Of course, that is not to say that all direct drive tables are better than all belt drive tables. As usual, it comes down to a great design and then a great implementation of that design to achieve the best possible results.

[mav52]

PS: Paul or babybear; I have never had a problem with my TT with speed, and vinyl on my TT sounds great and not digital at all.

 

 

Not hearing this digital edge personally I really cant comment on that but for smoothness I haven't heard anything to beat the Chord QuteHD DAC -

Bill

 

Bill can I ask what DSD DAC's have you compared to the Chord ? since I'm shopping for a new DAC for another system

[Paul R]

That is one sweet table my friend. I would not call a Mag drive a "direct drive" myself, I would call it a mag drive. I wonder though, with a field that strong, how do they keep it from affecting the cartridge and inducing a hum? I know it doesn't, I just wondered how.

 

Way out of my league, but very very sweet!

 

KODO THE BEAT TURNTABLE REVIEW

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

My turntable is definitely direct drive, its called "The Beat" and it is designed and built in Idaho. Actually the correct term is magnetic drive (there is no direct mechanical contact between the motor and the platter. There is only a magnetic field between the stator and the rotor.)

 

You are correct in that most (but not all) of the tables being built today are some form of belt drive and they all try to handle the problem of consistent speed control. If you go to one of the better audio shows like RMAF you will see some very exotic belt drive turntable designs usually with multiple motors all trying to achieve the best possible speed control. Of course, that is not to say that all direct drive tables are better than all belt drive tables. As usual, it comes down to a great design and then a great implementation of that design to achieve the best possible results.

[Paul R]

Well said Bill- thanks.

 

Much as it feels like picking at a sore tooth, I have lately begun to think that Teresa might have had something with saying CD resolution sound "hurt her ears." Maybe she had something there and just could not explain it in a reasonable sense. I wonder how she feels about DSD?

 

Most analogue sounding?

 

I think that depends on what you mean by analog. Do you mean closest to the original analog master tape? Then to me its DSD into my Playback Designs DAC and DSD into my Chord QuteHD DAC - spooky real sounding to my ears and I know people who have done comparisons to master tapes from DSD and its spooky close. Do you mean close to what very high end analog systems sound like - again they are spooky close to the original tape and it would be the same answer. Do you mean sounding like your typical medium priced turntable? That depends on what factors you lock onto when listening to that stuff - I tend to lock onto a certain smoothness but to my ears it lacks dynamics and resolution - others describe it as not having a digital edge. Not hearing this digital edge personally I really cant comment on that but for smoothness I haven't heard anything to beat the Chord QuteHD DAC - its very smooth and not in anyway lacking in detail which is very unusual. I cant hear any digital edge but then again I am not sensitive to it.

 

Thanks

Bill

[wgscott]

OK, so add in the DAC chip from the iPod shuffle.

[AudioDoctor]

OK, so add in the DAC chip from the iPod shuffle.

 

Ha, I have an iPod Nano and I was just thinking that whoever designed the audio circuit of this thing must like tubes, or like how the tube sound would alleviate some of digitals ills when compressed files are used...

[AudioDoctor]

Paul, you got to try a Classic 4? I am jealous, what did you think? Worth 10K?

 

I have a Classic 3 coming that I will pit against my highly modified SL1200. I want the SL1200 to win because I like it and I like saving money, but I figured it may be time to see what advances in turntable design has brought to the game. I think the only thing left to do to my SL1200 is a new tonearm. I have not ruled that out yet. What I like the most about the table is the absolute speed stability. Nothing ruins vinyl playback faster than speed inaccuracies or hunting back and forth for the proper speed, IMO.

 

What phono stage and cartridge are you using for these comparos?

[Paul R]

You bet, it's worth it but above my budget.

 

A friend loaned me a Grado Reference 1 cart, and taught me how to install it, but most of the turntables came with a cart installed (mostly all different), as they were borrowed. I admit to being too nervous about damaging anything to have changed some of them.

 

-Paul

 

 

Paul, you got to try a Classic 4? I am jealous, what did you think? Worth 10K?

 

I have a Classic 3 coming that I will pit against my highly modified SL1200. I want the SL1200 to win because I like it and I like saving money, but I figured it may be time to see what advances in turntable design has brought to the game. I think the only thing left to do to my SL1200 is a new tonearm. I have not ruled that out yet. What I like the most about the table is the absolute speed stability. Nothing ruins vinyl playback faster than speed inaccuracies or hunting back and forth for the proper speed, IMO.

 

What phono stage and cartridge are you using for these comparos?

[AudioDoctor]

You bet, it's worth it but above my budget.

 

A friend loaned me a Grado Reference 1 cart, and taught me how to install it, but most of the turntables came with a cart installed (mostly all different), as they were borrowed. I admit to being too nervous about damaging anything to have changed some of them.

 

-Paul

 

Above mine too... But I can dream!

 

I understand being hesitant, I destroyed a cart once. Luckily it was mine...

 

Did you get a Classic 3 as well? How did it compare to the others, the 4?

[Paul R]

No opportunity to listen to the 3 really, but between the 1 & the 4, the 4 was subtly better in the same way a Mercedes (4) is better than a Lexus (1).

It was smoother and more elegant.

 

I wish I could find a real Technics SL1200MK2 that wasn't $800+ or beat to death. It would be mine in a shot.

 

The little Audio Technica here is a $329 (list - available for much less on Amazon right now) clone, and the only complaints I have with it is the damping on the tonearm lift is not enough to keep from bouncing the tonearm when you lift it, and the graduated dial on the counterweight is difficult to read. Accurate, by my trusty decades old Shure stylus pressure gauge, but difficult to read.

 

 

Above mine too... But I can dream!

 

I understand being hesitant, I destroyed a cart once. Luckily it was mine...

 

Did you get a Classic 3 as well? How did it compare to the others, the 4?

[AudioDoctor]

No opportunity to listen to the 3 really, but between the 1 & the 4, the 4 was subtly better in the same way a Mercedes (4) is better than a Lexus (1).

It was smoother and more elegant.

 

I wish I could find a real Technics SL1200MK2 that wasn't $800+ or beat to death. It would be mine in a shot.

 

The little Audio Technica here is a $329 (list - available for much less on Amazon right now) clone, and the only complaints I have with it is the damping on the tonearm lift is not enough to keep from bouncing the tonearm when you lift it, and the graduated dial on the counterweight is difficult to read. Accurate, by my trusty decades old Shure stylus pressure gauge, but difficult to read.

 

Keep looking, you'll find one. I got both of the ones I had from Craigslist for ~$250 each. When you find one, you will need this link: KAB ELECTRO ACOUSTICS

[firedog]

It is possible that at least part of the attraction of "analogue" sound has more to do with fond reminiscence than audio fidelity. Listening to music is a lot like using old photographs to trigger memories.

 

yes. And another factor: many who degrade digital setups have never heard a good one, as opposed to many on this forum.