'Audiophile' Ethernet Cables.

[MikeJazz]

 

TCP/IP is 100% error free in our systems.

As long as the buffers in our playback software are set correct we will never hear any difference using audio grade UTP cables.

 

There was a comment made by someone here that it's not impossible to have electrical noise being propagated on the UTP cables. They are copper...and I have seen them used as speaker cables...so the electrical/power noises should be considered...

 

One day I experiemented with a "better" isoladed power cord on my NAS, connected away from the Hi-Fi.

When I suspected I heard a slighty better result (on a very subjective level), I handed dos cables back to it's owner and never wanted to wonder again...it's disturbing just to think about that possibility...

 

So I went back to immerse in music and try only to give attention to changes that make clear, perceptible improvements!

[Oystein]

Yes, propagated noise can influence the signal. It is not the cable but data protocol which prevents us from getting unexpeted results.

The way TCI/IP is designed any altered signals would be detected by the checksum.

The signal can be flawed but it will not be undetected so it will re-transmit again to get a unaltered data package.

Otherwise we could not rely on electronic banking.

[Jud]

Yes, propagated noise can influence the signal. It is not the cable but data protocol which prevents us from getting unexpeted results.

The way TCI/IP is designed any altered signals would be detected by the checksum.

The signal can be flawed but it will not be undetected so it will re-transmit again to get a unaltered data package.

Otherwise we could not rely on electronic banking.

 

Here's the thing: With the data protocol, all you are concerned about is whether noise is kept below the level where it would cause errors in the data. But with audio, you are also concerned about noise as a purely analog phenomenon, as well as its effects on sensitive parts like the oscillators for DAC clocks.

 

That's the data protocol. I've read, but don't have any personal knowledge of, Ethernet having some amount of physical electrical isolation built in. I must leave it to others to say what effect this may have regarding the thread subject.

[Julf]

I've read, but don't have any personal knowledge of, Ethernet having some amount of physical electrical isolation built in. I must leave it to others to say what effect this may have regarding the thread subject.

 

Yes, ethernet is galvanically isolated. The input circuits have small transformers (referred to as "magnetics") for each differential twisted pair.

[VandyMan]

In applications were complete isolation is needed, Ethernet over fiber is used. The computer would be connected to an isolation transformer too.

 

Even if you believe that enough noise gets thru the Ethernet interface to effect your DAC, the audiophile Ethernet cables probably do little if anything to suppress noise vs standard well made Ethernet cables. This would be easily measurable with the correct equipment (manufacturers can hire labs to test for noise). Despite this, I don't see any specs published on "audiophile" Ethernet cables to back the marketing claims.

[Habanero Monk]

I know this is reviving a thread. I'm in the skeptical group as to any "High End" Ethernet cable having a night and day difference vs another certified to pass 5e or 6 standards cable.

 

So much so that I put a testing rig together utilizing a Cisco SG 200-8 switch with 802.3ad and a $13 BJC CAT6 12' and $350 AudioQuest Vodka 1.5 meter and some Intel CT GBe PCI-e 1X NIC's.

 

I can swap out either cable, while music is playing in J-River, without any lapse in audio playback. A member at Polk Audio and Myself have agreed to $1600 (the cost of a nice Wyred DAC) that they can't reliably pick out their high end cable when performing a SBT.

 

I'm certainly willing to offer that to anyone here.

 

Here is a video showing the proof of concept. I would setup an Audience Participation app on a phone so they could make an A/B selection when they hear the change in audio performance:

 

[reverendo]

I know this is reviving a thread. I'm in the skeptical group as to any "High End" Ethernet cable having a night and day difference vs another certified to pass 5e or 6 standards cable.

 

So much so that I put a testing rig together utilizing a Cisco SG 200-8 switch with 802.3ad and a $13 BJC CAT6 12' and $350 AudioQuest Vodka 1.5 meter and some Intel CT GBe PCI-e 1X NIC's.

 

I can swap out either cable, while music is playing in J-River, without any lapse in audio playback. A member at Polk Audio and Myself have agreed to $1600 (the cost of a nice Wyred DAC) that they can't reliably pick out their high end cable when performing a SBT.

 

I'm certainly willing to offer that to anyone here.

 

Here is a video showing the proof of concept. I would setup an Audience Participation app on a phone so they could make an A/B selection when they hear the change in audio performance:

 

let me see if I understand correctly: you're talking about the ethernet cable that leads to the computer, not the one the goes out from the computer to the DAC, right?

[Habanero Monk]

let me see if I understand correctly: you're talking about the ethernet cable that leads to the computer, not the one the goes out from the computer to the DAC, right?

 

In the context of the video, the setup that precipitated it, it is a client computer going to a USB DAC. The DAC in this instance could be USB, FireWire, PCI-e.

[reverendo]

In the context of the video, the setup that precipitated it, it is a client computer going to a USB DAC. The DAC in this instance could be USB, FireWire, PCI-e.

I understand. the scenario in which I tested was with a DAC with UPnP abilities where you actually connect the ethernet from the computer to the DAC.

[Habanero Monk]

I understand. the scenario in which I tested was with a DAC with UPnP abilities where you actually connect the ethernet from the computer to the DAC.

 

The scenario that I submitted is confined to a specific subset of people that have made a specific claim and are standing to it.

 

I've put this particular setup out there for that portion of the enthusiast population that use a computer as a client machine.

[Pumpe19]

Hello.

 

Gotta question about ethernet cables. Thing is, mine broke and so bevor buying the next cheap replacement cable i thought, why not ask the pros

 

Below my current setup:

Synology 414 NAS - Windows 10 Laptop with Roon (+Tidal Hifi) -> Ultraviolet 7 USB 2.0 -> Musical Fidelity MX-DAC -> Straight Wire Rhapsody S XLR (balanced) -> Musical Fidelity MX-HPA -> stock, unbalanced cable -> Sennheiser HD800

 

The NAS is connected via LAN to a router, which hosts a WLAN as well as a DLAN (PowerLan). Thats how my Laptop (the music transport) is connected to the network: by LAN to an DLAN oulet.

My question now is, does it make sence to use audiophile etchernet cad7 cables? Or is the degradation of the signal by the DLAN to significant to make an difference anymore?

 

Thanks for any helpfull answers.

 

Cheers,

Pumpe19

[ericuco]

Hello.

 

Gotta question about ethernet cables. Thing is, mine broke and so bevor buying the next cheap replacement cable i thought, why not ask the pros

 

Below my current setup:

Synology 414 NAS - Windows 10 Laptop with Roon (+Tidal Hifi) -> Ultraviolet 7 USB 2.0 -> Musical Fidelity MX-DAC -> Straight Wire Rhapsody S XLR (balanced) -> Musical Fidelity MX-HPA -> stock, unbalanced cable -> Sennheiser HD800

 

The NAS is connected via LAN to a router, which hosts a WLAN as well as a DLAN (PowerLan). Thats how my Laptop (the music transport) is connected to the network: by LAN to an DLAN oulet.

My question now is, does it make sence to use audiophile etchernet cad7 cables? Or is the degradation of the signal by the DLAN to significant to make an difference anymore?

 

Thanks for any helpfull answers.

 

Cheers,

Pumpe19

 

The Blue Jean Cat6a cables are popular and reasonably priced. Also, custom made to length.

 

Data Cables at Blue Jeans Cable

[Pumpe19]

Thanks ericuco for your tip about the cables, even though these brand might be a little bit hard to come by in these parts of the world (Germany).

Still, that doesn't answer my question about singal degradation over PowerLan.

[ericuco]

Thanks ericuco for your tip about the cables, even though these brand might be a little bit hard to come by in these parts of the world (Germany).

Still, that doesn't answer my question about singal degradation over PowerLan.

 

There are some threads here on CA about PowerLan. From what I have read, some people love them, some not so much. Go figure.

[Pumpe19]

Ja, that's what i feared. Seems to come down to personal preference again. For once with this audiophile stuff a nice, simple answer: powerlan is bad/great cause reasons, would have been nice.

Anyway, thanks.

 

Cheers,

Pumpe19

[Paul R]

Ja, that's what i feared. Seems to come down to personal preference again. For once with this audiophile stuff a nice, simple answer: powerlan is bad/great cause reasons, would have been nice.

Anyway, thanks.

 

Cheers,

Pumpe19

 

The nice simple answer - no, ethernet cables make no difference at all in the sound, unless they are so amazed or poorly constructed as to cause data errors - is also one that will get ethernet cable proponents throwing sharp pointy things at various parts on one's anatomy.

 

Seriously, the evidence that ethernet cables make any kind of sonic difference is all circumstantial and based upon subjective testing only. If you are comfortable with that basis, and you can hear differences in ethernet cables, then that answers your question.

 

If you can not hear differences in ethernet cables (I cannot) then it makes no difference anyway, does it?

 

Yours,

-Paul

[firedog]

Thanks ericuco for your tip about the cables, even though these brand might be a little bit hard to come by in these parts of the world (Germany).

Still, that doesn't answer my question about singal degradation over PowerLan.

 

Not hard at all, they will ship them the same day you order with customs and taxes prepaid. You'll get them within a week. Highly recommended.

[Audio_ELF]

Ja, that's what i feared. Seems to come down to personal preference again. For once with this audiophile stuff a nice, simple answer: powerlan is bad/great cause reasons, would have been nice.

Anyway, thanks.

Personal thoughts... Powerlan is bad as you are deliberately adding interference to the power line when what you are working towards is as clean power as possible.

 

So if you're making a list of what might cause a difference in sound quality in order from most relevant to least ... I'd put powerlan devices towards the top and Ethernet cables close to the bottom.

[Pumpe19]

Thanks for your answers. The variety of opinions in this thread (and elsewhere on the net) suggests that i have to test it for myself. So i ordered some AudioQuest Forest Ethernet cables. Will see.

The problem is, that my setup is that far away from the rooter and nas, that the only possible network options are power lan or wlan. Question remains: powerlan and "some kind" of ethnernet cable or plain wlan.

 

Cheers,

Pumpe19

[Paul R]

The problem is, that my setup is that far away from the rooter and nas, that the only possible network options are power lan or wlan. Question remains: powerlan and "some kind" of ethnernet cable or plain wlan.

 

Cheers,

Pumpe19

 

Just my $0.02, but I would use a Wireless LAN, and perhaps an access point. Best of both worlds then, wireless access and ease of placement, but the music device is connected by an ethernet cable.

 

Up until recently, many devices operated better with a wired ethernet connection rather than a pure wireless connection. That is not as true now as it was even two years ago, but you may find it true for your gear.

 

I would definitely voice ethernet over power lines if at all possible. It works, but it just messes around with the quality of your power.

 

-Paul

[Pumpe19]

So, you are saying WLAN is superior to Powerlan. Convenience wise for sure, but what about the quality of the signal? Any explanation why WLAN > Powerlan?

I'm not trying to be irritating, just wanna learn as much as possible to make an informed decision.

 

Thanks,

Pumpe19

[ericuco]

So, you are saying WLAN is superior to Powerlan. Convenience wise for sure, but what about the quality of the signal? Any explanation why WLAN > Powerlan?

 

From my understanding, a wireless network is immune from outside noise affecting the signal because there is no (copper) wiring which acts as an antenna in attracting noise. With a Powerlan, you not only have a large (copper) wire running a long distance (large antenna), it is also handling a fair amount of power, both of which are potentially a source of noise.

 

I use the Apple Airport Extreme & Airport Express units to "extend" my wireless network throughout my house (not wired for network w/ Ethernet cabling). There are other options (e.g. Netgear, D-link, etc.) besides the Airport devices but I have had good luck with the Apple gear.

 

As mentioned above, you could use an Airport Express (or similar) to extend your network and use its Ethernet port to connect your music system. If you need more than one port, you could the Airport Extreme (or similar) which has multiple ports OR the combination of an Airport Extreme and a small switch.

[Paul R]

So, you are saying WLAN is superior to Powerlan. Convenience wise for sure, but what about the quality of the signal? Any explanation why WLAN > Powerlan?

I'm not trying to be irritating, just wanna learn as much as possible to make an informed decision.

 

Thanks,

Pumpe19

 

Effectively, and for audio purposes, yes - a Wireless LAN can be superior to a Powerlan setup. Note that assumes you are using quality wireless components, not the $19.95 Brand stuff.

 

Quality in this case, means something equivalent to an Apple Airport Extreme or Airport Express, and that your environment doesn't have any unusual issues. Such as being located right underneath a cell tower or weather radar installation.

 

The biggest deciding factor in that to me is that the Powerlan is putting signal on the power cable, which is to any audio system, pure noise. If a fridge clicking on and off can be heard in your audio system, that noise is likely to cause some unwanted and undesirable effects.

 

-Paul

[misterspense]

In my system I was very diappointed in a wireless bridge. Then I found the existence of MoCa, where you transport network over a coax cable. You need two MoCa adapters and some extra coax cables. Assuming you have your tv set near your hifi, it's a great way to have reliable wired network, without putting high frequencies on your mains. It's strange that you don't read more about MoCa on audio fora.

[tgb]

Hi,

powerlines are bad because noisy.

audiophile ethernet cables are for well off idiophiles.

the most efficient and cheap alternative to ethernet cable to put upstream a streamer is an optical bridge.

100% of reviews and tests conclude that it is the best connection to get rid of noise coming from upstream the streamer.

and an optical bridge is not "audiophile " thus price is unique : around 120usd all included.

A no brain solution. Why bother with other stuff

rgds