'Audiophile' Ethernet Cables.

[Raym87]

So called 'audiophile' grade ethernet cables are making inroads into specialist audio dealers.

I haven't seen them mentioned on here yet so was wondering if anyone has used them and would care to relate their experience.

Logic tells me there should be no difference due the the existing ethernet protocol and the way data is shunted around. However, I await responses from those who have actually tried them.

 

OK, so it's another cable thread but maybe there's something to learn here, without provoking the arsonists.

[wgscott]

There is a reason not to buy home depot grade cat5: it tends to break.

 

I bought this and think it was well worth it in terms of not having to go under the house again to replace it:

 

Data Cables at Blue Jeans Cable (Belden 1592A).

[Musicophile]

There's even been a review by Michael Lavorgna on Audiostream.

 

AudioQuest Ethernet Cables | AudioStream

 

I'm a cable sceptic myself (I got both an analog IC and the basic USB from AQ just to "be safe" for my own psychology and because they looked decent), but when we get to Ethernet, this goes beyond me.

[djvitamind]

Earlier this year I replaced most with AudioQuest Forest Ethernet Cables. Honestly could not hear a difference but wasn't swapping them out with the old ones either. I've been happy with the quality of Audioquest cables in general and wanted a cable that would last plus were the only cables I have yet to upgrade. But again I can't remember ever having an ethernet cable go out on me, besides the plastic piece breaking off.

 

So I guess I got sucked right into that one.

[ipeverywhere]

This thing is pretty inexpensive and will test your Ethernet. Or buy anything from Fluke. Real World Certifier from Byte Brothers. Top quality handheld test equipment.

 

There is going to be a greater difference in network performance based on the switch and network card in use than the Ethernet cable in use. For critical applications I've always used fiber. Anyone want to start an Audiophile Ethernet switch company? j/k the Audioquest cables do look pretty though.

[Raym87]

A bit more research and reading online has thrown up a few surprises. I'll not reference individual articles but just summise what I have read. A good proportion but not all (as evidenced here) those that have tried them report a positive effect. Placebo? possibly, I can't answer that.

It was interesting to note that generally, those who stream direct off HDD, NAS or whatever were the most enthusiastic but those (like myself) that use a player that first loads their tracks into memory were less so. The second groups 'results' were quite logical really when you think about it as the cable plays no part in the playback operation once the track has been stored in RAM.

I conclude (though I dont guarantee) that in my particular setup, there would be little, if any gain in upgrading my cabling so my ££ willl be going elsewhere.

YMMV depending on your setup.

Now, all this still doesn't explain the point I raised in my first post.

[Jud]

as the cable plays no part in the playback operation once the track has been stored in RAM

 

It's still electrically connected, so still subject to whatever electrical noise might make its way through the cable into the rest of the system. Not saying there would necessarily be enough noise to make a difference to anything, just pointing out that a model which says there can be no possible effect at all is probably too simple.

[jtwrace]

as the cable plays no part in the playback operation once the track has been stored in RAM

 

It's still electrically connected, so still subject to whatever electrical noise might make its way through the cable into the rest of the system. Not saying there would necessarily be enough noise to make a difference to anything, just pointing out that a model which says there can be no possible effect at all is probably too simple.

 

OK. But unless there is some sort of inline filter, the purest of copper or silver will not make a difference.

[4est]

OK. But unless there is some sort of inline filter, the purest of copper or silver will not make a difference.

 

Intrinsically, a cable IS an inline filter with capacitance, inductance and resistance creating its own network, not to mention how it connects to the other gear.

[jtwrace]

Intrinsically, a cable IS an inline filter with capacitance, inductance and resistance creating its own network, not to mention how it connects to the other gear.

 

Yes, but I'm speaking about a much higher level.

[Raym87]

Correctly implemented, an ethernet port is (or should be) galvanically isolated. While not providing filtration as such, there is no physical connection between the cable port and the circuits beyond.

Is this relavant, dunno , just throwing it out there.

[ipeverywhere]

It's still electrically connected, so still subject to whatever electrical noise might make its way through the cable into the rest of the system.

 

Good point. With the PC builds, know anyone who has tested fiber gigabit in order to eliminate this?

 

The other test is to wait for the buffer to load, pull the ethernet out of the machine, then hear if there is a difference.

[13elvis247]

So yes, I believe in Ethernet cable has some effect in delivering sound, just like any other types of cables (Analog, Digital, USB, even Fiber Optic...)

 

http://meicord.de/fileadmin/files/Hi-fi_ChoiceJune2012_MeiCord_opal_en.pdf

 

I have these Meicord cables from NAS direct to Linn Akurate, however have had them in from the start so no direct testing. But the system does sound good!

[mwheelerk]

I replace all out-of-box cables with decent quality aftermarket cables right now from AudioQuest and Cardas. First I purchase to have some small peace of mind on build quality. I have experienced audible improvements on better grade interconnects, speaker cables and power cables. When it comes to digital cables including USB, FireWire, digital coax, Toslink and Ethernet impersonally have never experienced any sound improvement but would continue to buy them for build quality. I have just experienced too many equipment issues (not just with my audio system) with poor quality cables to leave the performance to chance.

[wgb113]

Try to find some Belden CAT5/CAT6 cables with their Bonded Pair technology. No voodoo there...just easily measurable performance.

 

No sound-wise...not so sure there's an improvement.

 

Bill

[mayhem13]

What a great thread.....Yes!

[cjf]

I'm a believer when it comes to using good quality cables of any flavor. Ethernet cables are a perfect medium for carrying the really ugly stuff upstream to the devices that they attach to. Adding fuel to the fire are the low dollar switches and routers found throughout most home LAN environments that use even lower dollar wall wart power supplies/wireless controllers..etc. These noise generators have a straight shot via the Ethernet cable right into your audiophile grade music server which has its own problems to deal with without the help from all the crap upstream of it.

 

While I can't say I see the need for audiophile specific Ethernet cables at this stage of the game I do see the benefits of using foil shields and twisted pair wiring for Ethernet cables in general.

 

I wrote a blog post back before the CA site upgrade occurred that reviewed an Ethernet Opto-isolator device. Unfortunately that blog post seems to have fell off the face of the earth sometime during or after the site upgrade otherwise I would link it here for your review and consideration. I use this device myself to avoid the above mentioned issues and am very happy with its performance.

 

If interested I can send you the link to the place I sourced mine from.

[sdolezalek]

It was interesting to note that generally, those who stream direct off HDD, NAS or whatever were the most enthusiastic but those (like myself) that use a player that first loads their tracks into memory were less so. The second groups 'results' were quite logical really when you think about it as the cable plays no part in the playback operation once the track has been stored in RAM.

 

I would second that notion as I have been doing some A/B comparisons between the same track stored locally on my Macbook and stored on my NAS; as long as it is stored in RAM before play, I cannot hear any difference.

[1audio]

I wrote a blog post back before the CA site upgrade occurred that reviewed an Ethernet Opto-isolator device. Unfortunately that blog post seems to have fell off the face of the earth sometime during or after the site upgrade otherwise I would link it here for your review and consideration. I use this device myself to avoid the above mentioned issues and am very happy with its performance.

 

If interested I can send you the link to the place I sourced mine from.

 

Please provide the link. All I can find are transformer based solutions.

[Paul R]

Well, yes. I was unable to detect any sonic difference between copper and fibre. Every difference I have noted has to do with how PCs handle ethernet transmissions, not the media.

 

With the exception of powerline networking, which does degrade the sound here. For lack of a better sonic descriptor, powerline networking added a "gray" background to the playback, if that makes any sense. Another way to say that is that the music sounded as if it were painted on a wall, instead of hanging in three dimensional space. Very much like the cues that provide soundstage depth were lost in some kind of noise. Annoying, and repeatable, here at least.

 

But between copper and fibre? The only fifference was in how well applications handled disk speeds. In almost every NAS based test, every application was slowed down by NAS, while ost srhoed increased performance when serviced with a SAN. That's in comparison to locally attached drives (SATA or Firewire 800), and includes iSCSI based SANs.

 

I plan to write all this up sometime in the future, when life slows down a bit. Results are 9 months old at this point, but still valid I expect.

 

Paul

 

 

Good point. With the PC builds, know anyone who has tested fiber gigabit in order to eliminate this?

 

The other test is to wait for the buffer to load, pull the ethernet out of the machine, then hear if there is a difference.

[Audio_ELF]

RE power line network...

 

I would be interested if the powerline network degraded sound becaus word how the network works; or purely because it adds "noise" to the AC which is used as the transmission method. Not sure how you could test that - perhaps using an off the grid power source for the powerline.

 

(Hope that made sense)

 

Eloise

[Paul R]

That puzzles me too, and I do not have an answer. I tend to think it must be noise pollution in the AC lines, somehow!

-Paul

 

RE power line network...

 

I would be interested if the powerline network degraded sound becaus word how the network works; or purely because it adds "noise" to the AC which is used as the transmission method. Not sure how you could test that - perhaps using an off the grid power source for the powerline.

 

(Hope that made sense)

 

Eloise

[1audio]

Powerline networking runs in the 2-30 MHz range on the power line. The peak energy can be 2A in that range. its a ton of noise. The Monster network adapters have a filter to isolate connected loads from the noise that help but cannot be perfect.

 

The obvious test would be to plug in the PLN adapter and connect a laptop to it so its active but not connect it to the audio system.

 

Even the cheap adapters have plenty of bandwidth for audio, they have been designed to support Bluray video (50+ Mbps).

[cjf]

Please provide the link. All I can find are transformer based solutions.

 

This is the one I am using. They make a GB one as well but I didn't see a need to spend the extra money for it considering the small amount of data being transmitted.

 

Ethernet Data Isolator, 10BASE-T/100BASE-TX - SP426A - Shop now - Black Box

[1audio]

That's the same one I found. I think its magnetic. There is no power to run optoisolators. I think it's misleading for them to list it under optoisolators. 100 MB ethernet really is enough for any audio application.