Drugs

[Akapod]

@Jay192. Sorry to hear about your god-son, but I agree with Paul that lack of motivation and a DGAF attitude happens to most teen-agers. In addition, most teenagers I've known have an extremely sensitive BS detector, and see that society's "Don't Do Drugs" message doesn't really square with the number of beer advertisements on television. I'd like to respectfully suggest that the question isn't simply "Should I do drugs," but something more like "What drugs are acceptable to use, and with what conditions?"

 

And if the answer is "none," that's fine.

 

I've been lucky, and count no friends as casualties to drugs. But, without question, the two most dangerous drugs I've been around are booze and cigarettes, with duly-prescribed pharmaceuticals rising fast.

 

As for music, it's hard to beat red wine and a little weed. But whiskey comes in a respectable second.

 

Happy listening, all.

[Jay192]

Thanks for the advice and concern guys. My Godson and I (and one other adult he trusts) do have an agreed 'drugs policy' (which covers frequency / types of drugs). Complete abstinence wasn't a workable option. He's also ok with voluntarily testing to aid his self-control and for verification. Fingers crossed & thanks again.

 

Meanwhile, back to the topic ...since I don't smoke, barely drink, don't drink coffee or (Western) tea, and merely rely on the power of the amps and music, the most i typically find in my hand listening to music is a (wine) glass of sparkling water

[chg]

I think I am addicted to coffee. I never drank coffee until after age 35, so you would think I would have been mature enough to handle it. But if I try to skip a fix I mean a cup, I get a cracking headache.

 

Coffee is definitely addictive and many try to claim it isn't. Where I work, a friend and I like to give coffee drinkers a bit of a hard time about their daily fix. They all claim they're not addicted and say silly things like "I'm not addicted, I don't need it, and I can quit, I just like it". Then we offer up the "challenge"... go without coffee for a week. Some make it a day, or two, and we have fun watching the withdrawals and changes in demeanor, but all fail the test. We do the same (challenge) for soda drinkers, and see similar fail rates.

 

BTW: wgscott- In another thread there was discussion about the difficulties of communication (intent/meaning) on the net. So I looked back through some of my post and I noticed this one;

 

I said;

I thought you were staying away from cable debates (for mental health reasons)? Probably not a bad idea actually.

 

I can see how that last sentence might look like it was a swipe at you directly. It absolutely was not. My meaning was that it's probably not a bad idea for myself and others' in general (or good advice). Don't know how you saw it, but just wanted to make sure you didn't read it the wrong way.

[chg]

Amen!

 

Quitting cigarettes is the single most difficult thing I have ever done. Period!

 

I remember Ozzy saying that it was more difficult to quit smoking than any other drug (including heroin). I would guess that meth and cigarettes are the most addictive substances. They put so many more addictive chemicals in cigarettes these day, making it nearly impossible to quit.

[wgscott]

I either didn't see it or didn't process it that way. No worries...

[chg]

I either didn't see it or didn't process it that way. No worries...

 

Good.

 

I read this in another thread and it's so true.

 

this is the web, and written communication is so much more susceptible to misinterpretation, that one must try harder to maintain a respected place in the virtual community.

 

I know I've done it (unintentionally) a few times. There should be a thread, or guide on the subject.

 

Sorry, back to OT.

[wgscott]

ASCII-text-autism

[kana813]

Chris,

 

I don't understand how/why this thread/poll belongs on CA.

[wgscott]

Chris,

 

I don't understand how/why this thread/poll belongs on CA.

 

Hey! Who called the self-appointed internet police?

 

(It was meant as a light-hearted diversion from all the cable-argument-type threads.) If you don't like it, please feel free not to read it.

 

I need to go make another entry to my ignore list now. See ya.

[wgscott]

Having said that, if this poll/thread in any way detracts from the site, I completely understand if Chris prefers it be deleted.

[Daudio]

There is nothing at all wrong with this thread, it just needs to be in a CA 'off topic' sub-forum, which doesn't yet exist. I think that is why the confusion.

 

In fact this thread is fun and even serious, related to music listening, and therefore valuable. but it's off the core topics of the CA sub-forums. CA just needs to catch up to good forum information structure

[AudioDoctor]

The next fun thread should be a poll about which varieties of weed give the best listening experience...

 

[orgel]

The next fun thread should be a poll about which varieties of weed give the best listening experience...

 

 

Amsterdam would be the place to do the research. The coffee shops all have live or recorded music and a menu of weed choices. And munchies. And, um, coffee.

 

--David

[souptin]

Chris,

 

I don't understand how/why this thread/poll belongs on CA.

 

I couldnt agree more!

 

In fact, I wouldn't reecommend sex, drugs, or insanity for everyone...

 

 

 

 

 

 

But...

 

 

 

 

 

 

They've always worked for me! (drumroll)

[Akapod]

Dr. Thompson, so good of you to join us.

[joelha]

I'll second kana813's comment. If we could close this thread, we'd be the police. We're commenting. I don't think this topic is in great taste and it doesn't represent the quality I've come to expect and appreciate from CA.

 

Joel

[wgscott]

I'll second kana813's comment. If we could close this thread, we'd be the police. We're commenting. I don't think this topic is in great taste and it doesn't represent the quality I've come to expect and appreciate from CA.

 

Joel

 

If I or anyone posting here was advocating drug use, I guess I might be able to see the validity of your objection, but as it stands, I think you might be over-stating the case and perhaps posturing just a wee bit.

 

There are two sets of folks who I think do have legitimate concerns that have posted here. One set are those who require drugs for medicinal reasons, and the other are those with friends, relatives, etc, who are victims of addition. Either of these might object that the topic makes light of a serious problem, which was certainly not my intention.

 

One of the reasons I avoided the music scene growing up was its implicit association with recreational drug use. With the exception of Tower Classical in Berkeley, which I used to blow all my money at when I was in grad school, every record store I have set foot in, in the United States, doubled as a drug parafinelia head shop. The two cultures are inextricably linked. I was curious, in an idle moment, to know whether this was true of audiophiles as well. From this very informal sampling, I would guess it reflects our society as a whole.

[dallasjustice]

If I or anyone posting here was advocating drug use, I guess I might be able to see the validity of your objection, but as it stands, I think you might be over-stating the case and perhaps posturing just a wee bit.

 

There are two sets of folks who I think do have legitimate concerns that have posted here. One set are those who require drugs for medicinal reasons, and the other are those with friends, relatives, etc, who are victims of addition. Either of these might object that the topic makes light of a serious problem, which was certainly not my intention.

 

One of the reasons I avoided the music scene growing up was its implicit association with recreational drug use. With the exception of Tower Classical in Berkeley, which I used to blow all my money at when I was in grad school, every record store I have set foot in, in the United States, doubled as a drug parafinelia head shop. The two cultures are inextricably linked. I was curious, in an idle moment, to know whether this was true of audiophiles as well. From this very informal sampling, I would guess it reflects our society as a whole.

 

Bill,

 

It would be more endearing and disarming if you simply stated your views upfront before conducting these push polls. The last one you did you were pushing your global warming theories and finished it off some sort of Malthusian screed.

 

I am an advocate for freedom. I believe people should be able to do stupid things to their bodies as long as I don't have to pay for it.

 

Listening to music under the influence is like using too much BBQ sauce on really good BBQ. Now, I could understand a little BBQ sauce if it's not that good, but the music should stand on it's own, IMO.

[Jud]

There are two sets of folks who I think do have legitimate concerns that have posted here. One set are those who require drugs for medicinal reasons, and the other are those with friends, relatives, etc, who are victims of addition. Either of these might object that the topic makes light of a serious problem, which was certainly not my intention.

 

Agreed. Also agreed it's up to our host to decide ultimately what to do with this thread, but I personally see nothing at all wrong with it. I am interested in the idea of an "off topic" area for the forum, not only for threads like this, but also because people who enjoy each other's conversation here on audio matters might find other interests they have in common in an off topic area. I seem to recall Chris not necessarily wanting to do that when it was suggested in the past, however.

 

One of the reasons I avoided the music scene growing up was its implicit association with recreational drug use. With the exception of Tower Classical in Berkeley, which I used to blow all my money at when I was in grad school, every record store I have set foot in, in the United States, doubled as a drug parafinelia head shop. The two cultures are inextricably linked. I was curious, in an idle moment, to know whether this was true of audiophiles as well. From this very informal sampling, I would guess it reflects our society as a whole.

 

Well, the record stores in Berkeley must be different than those back East, because as the Eagles said, we haven't had that spirit here since 1969. (Well, maybe the early '70s. But I knew it was all over the day the Weathermen held a bake sale in our dorm to try to raise money to stay afloat.)

 

As for audiophile culture being similar - Ever seen a head shop in a high end audio store? Closest I can remember is a store up the street from me senior year in college that sold rock-'n'-roll posters, black lights, rolling papers, a few records, and a smattering of high end audio equipment, including Ohm F speakers. You might call it eclectic, or you might say the owner had no earthly idea what he was doing. Probably both.

 

Through people into various types of recreational drugs I have to say I did gain greater exposure to bands and music I likely would not have otherwise, including some pretty worthwhile artists I hadn't listened to a lot previously. As for the drugs themselves, probably the smartest thing I ever heard anyone say about them came from Bill Russell the basketball player. I didn't appreciate its wisdom when I first heard it as a college student. Someone had brought him to our campus on a speaking tour, and I thought I'd stop in and hear some interesting stuff about basketball, but he spoke about all sorts of other things. He talked about being a kid in grade school, outside at recess playing with the other kids, except one boy who was just off sitting by himself smiling all the time. Bill asked one of his schoolmates why this kid was always so happy, and was told the kid was smoking dope. Russell told us that he thought to himself, "There are things I want to do - I don't have time to always be sitting around smiling." To be so wise so young....

[crisnee]

Re addictions: coffee, cigarettes, amphetamine.

 

I've been addicted to coffee and quit it several times for various reasons. In my case it was only a physical addiction, and not a very intense one. 2 days of migraine like headaches and I was fine. I stayed off it for months at a time, and once for a year or so. Nevertheless, I like its affects when I drink about two cups a day, so I resumed it when I decided my concerns re drinking coffee were not valid.

 

Cigarettes: I tried to quit several times and after 2 or 3 days of trying I decided that my choices were thus: 1.) Immediate suicide. 2.) Losing several years off the end of my life. I chose option two. IOW very f**king difficult to quit.

 

For those interested I did eventually quit, by going the lettuce cigarette route until I tired of that vitamin riddled smoke at which time I went smoke free. Actually I think I had changed in some way emotionally and was ready to quit, lettuce just made it a bit easier.

 

Amphetamine: Have taken it regularly at times and never got near to getting addicted. I find this very interesting. I think substances may not in themselves be addicting to some people, at least in the psychological arena.

 

I remember at one point taking some drug, I forget what it was now, which made me feel as good, wonderful, just exquisitely engaged with all and life as anything I could ever imagine. Truly addictive, if that were all; however the come down was so awful I never took it again.

 

-Chris

[AudioDoctor]

re: record shops, here is an incomplete list of some of the detritus I need to walk through to get to the music at my local record shop, The Electric Fetus: http://www.electricfetus.com/CustomPage/1164 What any of that has to do with music, I am not quite sure. Once when I asked the owner how the name was picked, his answer was something to the effect of, well, it seemed like a good idea in the 60s... Take that for what its worth.

 

re: addictions, IMO all anyone has to do to cure them of any desire to do drugs is see what happens to one meth addict. I am not saying that marijuana is the same as meth, I am saying that the shock of it all should make any reasonable person decide not to do drugs. I have never gotten into recreational drug use, the only thing I am addicted to is Peets Coffee. I have never seen anything good come from drug use, even Marijuana.

 

All the above is IMO of course.

 

edit: I picked option 2 because occasionally I will have a beer or a glass of Whiskey/Scotch while listening. A bottle of either Scotch or Whiskey usually lasts me about a year. That should let you know how often I partake.

[Jay192]

Agreed. Also agreed it's up to our host to decide ultimately what to do with this thread, but I personally see nothing at all wrong with it ...

 

There are two sets of folks who I think do have legitimate concerns that have posted here. One set are those who require drugs for medicinal reasons, and the other are those with friends, relatives, etc, who are victims of addition. Either of these might object that the topic makes light of a serious problem, which was certainly not my intention.

 

I was one of the 'concerned folks' but have absolutely no issue with this thread. There was certainly no intent to belittle other serious issues associated with drugs and the topic / background of this thread was reasonably articulated. If anything my remarks are slightly OT as they don't deal with the topic of the r/ship between drugs and music.

 

Chris,

 

I don't understand how/why this thread/poll belongs on CA.

 

I also agree seeing the word "drugs" on CA did give me a brief WTF moment. However after that initial reflex I prefer the topic to be discussed in the context it has been rather than it to be swept under the carpet - even if it was raised more out of curiosity and some degree of tongue-in-cheek.

 

I think the pole results are revealing. I would have never guessed that around 1/4 of CA respondents would "sometimes partake of the evil weed whilst listening".

[wgscott]

Bill,

 

It would be more endearing and disarming if you simply stated your views upfront before conducting these push polls.

 

I had to look up WTF a push-poll is on Wikipedia. For anyone similarly in the dark, we have:

A push poll is an interactive marketing technique, most commonly employed during political campaigning, in which an individual or organization attempts to influence or alter the view of respondents under the guise of conducting a poll. In a push poll, large numbers of respondents are contacted, and little or no effort is made to collect and analyze response data. Instead, the push poll is a form of telemarketing-based propaganda and rumor mongering, masquerading as a poll. Push polls may rely on innuendo or knowledge gleaned from opposition research on an opponent. They are generally viewed as a form of negative campaigning.[1] The term is also sometimes used inaccurately to refer to legitimate polls which test political messages, some of which may be negative. Push polling has been condemned by the American Association of Political Consultants,[2] and the state legislature has attempted to restrict the practice in New Hampshire.[3][4]

 

I humbly submit this is a gross mischaracterization of my motives, which, by definition, you could not possibly know (apart from what i told you already, which happens to be accurate).

 

I could take this one step further, and ask whether you are suggesting I am indeed advocating recreational drug use. Maybe this is acceptable behavior for an aggressive prosecutor, but in normal discourse, it is indeed quite troubling, not to mention completely inaccurate.

 

The last one you did you were pushing your global warming theories and finished it off some sort of Malthusian screed.

 

This one is similarly inaccurate, to the point of being comical.

 

Not that you would be interested, but my primary motive for reducing electrical consumption is reducing my electricity bill.

 

I am an advocate for freedom. I believe people should be able to do stupid things to their bodies as long as I don't have to pay for it.

 

You do have to pay for it, if you pay taxes or medical insurance premiums, so this tells us very little.

 

Listening to music under the influence is like using too much BBQ sauce on really good BBQ. Now, I could understand a little BBQ sauce if it's not that good, but the music should stand on it's own, IMO.

 

I'd say it is more like using too much lighter fluid.

[wgscott]

I looked back on the other thread to try to figure out why you might be thinking I am trying to promulgate "my theories on global warming." The only thing I can see is that I took exception to your characterization of it as bad science. Being a scientist myself, I feel somewhat confident in my abilities to differentiate between good science and bad, and I would have had a similarly incredulous response if you had suggested HIV doesn't cause AIDS or that vaccines cause autism.

 

I will however confess one secret opinion that I hold: those susceptible to such suggestions are probably suffering from the same malady that makes them susceptible to extraordinary claims about audio cables, differences between files with identical checksums, and other such opinions.

 

Maybe I need to develop a push-poll to promulgate my rationalist/objectivist propaganda.

[souptin]

I knew you were a cable denier all along but I was willing to overlook it.

 

I admit it was hard to be so understanding when I realised you were also a commie renewable energy user, bent on depriving the noble utility companies from income.

 

But now, to have the gall to admit to being a push poll starter... Some sins are simply unforgivable. Have yourself slapped with a wet kipper and then, maybe, we'll talk about reparations, ok?