Schiit Gets Into The Surround Game

[The Computer Audiophile]

This is a pretty cool product, that only Schiit would ever build. I hope there are more surround items coming. 

 

https://www.schiit.com/products/syn

SURROUND SET FREE

 

Introducing Syn, the Surround DAC/Preamp and Headphone Amp

March 28, 2023, Corpus Christi, TX. Today, Schiit Audio announced its first venture into surround sound, Syn. Syn is a compact, universal, standards-free device that is at home in a media room, a stereo listening environment, or on a desktop. It provides surround output from any input source, as well as remote-controlled DAC and preamp functionality. A powerful discrete headphone amp with crossfeed-like processing and microphone input for gaming is also standard. Syn is available now for $399 at schiit.com

 

“Syn supports no surround standards,” said Jason Stoddard, Schiit Audio’s co-founder and head of analog development. “But by supporting no standards, it works with everything. Plug in optical from any smart TV, or give it a 1958 stereo recording from vinyl, and it works. Also, since we don’t support any standards, you don’t have to worry about Syn going obsolete when standards change.”

 

From any stereo optical digital input, USB digital input, or analog input, Syn uses analog processing to create all the channels needed for a typical surround setup: main left and right, surround left and right, center, and subwoofer. 

 

Proprietary controls allow Syn’s output to be optimized easily and quickly for most systems: Width helps solidify the center image for home theater use, or helps move the image out of your head when using headphones. Presence allows for a more seamless blend of center and mains, and helps tame forward vocal mixes. 

 

“Syn also allows you to leave the main channels untouched,” Jason added. “If you want, you can simply add channels, with no processing of the mains. This is especially useful if you want to use Syn for stereo listening, where you want maximum transparency, but would also like to decode the natural ambience.”

 

Syn also offers more than surround functionality. It is also a capable DAC with optical and USB inputs, a remote-controlled preamplifier with a discrete main gain stage, and a powerful discrete headphone amplifier. It even has an input for an electret microphone for gaming applications. 

Syn is what Schiit Audio calls “The Unifier,” because it brings everything together:

 

• Surround. For people looking for surround in their living room, media room, or home theater, Syn delivers universal matrix surround that is easy to use, works with everything, and won’t go obsolete.
• Gaming. For those looking to extend their gaming desktop to surround, do gaming on the big screen, want an exceptionally focused headphone experience, and the capability to use electret microphones, Syn delivers on all counts.
• Headphones. For customers wanting an all-in-one headphone amp and DAC that has special processing capabilities for headphones—that can go far, far beyond the desktop in the future—Syn provides both great digital and discrete analog performance.
• Music. For people looking for an inexpensive remote preamp/DAC—that can do a lot more —Syn is a really mind-expanding option.

 

Syn is the culmination of many years of experience with surround, starting with Mike Moffat’s former company, Angstrom, in the 1990s. Both Mike and Jason became disillusioned with the complexity and the upgrade cycle of traditional standards-based surround, and decided to produce Syn as an inexpensive and easy-to-use alternative. 

 

Syn is available now at schiit.com for $399.

 

About Schiit Audio

Founded in 2010 by Jason Stoddard and Mike Moffat, Schiit has grown into a leader in affordable high-end audio, with a wide range of products spanning DACs, headphone amplifiers, and preamplifiers, from $49 to $2799. 

 

 

 

[firedog]

Got to give it to them for innovation and creativity. And it's low cost. 

It will be interesting to hear the reports of how people think it sounds as a system fed 5.1 and as a system creating 5.1 from stereo.

Chris, can't they send you one for review?

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, firedog said:

Got to give it to them for innovation and creativity. And it's low cost. 

It will be interesting to hear the reports of how people think it sounds as a system fed 5.1 and as a system creating 5.1 from stereo.

Chris, can't they send you one for review?

 

I talked to Jason about it last week. It's a stereo input only, if I remember correctly. I too love the creativity and willingness to manufacturer products like this. 

 

It's a bit of a cabling mess to get one working in my system because Syn only supports RCA and my system is cabled for balanced XLR. Still thiinking about getting one in though.

[DuckToller]

I love the way of thinking at SCHIIT designing audio gear that may last a while with great functionaliy at reasonable prices.
Given these guys know their markets, Surround seems to be still a thing... 
Next on list a SCHIIT surround amplifier.
Then you've got the basics to eclipse into multichannel audio...
Question: If there is no standard, output on all port is unlimited 2v/rms, which means you could use is as well as a 6-channel DAC , for example for 3-way active speaker ?

[DuckToller]

1 hour ago, DuckToller said:

I love the way of thinking at SCHIIT designing audio gear that may last a while with great functionaliy at reasonable prices.
Given these guys know their markets, Surround seems to be still a thing... 
Next on list a SCHIIT surround amplifier.
Then you've got the basics to eclipse into multichannel audio...
Question: If there is no standard, output on all port is unlimited 2v/rms, which means you could use is as well as a 6-channel DAC , for example for 3-way active speaker ?

In anwer to my own question: (source: Schiit)

Main L/R
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.02db
THD: <0.0005%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 2V RMS
IMD: <0.0005%, CCIR
SNR: >118dB, A-weighted, referenced to 2V RMS
Crosstalk: >-80dB, 20Hz-20KHz
Topology: fully discrete voltage feedback, high current/high power output for headphone amp
Gain: 0dB
Output Impedance: 75 ohms

Center
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.02db
THD: <0.0005%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 2V RMS
IMD: <0.0005%, CCIR
SNR: >118dB, A-weighted, referenced to 2V RMS
Topology: based on OPA1656/OPA1678
Gain: 0dB in absence of processing, up to 12dB with processing
Output Impedance (line out): 75 ohms

Surround
Frequency Response: -3dB at 7kHz
THD: <0.0006%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 2V RMS
IMD: <0.0006%, CCIR
SNR: >114dB, A-weighted, referenced to 2V RMS
Topology: based on OPA1656/OPA1678
Gain: 0dB in absence of processing, up to 12dB with processing
Output Impedance (line out): 75 ohms

Subwoofer Out
Frequency Response: -3dB at 80 Hz
THD: <0.0008%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 2V RMS
IMD: <0.0008%, CCIR
SNR: >112dB referenced to 2V RMS
Topology: based on OPA1656/OPA1678
Gain: 10dB referenced to mains
Output Impedance (line out): 75 ohms

Looks like one could use the "Surround" output for the woofers/mids (and perhaps use additional subs(s)) and the mains for for mids/high range in an active 2-way system. 
I would guess that it wasn't designed for leaving the center unused, but with a creative digital x-over it might be usable, too. What would you think, @mitchco  ?
Just read yesterday about the search from @Ibanez looking for alternatives to the OKTO DAC 8Pro.
Worth a second thought?

[feelingears]

I have a feeling, probably incorrect but nonetheless, a feeling that headphones are NOT a gateway drug to two channel, speaker based home audio. I think they're two separate demographics, two separate markets. I mean, you really have to have a home to want to "invest" in "luxury" items like two channel audio gear. (And, the younger generation seems to value experiences over stuff, nevermind the fact that listening to music intentionally is an actual experience.)

 

Anyway, all that just to say that it will be the leader in the headphone space coming out with crossover products like this to lead the flock to the promised...homes. And, that would be the house that Stoddard & Moffat built. 

 

Cheers, guys (and gals).

[PeterG]

2 hours ago, feelingears said:

I have a feeling, probably incorrect but nonetheless, a feeling that headphones are NOT a gateway drug to two channel, speaker based home audio. I think they're two separate demographics, two separate markets. I mean, you really have to have a home to want to "invest" in "luxury" items like two channel audio gear. (And, the younger generation seems to value experiences over stuff, nevermind the fact that listening to music intentionally is an actual experience.)

 

Anyway, all that just to say that it will be the leader in the headphone space coming out with crossover products like this to lead the flock to the promised...homes. And, that would be the house that Stoddard & Moffat built. 

 

Cheers, guys (and gals).

 

Interesting hypothesis.  Not saying you're wrong, but for those of us of a certain age, just a few years ago, every dorm room (and apartment) had an "awesome" stereo

[DuckToller]

23 minutes ago, PeterG said:

 

Interesting hypothesis.  Not saying you're wrong, but for those of us of a certain age, just a few years ago, every dorm room (and apartment) had an "awesome" stereo

Just look at the fees plus living cost for academic education - particularly in the Anglo-American system.

Nowadays parents can't afford to buy you a fancy stereo anymore.

[firedog]

12 hours ago, DuckToller said:

Just look at the fees plus living cost for academic education - particularly in the Anglo-American system.

Nowadays parents can't afford to buy you a fancy stereo anymore.

 

12 hours ago, PeterG said:

 

Interesting hypothesis.  Not saying you're wrong, but for those of us of a certain age, just a few years ago, every dorm room (and apartment) had an "awesome" stereo

 

None of my contemporaries - even those from well off families had a stereo provided by the parents. Every family I knew considered the stereo an expense the offspring had to provide for themselves. The only exceptions I remember were families with decent setups that would give their now second hand equipment to a kid when they upgraded. 

 

Stand alone stereos are relatively expensive and take up space. Modern lifestyle is oriented toward appliance like devices and removing complexity, and reducing clutter. Not to mention getting rid of any kind of cables and using voice commands. People nowadays have listening to streaming mp3 over BT to a lifestyle speaker or earbuds as their default, and they consider it adequate.

Even in the relatively rare case that they want something better, they still tend to want something that doesn't take up much space and and is more or less wireless. There are some pretty good sounding active speakers with BT out there that don't cost an arm and a leg (say $200-$500 per speaker). Except for the types that come to sites like this, that's already considered an "audiophile upgrade". 

 

Headphone or earbud listening can lead to upgrades that are "audiophile" desktop systems for headphones or small desktop speakers. I don't think it's coincidental that Schiit is doing so well making lots of small, relatively inexpensive boxes aimed at the market for desktop and headphone based systems, for those that want a upgrade over the default using BT. 

 

I also don't see any necessary connection between wanting a better quality headphone based system and having a speaker based stereo; in some cases the desire for quality may lead to a speaker based setup, but I think in many cases it doesn't. 

[DuckToller]

5 hours ago, firedog said:

 

 

None of my contemporaries - even those from well off families had a stereo provided by the parents. Every family I knew considered the stereo an expense the offspring had to provide for themselves. The only exceptions I remember were families with decent setups that would give their now second hand equipment to a kid when they upgraded. 

 

Stand alone stereos are relatively expensive and take up space. Modern lifestyle is oriented toward appliance like devices and removing complexity, and reducing clutter. Not to mention getting rid of any kind of cables and using voice commands. People nowadays have listening to streaming mp3 over BT to a lifestyle speaker or earbuds as their default, and they consider it adequate.

Even in the relatively rare case that they want something better, they still tend to want something that doesn't take up much space and and is more or less wireless. There are some pretty good sounding active speakers with BT out there that don't cost an arm and a leg (say $200-$500 per speaker). Except for the types that come to sites like this, that's already considered an "audiophile upgrade". 

 

Headphone or earbud listening can lead to upgrades that are "audiophile" desktop systems for headphones or small desktop speakers. I don't think it's coincidental that Schiit is doing so well making lots of small, relatively inexpensive boxes aimed at the market for desktop and headphone based systems, for those that want a upgrade over the default using BT. 

 

I also don't see any necessary connection between wanting a better quality headphone based system and having a speaker based stereo; in some cases the desire for quality may lead to a speaker based setup, but I think in many cases it doesn't. 

For clarification:
The first sentece of my post is dead serious.
The second sentence travels on the irony tag - given that nowadays - on average - you'll start your professional working life endebted, if your parents aren't paying your bills. There are, of course, exceptions to that rule.
My experiences aren't too different from yours, haven't seen lot's great stereos in student location - neither in UK nor Germany.
 

[PeterG]

6 hours ago, firedog said:

 

 

None of my contemporaries - even those from well off families had a stereo provided by the parents. Every family I knew considered the stereo an expense the offspring had to provide for themselves. The only exceptions I remember were families with decent setups that would give their now second hand equipment to a kid when they upgraded. 

 

Stand alone stereos are relatively expensive and take up space. Modern lifestyle is oriented toward appliance like devices and removing complexity, and reducing clutter. Not to mention getting rid of any kind of cables and using voice commands. People nowadays have listening to streaming mp3 over BT to a lifestyle speaker or earbuds as their default, and they consider it adequate.

Even in the relatively rare case that they want something better, they still tend to want something that doesn't take up much space and and is more or less wireless. There are some pretty good sounding active speakers with BT out there that don't cost an arm and a leg (say $200-$500 per speaker). Except for the types that come to sites like this, that's already considered an "audiophile upgrade". 

 

Headphone or earbud listening can lead to upgrades that are "audiophile" desktop systems for headphones or small desktop speakers. I don't think it's coincidental that Schiit is doing so well making lots of small, relatively inexpensive boxes aimed at the market for desktop and headphone based systems, for those that want a upgrade over the default using BT. 

 

I also don't see any necessary connection between wanting a better quality headphone based system and having a speaker based stereo; in some cases the desire for quality may lead to a speaker based setup, but I think in many cases it doesn't. 

 

Yes!  I was allowed to use gift money from my Bar Mitzvah to buy the stereo that took me to my mid 20s, and my sons have scored my hand-me-downs to be combined with used gear.

 

I hate this utilitarian appliance approach, and I love what Schiit, Etymotic, NAD, Rotel and others are doing to keep audiophile gear within reach.

[bobfa]

Considering designing a system around the SYN—a "normal" family room setup.  We need five speakers and a subwoofer, and five channels of amplification.

 

Staying on-brand:

 

SYN "pre-pro." 1x $399

GJALLARHORN power amps 3x $299

Bowers and Wilkins MT-50 system at $2094 (order the individual speakers on Amazon)

Add $200 for cables. Buy interconnects from Schiit, as they are nice enough!

 

So all in, $3590 plus shipping and tax.

 

As a counterpoint:

 

A typical Sonos sound bar, sub, and rears: $899 for ARC, $799 for Sub, plus 2x $249 for ERA 100 surrounds comes out to $2196

 

 

So many ways of building something like this...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[firedog]

2 hours ago, bobfa said:

GJALLARHORN power amps 3x $299

3 amps, meaning 2 run in stereo and one in mono? Or what am I not understanding?

[DuckToller]

12 minutes ago, firedog said:

3 amps, meaning 2 run in stereo and one in mono? Or what am I not understanding?

5+1=6 ?

[bobfa]

 

The subwoofer is on its own.  You need an amp for  Front L+C+R and Rear L+R.  So one channel is a spare.

 

Or find a five-channel amp, say from Emotiva.

 

RJF

[R1200CL]

The Theta Casablanca had (and has) a very good stereo to surround conversion. I think called matrix mode or circle surround. 

You can find old reasonable priced versions around.
Then you can spend endless of money upgrading the Casablanca to latest technology available 😀

(30 year old interview). 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/mike-moffat-re-creating-musical-event
 

ATI makes nice 5 ch amps. 

 

So why not just purchase an old Yamaha or similar receiver, and you get amplifiers built in as well.
 

[R1200CL]

 

[HIRES_FAN]

Silly li'l thing from Schiit that doesn't even have a HDMI input in 2023!!! Get one of the pre-pros from Marantz, Yamaha, etc and call it a night.

[The Computer Audiophile]

13 minutes ago, HIRES_FAN said:

Silly li'l thing from Schiit that doesn't even have a HDMI input in 2023!!! Get one of the pre-pros from Marantz, Yamaha, etc and call it a night.

HDMI is the worst interface ever invented. More problematic than TosLink by far. Plus, this device from Schiit is $399 with 1/10th the circuitry of a pre-pro. 

[HIRES_FAN]

43 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

HDMI is the worst interface ever invented. More problematic than TosLink by far. Plus, this device from Schiit is $399 with 1/10th the circuitry of a pre-pro. 

 

Ok, if you are talking cost, I am sorry, but, here are 2 products from CREATIVE that are supported by Creative's robust software suite and kicks the Shiit out of the Shiit.

 

210 USD

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-ae-7

 

 

140 USD

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-gc7#buy-menu

 

I have both these soundcards from Creative (truly affordable!) and the Yamaha CX-A5200 prepro (expensive indeed, by comparison). But, I still have no freaking idea what Synful Shiit this Shiit's trying to accomplish.

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, HIRES_FAN said:

 

Ok, if you are talking cost, I am sorry, but, here are 2 products from CREATIVE that are supported by Creative's robust software suite and kicks the Shiit out of the Shiit.

 

210 USD

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-ae-7

 

 

140 USD

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-gc7#buy-menu

 

I have both these soundcards from Creative (truly affordable!) and the Yamaha CX-A5200 prepro (expensive indeed, by comparison). But, I still have no freaking idea what Synful Shiit this Shiit's trying to accomplish.

I was talking cost compared to your suggestion of products better than the Schiit. If you want to talk cost only, you can get something for $20 if you really want. Not for me though. 

[HIRES_FAN]

On 4/9/2023 at 2:59 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

I was talking cost compared to your suggestion of products better than the Schiit. If you want to talk cost only, you can get something for $20 if you really want. Not for me though. 

I stand corrected. The Syn sounds amazing and appears to offer amazing value for the buck.

[feelingears]

No longer timely nor relevant, but slightly relevant: I just heard Audeze headphones (TOTL models) for the first time and dang, they're almost like listening to speakers, but with the benefit of headphone details! Okay, first time in my life I've felt that way about headphones!

 

So I stand corrected too: maybe headphones could open one's mind (and wallet) to speaker systems. Also the reverse - I may have to get some Audeze cans...