Anyone end up with cheap class d?

[jparvio]

The latest class-D amps do not suffer from the impedance load-variant behavior as the early ones did. That said they are not all made equal. So before rushing into D based on the price as value meter, one should listen to the product.

  

[GUTB]

On 9/26/2022 at 11:18 PM, jparvio said:

The latest class-D amps do not suffer from the impedance load-variant behavior as the early ones did. That said they are not all made equal. So before rushing into D based on the price as value meter, one should listen to the product.

  

This is a great point.

 

I've recently decided that my audio experience is worth dipping into a my savings for. That's means my range of options have opened up greatly. In the past, a $20k amp would be out of the question, but now I can consider it. A $50k amp was put into Ferrari bin (teenager reading magazines, ie, fantasy land fun to think about but no relation to reality) but now if I found a really good price it's something that can I make happen. Basically, the upper limit used to be money, but now I'm aiming for the upper limit of sound quality. It would be unfair not to include class D representatives in that class since I know the tech has been tremendous leaps over just the last 5 or so years.

 

So...what about the high end of class D? Who makes these? There's that $15k(?) Technics using the GaNFET modules. Isn't there a Jeff Rowland unit? Do any of you guys have a class D amp in your head that you can't forget? 

[Mike Rubin]

38 minutes ago, GUTB said:

.what about the high end of class D? Who makes these? There's that $15k(?) Technics using the GaNFET modules.

This Technics? 

 

https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/amplification/integrated-amp/technics-su-r1000-digital-integrated-amplifier/

 

"Only" $9500.  Not quite Ferrari territory but not exactly a beater price, either! 

[Jud]

1 hour ago, GUTB said:

Do any of you guys have a class D amp in your head that you can't forget?

Your mileage may certainly vary, but my Purifi-based Apollon (least expensive in their Purifi line) beat the pants off my Spectral. The Spectral was a mid-90s model, but that’s part of the point of getting a brand new amp.

[PYP]

1 hour ago, GUTB said:

So...what about the high end of class D? Who makes these? There's that $15k(?) Technics using the GaNFET modules. Isn't there a Jeff Rowland unit? Do any of you guys have a class D amp in your head that you can't forget? 

Still love my Mola Mola Kalugas.  Bruno has made advances on the amplifier module, so ideally you would want to audition new stuff too in order to compare.    The load-invariant improvement is important, but this depends upon your speakers.

 

I've always been interested in the MBL amps.  This one looks to be in your ballpark:  https://www.mbl-audio.ru/mblproductsen/productshow/28/

 

 

[DuckToller]

 

[TimF]

Picked up some Hypex NC400's monoblocks with Hypex SMPS600 power supplies. Interesting findings. These cost in the region of £1500 to build. 

Tested through two systems....

1) My main system is Focal Scala Utopia III, expensive custom built music server, Lampizator Golden Gate 2 Dac with ARC Ref 6 pre. Currently this system has ARC V140 monoblocks in it for comparison. The ARC's are coloured, they have 8 KT90's per channel and they certainly wouldn't be described as neutral, they have some warmth through the top and midrange (not excessive) and bloat in the lower bass. They are not perfect. 

2) Also tested through my second system Scansonic MB5, marantz av8802a pre, Auralic Aries Femto streamer. Currently this system has a Bryston 9BSST in it for comparison. The 9BSST is a neutral amp, it doesn't shout at you, just plays what it's given. 

 

On the main system - compared to ARC V140

The good...

The amps sounded neutral, punchy with no excessive push of any frequencies. Lower bass (my speakers to go 25hz clean) was very articulate. Less bloat than the ARCs, initially this made them sound lean at very low end but was simply more accurate. Soundstage depth and width was there. Very impressive, especially for the money. Cyrus APA7.5 mono-blocks at around the same price were thinner sounding. 

The bad.... 

AC/DC Thunderstruck is my go to track for the drums. The realism of these is a really good test. So here was an initial problem. The bass drums lacked the textured slam of the ARCs. They simply sounded artificial. Same for vocals, gone was the singer in the room, replaced by a very well reproduced singer in the room. This was clearly a "reproduction", and matches many of the hifi's I've heard (some worse than others). I could not live with this.

 

On the main system - compared to Bryston (9BSST)

The good... 

Well it's all good. The midrange punch was much improved. Imaging was excellent. These were about the same brightness as the Bryston, they simply sounded better. Clarity was there and I was really impressed. No drawbacks at all. 

 

So those are my findings. Certainly this'll be linked to the taste I have, so not everyone will reach the same conclusions. My friend really enjoyed them on the main system and didn't complain at all, even when I pointed out what I didn't like. I just can't handle losing the "real" feeling of instruments and singers.  

 

For the money you cannot go wrong. These are excellent and if you like a neutral sound then I wouldn't hesitate in recommending them. 

 

Cheers, Tim

 

 

 

 

[PYP]

2 hours ago, TimF said:

Picked up some Hypex NC400's monoblocks with Hypex SMPS600 power supplies. Interesting findings. These cost in the region of £1500 to build. 

For the money you cannot go wrong. These are excellent and if you like a neutral sound then I wouldn't hesitate in recommending them. 

 

Cheers, Tim

If the bass is not exemplary, then either the design of that particular amp is suboptimal or underpowered for your beautiful speakers (there is a higher powered Hypex Ncore module).

 

But if I were in the market I would look at Bruno's latest design since the  EIGENTAKT is most likely a more universal match with all kinds of speaker loads.  As the posted interview with Bruno noted, the input board mostly governs the sound.   

 

In the U.S., something like the VTV AMPLIFIER Stereo Purifi Audio 1ET400A Amplifier is reasonably priced (not familiar with the brand, so just one possibility) and offers a choice of input options.  And the potential buyer can try it for 30 days.  

 

My own experience with NCore-based amps (DIY, then NAD, then Mola Mola) is that, unsurprisingly, implementation is everything and there is a vast difference among these particular choices.  When the implementation is very good, one hears the natural sweetness and warmth of the recording (if the recording captures that).  One might think there are tubes in the system.  

[TimF]

Yes interesting, the sound is very different from my valve monos (the ref 6 is a far more neutral sound and would be closer to solid state). I’m not saying they doesn’t do bass, what they don’t do is realism. I didn’t feel as if they were struggling power wise but I could be wrong. Would be interested to try their upper models for sure. 

[PYP]

40 minutes ago, TimF said:

Yes interesting, the sound is very different from my valve monos (the ref 6 is a far more neutral sound and would be closer to solid state). I’m not saying they doesn’t do bass, what they don’t do is realism. I didn’t feel as if they were struggling power wise but I could be wrong. Would be interested to try their upper models for sure. 

yes, you were clear about the lack of realism.  A good implementation of Bruno's design is very realistic across all frequencies.  Not only drums (from kick drum to cymbals), but upright bass, cello, baritone clarinet and the like sound full and realistic.   Class D can have all the tone, timbre and timing of the best of the other classes of amps.  Of course, it is a matter of one's preference.  

 

It is interesting to me that Atma-Sphere, a company known for valves, now offers a Class D amp:  http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/classD.html   In fact, the designer has posted that Class D is the present and the future of amplification.  That got my attention.  🧐 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ericuco]

3 hours ago, PYP said:

It is interesting to me that Atma-Sphere, a company known for valves, now offers a Class D amp

Rogue Audio is another traditional valve company that now offers Class D amp (Hypex) products. Their Dragon amp was a recent TAS amp of the year.

 

Speaking of Atma-Sphere, I was using one of their tube amps to drive a pair of Quad ESL speakers. Happened to talk to Roger Sanders (Sanders Sound Systems) at RMAF about my setup and he pointed out that the Atma-Sphere amp were a poor match for the Quads. Soon after, I switched to DIY Hypex Ncore amps and was floored by the difference, especially on the high-end.

[Bones13]

Just got the Atma-Sphere Class D monoblocks. Using a pair of Daedalus Audio Muse Studio Speakers (8 ohm, 95db)

 

I come from DIY Class A Nelson Pass amps 10-25 watt. I also have a 45 watt EL34 PP amp, and have listened to my dad's old MC60 amps a few times (one of them keeps shorting out). Most recently I have been using the M2 clone monoblocks. (M2x)

 

Wonderful in the early going. Clear, great bass, smooth midrange, non-sibilant treble. (I am 63, as long as the treble does not hiss at me...) Of course much stronger, at 100 watts, than any of my previous amps (I am using 20-25db less from the preamp). 14 pounds each!  And  balanced is perfect, as I have a long run from my pre to the amps.

 

Ralph was great to work with. I am head over heels on these amps.