How to improve my setup

[JH0894]

Dear all, 

 

I am new to this forum and a newbie audiophile who would like to improve his setup to enjoy his music some more. I am using rather old equipment and I am not sure if thats bad per se. Because it's old I find it difficult to figure out what is the weak link in my setup and whether it's worth buying a new amp/speakers or if I am better of investing in a DAC and keep the old gear as is. I was wondering what your thought are.

 

I mostly stream music from my Nvidia Shield Pro using Spotify connect. The Shield is connected to my Philips TV with HDMI. My TV is hooked up to my Sony STR-DB870 amplifier by a 3,5 mm jack (headphone port) to RCA cables. The speakers I use now are the JBL XTi20. Sometimes I listen to my vinyl records using an old Dual 1225 record player, which is connected directly to my amp.

 

Although both the amp and the speakers are old they still work properly. I am not sure how much the quality of speakers has improved the last decades. Might it be a better to put a DAC inbetweent the Nvidia shield and the amp? Wonder what you think.

 

Thanks in advance!

[DuckToller]

Salut JH, welcome to Audiophile Style !

Your Sony AV/STereo Amp seems to have a DAC integrated as it has some digital inputs available.
The most simple thing would be to use a toslink cable from your Shield into the Amp directly, in case the Shield would have digital audio outputs other than HDMI.

You might have assumed it already, I would assign the weakest link title to the digital / analog conversion scheme through your TV ...

If you have a digital music signal, you may want to have it - most certainly - untouched in the digital domain until it arrives at your amplifier which can do the conversion / or at an external DAC (usually USB/SPDif/Toslink input - RCA output) which could do the conversion and give a stero signal (2vRms) to your amplifier.

As an cost prohibitive alternative for a starter, you could as well look at the WIIM Mini streamer (around 100 $) which allows you receive the digital signal per WiFi close to your Amp where it connects via Toslink. The WiiM could be used with the Spotify connect app, and may be the option if - at a given time - Spotify will introduce lossless audio streaming, as the WiiM transports the signal lossless/bitperfect up to 24bit/192kHz over Toslink, depending  on the quality of your incoming signal from your streaming provider.  And the input quality allowed/defined by the DAC of your amp or the DaC you want to use.

 

Caution: Does only work with a paid Spotify subscription.

 

You could chose between analog output using the built in DAC, or the digital output using the intergrated DAC of your Sony.

You may connect your Shield (if you have media connected to it) via UPnP / DLNA  with the WiiM when necessary, if the Nvidia device supports these protocols.

All the best for a headstart into your journey, Tom

[DuckToller]

Explainer: this is IMHO the most cost prohibitive solution for Hi-Res audio through streaming services! It allows integrating these services / network streaming in your existing system.

If money is no object, you'll find a multitude of other options.

[davide256]

4 hours ago, JH0894 said:

Dear all, 

 

I am new to this forum and a newbie audiophile who would like to improve his setup to enjoy his music some more. I am using rather old equipment and I am not sure if thats bad per se. Because it's old I find it difficult to figure out what is the weak link in my setup and whether it's worth buying a new amp/speakers or if I am better of investing in a DAC and keep the old gear as is. I was wondering what your thought are.

 

I mostly stream music from my Nvidia Shield Pro using Spotify connect. The Shield is connected to my Philips TV with HDMI. My TV is hooked up to my Sony STR-DB870 amplifier by a 3,5 mm jack (headphone port) to RCA cables. The speakers I use now are the JBL XTi20. Sometimes I listen to my vinyl records using an old Dual 1225 record player, which is connected directly to my amp.

 

Although both the amp and the speakers are old they still work properly. I am not sure how much the quality of speakers has improved the last decades. Might it be a better to put a DAC inbetweent the Nvidia shield and the amp? Wonder what you think.

 

Thanks in advance!

agree with @DuckToller In your shoes, I'd invest in a newer DAC than the one built into the Sony... older basic DAC's are harsher and less resolving than newer DAC's.

Didn't see an audio digital output in pictures of the NVidia Shield but as long as the TV has an optical or coax output this should be possible. I do this for PS4 and blu ray player,use HDMI jacks into TV, optical to DAC for main stereo. Makes things much clearer and no worries about connecting multiple devices to 1 DAC

 

 

[JH0894]

Thanks so much for the fast reply! Great to see this forum is so active.

 

I was hoping a DAC would be a good addition as it is easy to implement in the setup. Personally, I was looking at the Topping D10s, Schiit Modi 2, RPi with a small DAC or a Ifi zen DAC, but I will definitely look at the WIIM mini streamer as well. Hadn't seen that one yet.

 

Just out of curiousity, if I would like to replace my speakers, how much do you think I would have to spend to improve it? Would a speaker pair of around 500 euro's give an improvement on what I have now for instance? Curious what you think! 

[DuckToller]

6 hours ago, JH0894 said:

Just out of curiousity, if I would like to replace my speakers, how much do you think I would have to spend to improve it? Would a speaker pair of around 500 euro's give an improvement on what I have now for instance? Curious what you think! 

Yes, maybe No ...

It is useful to surround your question with variables that give indication about the listening space and position, the habit of listening, the type of music you're listening to, do you want to integrate them in a 5.1 system and speaker sound you know and like.

Do you want to listen to them before you buy, would you like to order them in the net, would you buy used gear?

That may help you to receive some qualified answer tailored on your demand.

 

Into the blind space:

I have tested the Wharfedale Linton Heritage in 2019, and think they are a very good catch, if you can find them used for 5-600 Euros a pair. 

As exposition model these are at 450 euros per speaker.

Here: LintonHeritage

 

Some other speaker that come to mind are the Jamo S809, which are now on sale in France for 498 per pair. Even better and well tested are the Jamo C97 II (the newer model, this is important!) - but about double the budget - which for me would go head2head with the Lintons.

Usual suspects: Elac DBR62 @ 600 Euros.

Best, Tom

 

 

 

[DuckToller]

2 hours ago, JH0894 said:

I was looking at the Topping D10s, Schiit Modi 2, RPi with a small DAC or a Ifi zen DAC, but I will definitely look at the WIIM mini streamer as well.

I used the WiiM with the Soncoz LA-QXD (with very good results), bc I use the balanced outputs, but I may consider the Schiit Dacs with single ended outputs between 2-300€ as quite a good choice if you don't care about DSD. The WiiM transmits up to 24/192 pcm over toslink. Using the internal DAC is only optional for most audiophile aficionados.

[Rexp]

On 5/8/2022 at 4:06 AM, JH0894 said:

Dear all, 

 

I am new to this forum and a newbie audiophile who would like to improve his setup to enjoy his music some more. I am using rather old equipment and I am not sure if thats bad per se. Because it's old I find it difficult to figure out what is the weak link in my setup and whether it's worth buying a new amp/speakers or if I am better of investing in a DAC and keep the old gear as is. I was wondering what your thought are.

 

I mostly stream music from my Nvidia Shield Pro using Spotify connect. The Shield is connected to my Philips TV with HDMI. My TV is hooked up to my Sony STR-DB870 amplifier by a 3,5 mm jack (headphone port) to RCA cables. The speakers I use now are the JBL XTi20. Sometimes I listen to my vinyl records using an old Dual 1225 record player, which is connected directly to my amp.

 

Although both the amp and the speakers are old they still work properly. I am not sure how much the quality of speakers has improved the last decades. Might it be a better to put a DAC inbetweent the Nvidia shield and the amp? Wonder what you think.

 

Thanks in advance!

Switch to Tidal or Amazon HD, that will be a big upgrade. Then add a DAC that displays the resolution of the music being played, like Audioquest Cobalt, so that you know you have your Shield set up to play hi-res music.

[AudioDoctor]

29 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Switch to Tidal or Amazon HD

 

Qobuz

[Rexp]

16 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Qobuz

Yes, although I think they would have to install a third party Android app like UAPP.

[AudioDoctor]

4 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Yes, although I think they would have to install a third party Android app like UAPP.

 

Maybe. There may be a cost effective way to stream from a Raspberry Pi4 as well if something like a NUC and a DAC is too far out of the question. 

 

Edit: I know absolutely nothing about the Nvidia shield.

[AudioDoctor]

13 hours ago, JH0894 said:

Thanks so much for the fast reply! Great to see this forum is so active.

 

I was hoping a DAC would be a good addition as it is easy to implement in the setup. Personally, I was looking at the Topping D10s, Schiit Modi 2, RPi with a small DAC or a Ifi zen DAC, but I will definitely look at the WIIM mini streamer as well. Hadn't seen that one yet.

 

Just out of curiousity, if I would like to replace my speakers, how much do you think I would have to spend to improve it? Would a speaker pair of around 500 euro's give an improvement on what I have now for instance? Curious what you think! 

 

If I were you, I would consider that the Schiit Modi Multibit is worth every single penny, and more, of its price increase over the $99 version.

[AudioDoctor]

35 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

If I were you, I would consider that the Schiit Modi Multibit is worth every single penny, and more, of its price increase over the $99 version.

 

Actually, never mind. I see they stopped making it. Perhaps it was replaced with the Modius.

[zerung]

14 hours ago, JH0894 said:

Thanks so much for the fast reply! Great to see this forum is so active.

 

I was hoping a DAC would be a good addition as it is easy to implement in the setup. Personally, I was looking at the Topping D10s, Schiit Modi 2, RPi with a small DAC or a Ifi zen DAC, but I will definitely look at the WIIM mini streamer as well. Hadn't seen that one yet.

 

Just out of curiousity, if I would like to replace my speakers, how much do you think I would have to spend to improve it? Would a speaker pair of around 500 euro's give an improvement on what I have now for instance? Curious what you think! 

I have no idea how good the bottom are, but you did say Topping and Darko considers the D30 to be quite suitable..

 

 

https://darko.audio/2022/05/a-short-film-about-another-kick-ass-e1000-hi-fi-system/

 

[audiobomber]

I compared a Schiit Modi 3 and Topping D50S in my desktop system. I much preferred the sound of the Modi, returned the D50S. I now use a Modius in that system, which beats both. 

[DuckToller]

11 hours ago, Rexp said:

Yes, although I think they would have to install a third party Android app like UAPP.

or BubbleUPnP on Android, imho depends on which is his control device for the audio stream

[DuckToller]

On 5/8/2022 at 7:36 PM, DuckToller said:

Yes, maybe No ...

It is useful to surround your question with variables that give indication about the listening space and position, the habit of listening, the type of music you're listening to, do you want to integrate them in a 5.1 system and speaker sound you know and like.

Do you want to listen to them before you buy, would you like to order them in the net, would you buy used gear?

That may help you to receive some qualified answer tailored on your demand.

 

Into the blind space:

I have tested the Wharfedale Linton Heritage in 2019, and think they are a very good catch, if you can find them used for 5-600 Euros a pair. 

As exposition model these are at 450 euros per speaker.

Here: LintonHeritage

 

Some other speaker that come to mind are the Jamo S809, which are now on sale in France for 498 per pair. Even better and well tested are the Jamo C97 II (the newer model, this is important!) - but about double the budget - which for me would go head2head with the Lintons.

Usual suspects: Elac DBR62 @ 600 Euros.

Best, Tom

 

 

 

@JH0894

I came across a speaker database site today, filled with the usual suspects (massmarket brands, nothing specific-exotic-audiophile),
which may give you some ideas about what you want to look for.
Good thing is, all of them speakers noted above are available for comparison. As is the Polk, that was recently measured at another forum:
https://speakerdecision.com/review/Polk-Audio-Signature-Elite-ES20

https://speakerdecision.com/compare/Jamo-Studio-S-809-vs-Wharfedale-LINTON-Heritage

https://speakerdecision.com/compare/Polk-Audio-Signature-Elite-ES20-vs-ELAC-Debut-Reference-DBR62

https://speakerdecision.com/type/Passive-loudspeakers

[botrytis]

1 hour ago, DuckToller said:

@JH0894

I came across a speaker database site today, filled with the usual suspects (massmarket brands, nothing specific-exotic-audiophile),
which may give you some ideas about what you want to look for.
Good thing is, all of them speakers noted above are available for comparison. As is the Polk, that was recently measured at another forum:
https://speakerdecision.com/review/Polk-Audio-Signature-Elite-ES20

https://speakerdecision.com/compare/Jamo-Studio-S-809-vs-Wharfedale-LINTON-Heritage

https://speakerdecision.com/compare/Polk-Audio-Signature-Elite-ES20-vs-ELAC-Debut-Reference-DBR62

https://speakerdecision.com/type/Passive-loudspeakers

 

Well just saying they have errors on those review pages - 40 Hz is lower than 37 Hz?

[DuckToller]

1 minute ago, botrytis said:

 

Well just saying they have errors on those review pages - 40 Hz is lower than 37 Hz?

Control freak 😉😉😉

[bobbmd]

As others have said above the lowest end cost wise Schiit DACs are one way to start —what is your budget? I use the digital out from my 35” non smart LG TV to a Schiit YggyGS it decodes cable/streaming TV and music( in my case TIDAL).

I have very old Yamaha 750c dvd-a/a scad/cd changer that out via RCAs to Schiit Rggy2 just the amp but you could get it configured with a phono input and this setup has built in DAC.

The old adage is spend most on speakers again what is your budget?-i use a pair of Legacy Audio Studio HDs hand made and hand paired in Springfield ILL almost sound like a surround system to me.

hope this helps and is not more confusing for you.

[botrytis]

1 hour ago, DuckToller said:

Control freak 😉😉😉

 Jes saying. If I was a control freak, I would be telling people what to do.  I can't tell myself what to do w/o asking my wife first.

[PeterG]

Love to hear you've got a Dual 1225--my first turntable!

 

I bought the Rotel integrated amp in zerung's video post a few months ago for my musician son, and he paired it with my old B&W CM-1 speakers.  Excellent sound quality for the $.

 

I would try to scrap together $1,000 for speakers, or go used.  In any event--listen before you buy, or buy from a place that will accept returns without hassle

 

Good luck!

[JH0894]

Thanks all so much for all the feedback! My budget for a DAC is around a 100 euro's. I think the Schiit DACs are not very well accessible for me here in the Netherlands, making it a little more expensive then that, so I just ordered a Topping D10s from Amazon to see if I can hear a difference. Very curious about how much it will change the sound quality. 
 

On 5/8/2022 at 7:36 PM, DuckToller said:

It is useful to surround your question with variables that give indication about the listening space and position, the habit of listening, the type of music you're listening to, do you want to integrate them in a 5.1 system and speaker sound you know and like.

Do you want to listen to them before you buy, would you like to order them in the net, would you buy used gear?

That may help you to receive some qualified answer tailored on your demand.

So my room is about 5x5 meters and I listen on my couch which is 3 meters away from the speakers. Not a particullarly large room so I think bookself speakers will do the job just fine. I usually buy 2nd hand stuff for almost everything, but now, for just trying out it might be better to buy new stuff to I can return it if I don't like it. The type of music I listen is quite broad, but mostly singersongwriter, pop/rock, jazz and sometimes some classical music. As I would like to use them mainly for music, I think stereo speakers would be the best from what I have heard. 

 

On 5/8/2022 at 7:36 PM, DuckToller said:

I have tested the Wharfedale Linton Heritage in 2019, and think they are a very good catch, if you can find them used for 5-600 Euros a pair. 

Thanks for all the suggestions. I qiuckly looked around, but getting them for 5-600 euros is a really good catch! I only see them available for 800 euros or more :P.

 

On 5/9/2022 at 6:03 AM, Rexp said:

Switch to Tidal or Amazon HD, that will be a big upgrade. Then add a DAC that displays the resolution of the music being played, like Audioquest Cobalt, so that you know you have your Shield set up to play hi-res music.

I heard that starting audiophiles should not worry too much about FLAC audio at first. Is that correct?

 

And very good suggestion on the display. The Topping DAC I ordered does display the sample rate. Very curious whether the Shield will work properly. I read online that it should as long as the Shield recognizes the DAC via USB. 

 

4 hours ago, DuckToller said:

I came across a speaker database site today, filled with the usual suspects (massmarket brands, nothing specific-exotic-audiophile),
which may give you some ideas about what you want to look for.

Thanks! I will look around there as well.

 

[JH0894]

6 minutes ago, PeterG said:

Love to hear you've got a Dual 1225--my first turntable!

Haha, yeah I really love the thing. Its magical to have everything regulated mechanically :P. Still works great :)

[Rexp]

6 hours ago, JH0894 said:

 

I heard that starting audiophiles should not worry too much about FLAC audio at first. Is that correct?

 

No it isn't correct, GIGO applies, garbage in garbage out. So the order of importance is:

Source material

Source

Amp

Speakers

 

 

 

[Rexp]

9 hours ago, bobbmd said:

As others have said above the lowest end cost wise Schiit DACs are one way to start —what is your budget? I use the digital out from my 35” non smart LG TV to a Schiit YggyGS it decodes cable/streaming TV and music( in my case TIDAL).

I have very old Yamaha 750c dvd-a/a scad/cd changer that out via RCAs to Schiit Rggy2 just the amp but you could get it configured with a phono input and this setup has built in DAC.

The old adage is spend most on speakers again what is your budget?-i use a pair of Legacy Audio Studio HDs hand made and hand paired in Springfield ILL almost sound like a surround system to me.

hope this helps and is not more confusing for you.

If your tv is non smart, how do you access Tidal?