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While I see some occasional posts, I do not see a 'home' on AudiophileStyle for discussion around car audio. I'd vote for that to change, but fair enough.

 

Do any of you have experience with the other online forums? 

 

caraudiojunkies.com 

caraudio.com

diymobileaudio.com

stevemeadedesigns.com

the12volt.com

Roon > dCS Bartok > Parasound JC 2BP > Parasound JC 5 > Wilson Yvette


Technics SL-1200G & Bluesound Node > Luxman L-590axII > OJAS Bookshelf w/ Tweeter Horn Mod

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"the loudest sound in a Rolls Royce at 60 MPH is the clock"

Newspaper ad for Rolls Royce apx 1965.

 

Unless you have the aforementioned vehicle, I would guess that investing money in car audio is NOT an audiophile exercise.

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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7 minutes ago, NOMBEDES said:

 

Unless you have the aforementioned vehicle, I would guess that investing money in car audio is NOT an audiophile exercise.


 

OK. I will take the bait.
 

This line of argument seems to imply that a self-proclaimed audiophile is wasting time and money by trying to improve SQ in any situation where it cannot be optimized to the Nth degree. Many of us spend more time in our cars than in our designated listening rooms. While there are serious limitations inherent to the in-car listening environment, it is not worth debating whether in-car audio can be dramatically improved. It can be, and easily. Why should an audiophile not seek to do this? Should an audiophile not seek to improve SQ through headphones in an airplane? While jogging? In a tree? With a fox? I say “yes” to all of these. I am a huge proponent of tweaks and adjustments that can optimize performance of a distributed, whole-house audio system for background music (horror!). 
 

Maybe your suggestion is that these topics should not be discussed HERE because they are not truly audiophile. I can accept and respect that. But it does leave a pretty big gap in where an audiophile can go online to discuss these other listening applications with people who truly understand and appreciate good SQ. 

Roon > dCS Bartok > Parasound JC 2BP > Parasound JC 5 > Wilson Yvette


Technics SL-1200G & Bluesound Node > Luxman L-590axII > OJAS Bookshelf w/ Tweeter Horn Mod

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@Temporal_DissidentRoad noise, tire noise, environmental noise.  We spend thousands on room treatments to enhance our listening.  Why would be spend big bucks on high end equipment for a car?  You can certainly upgrade your car stereo, I encourage you to do so, but "audiophile" I think not.    @R1200CL:  No, not perfect, sorry.

 

Now if the car is not moving and ensconced in a weatherproofed garage you may be on to something.

 

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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39 minutes ago, NOMBEDES said:

Why would be spend big bucks on high end equipment for a car?  You can certainly upgrade your car stereo, I encourage you to do so, but "audiophile" I think not.  

 

Why would you spend big bucks? Well, first off, because you want better sound. Second, I'd say that "big bucks" is relative. You could do an entire "high end" car system for less than a single home audio HiFi component ($2-3k).

 

As for whether it is "audiophile,"...to be fair, I never referred to any car audio system as "audiophile." I did refer to people as audiophiles, and these people listen to systems in their vehicles like the rest of the world. Unlike "civilians," audiophiles have more appreciation for ANY improvement in SQ, whether it rises to the level of "audiophile" sound or not. So, I stand by my position that the subject of car audio would be of interest to many audiophiles. 

 

BTW, I like the story about the RR ad.

Roon > dCS Bartok > Parasound JC 2BP > Parasound JC 5 > Wilson Yvette


Technics SL-1200G & Bluesound Node > Luxman L-590axII > OJAS Bookshelf w/ Tweeter Horn Mod

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The amusing memory of such is going on a special deal trip through Europe in the early 90's - part of it was a rental car from France, which was Citroen's base model, 900cc engine. Brand new from the factory, 15km on the odometer - no pick up; you really had to work the gears - but it had a great radio! Clear, excellent treble - we had it wound up to high volume a lot of time; getting a sense of what Europeans airwaves had to offer - which was, mainly Anglo pop ... 🤣.

 

Then we stayed a bit with German relatives; he had a S class Merc, which made mincemeat of the autobahns, of course - Bev was beside herself, with the speed we were going at, 😉. But, the radio in it was awful! Stodgy, sludgy sound - thick army blanket treatment ... no thank you!

Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Sometimes measurable things aren't measured ... in the universe, ego is a mighty power ... 

 

Over and out.

 

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I have an older Mercedes. It has the NOA Weather channel, might be short wave, I don't know.  Still works.  The CD is, however, 

ausgeficked.

 

 

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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1 hour ago, Temporal_Dissident said:

 

Why would you spend big bucks? Well, first off, because you want better sound. Second, I'd say that "big bucks" is relative. You could do an entire "high end" car system for less than a single home audio HiFi component ($2-3k).

 

 

"Better is the enemy of good enough

 

Food for thought:  I just ordered a new car.  The Burmester sound system was a $5K+ option.  The sales person told me that there is little or no value to the high end system when you trade the car in. Hum......

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I'd love to discuss more car audio here.

 


with that endorsement, I’ll dive into my current dilemma. Maybe @NOMBEDES can give me some Mercedes advice. 
 

COVID and growing kids has reshuffled our driveway a bit. We just sold a minivan that we drove into the ground. I am in the market for a new “daily driver” and am focusing on used Mercedes wagons: comfortable haulers with powerful V8 engines. I may even go after an AMG E63 with over 400hp! (Insert joke here about how if you can’t afford a new german car you definitely can’t afford a used one ;-)

 

Anyway, I want to put in the best possible system. Likely a Kenwood Excelon Reference head unit, AudioControl DSP amps, and Morel 3-way component speakers. Using DSP in amps as active crossovers. I’ll do a nice sub as well. From what I’ve seen online, the car guys are getting fairly sophisticated with REW software and DSP settings. 
 

That head unit will play FLAC files via usb drive. I think the weakest link in this system will likely be the head unit DAC. 

My first challenge is finding a car for my new stereo system. Later model year cars are very difficult to integrate with, so I am focusing on 2008 and older. Trying to find more detail about aftermarket installs on Mercedes. Crutchfield has great resources for judging compatibility, but their research is a black hole after 2008.  

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

 

Roon > dCS Bartok > Parasound JC 2BP > Parasound JC 5 > Wilson Yvette


Technics SL-1200G & Bluesound Node > Luxman L-590axII > OJAS Bookshelf w/ Tweeter Horn Mod

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7 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

Get a Jeep Wagoneer and it comes with a McIntosh car audio system, blue meters and all.

 

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/brand/news/McIntosh-Audio-System-for-2021-Jeep-Grand-Cherokee-L

 

Wow! I'd heard about that, but not yet seen photos. Those meters are IN YOUR FACE! No everyone in the car can get really focused on monitoring the system for clipping. Finally! 🙄  But I actually do look forward to hearing that sometime. 

 

This raises another question that I struggle with: How do these new, very high-end branded OEM systems compare with aftermarket? Harman, Burmester, B&O, etc, etc. Here is an interesting piece in the Times from last fall...

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/business/car-stereos.html?smid=url-share

 

It provides some interesting history about how it all started with Bose (of course). 

 

I know better than to knock these high-end systems before I hear them, BUT I have heard a few. We are about to sell a 2018 Audi SQ5 with a 19-speaker, 755-watt Bang & Olufsen stereo. My impression after driving (listening) to this thing for years is that it is not for me. There is a TON of processing going. That system has separate adjustments for "Surround" and "3D" and, of course, automatic volume compensation at speed. 

 

These factory systems are, by default, tuned for "whole car" listening position. You can switch to "front" focused sound, but those are still splitting the baby between the two front seats. Most installer sites instruct you to aim tweeters and mids at the rear-view mirror to create a balanced sound for driver and passenger. 👎

 

The alternative, which I want to explore, is a system with high quality, component speakers (Morel) setup in good ol' stereo. Left and Right. (Will either have no rear speakers or an option to disable them.) Paired with a powerful, quality amp and precise DSP tuning (likely AudioContol) where each driver gets a dedicated, tunable amp channel (ie - active crossover). A powerful rear sub....all of it tuned for the flattest response and singular listening position (driver's seat). Mids and tweeters aimed directly at the driver's ear position (again, time-aligned with DSP). I will mount those drivers in adjustable pods from https://www.pods-tweeters-midrange.com/ on the dash.

 

Paired with a nice, clean source my expectation is that this is going to blow the doors off of these high-end, OEM systems that try to envelop you in surround processing and "19 speakers" 🤮

 

But I still want to hear the Jeep McIntosh system!!!

 

 

Roon > dCS Bartok > Parasound JC 2BP > Parasound JC 5 > Wilson Yvette


Technics SL-1200G & Bluesound Node > Luxman L-590axII > OJAS Bookshelf w/ Tweeter Horn Mod

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10 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

Get a Jeep Wagoneer and it comes with a McIntosh car audio system, blue meters and all.

 

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/brand/news/McIntosh-Audio-System-for-2021-Jeep-Grand-Cherokee-L


 

this piece talks about their MX950 system, but Jeep unveiled yesterday that they are also offering an MX1375 “Referance” system....

 

https://www.whathifi.com/us/news/mcintoshs-reference-car-audio-system-revealed-in-2022-jeep-grand-wagoneer

 

Roon > dCS Bartok > Parasound JC 2BP > Parasound JC 5 > Wilson Yvette


Technics SL-1200G & Bluesound Node > Luxman L-590axII > OJAS Bookshelf w/ Tweeter Horn Mod

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

One of the weakest links in the car audio signal chain would be the DACs used in car audio head units.

 

it would be easy enough to run a mobile DAC into an RCA input on a mobile head unit. But then you lose ability to control / navigate music vi head unit screen. You would be forced to use a second device as your interface.

 

@The Computer AudiophileMentioned trying to get Roon your car. Have you given this any more thought?

 

 

Roon > dCS Bartok > Parasound JC 2BP > Parasound JC 5 > Wilson Yvette


Technics SL-1200G & Bluesound Node > Luxman L-590axII > OJAS Bookshelf w/ Tweeter Horn Mod

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On 3/20/2021 at 10:39 PM, R1200CL said:

 

Dolby Atmos in your car. 

 

Cool, I guess? 
 

The car audio designers seem intent on multi-channel (maxi-channel?) “immersive” sound. But I am suspicious of the intense processing applied to 2-channel music files when played on these systems. 
 

I wish they would take a more purest approach to optimizing “stereo” (or 2.1, 2.2, etc).

 

 

Roon > dCS Bartok > Parasound JC 2BP > Parasound JC 5 > Wilson Yvette


Technics SL-1200G & Bluesound Node > Luxman L-590axII > OJAS Bookshelf w/ Tweeter Horn Mod

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22 minutes ago, Temporal_Dissident said:

One of the weakest links in the car audio signal chain would be the DACs used in car audio head units.

 

it would be easy enough to run a mobile DAC into an RCA input on a mobile head unit. But then you lose ability to control / navigate music vi head unit screen. You would be forced to use a second device as your interface.

 

@The Computer AudiophileMentioned trying to get Roon your car. Have you given this any more thought?

 

 

 

 

One thing I've though of is using a head unit like this video to control Roon, and have all audio separate form the head unit. The HU is just control. This way you have full control but avoid the added D to A to D to A conversion and less than great internal DAC. 

 

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems

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3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

a head unit like this video to control Roon, and have all audio separate form the head unit.

 

So a device like this controls Roon, which runs on a nuc installed in the car, feeding a separate DAC with RCA to amps? 

Roon > dCS Bartok > Parasound JC 2BP > Parasound JC 5 > Wilson Yvette


Technics SL-1200G & Bluesound Node > Luxman L-590axII > OJAS Bookshelf w/ Tweeter Horn Mod

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