Best Server Currently to replace the Zenith SE

[vortecjr]

On 5/21/2020 at 6:47 PM, Yorkshireman said:

I'm looking to replace my Innuos Zenith SE and was hoping to get some advice from the good people of Audiophile Style on whether I should go for the Innuos Statement or if there is currently a better alternative at a similar price point.

 

I am not techy enough to build my own custom made server so will have to rely on an off the shelf ready to go option.

 

All feedback, advice and opinions are welcomed.

Maybe describe the rest of the system...DAC, per-amp, amp, etc.

[Yorkshireman]

1 hour ago, vortecjr said:

Maybe describe the rest of the system...DAC, per-amp, amp, etc.

I currently have two systems on the go on the digital side of things both using the Zenith SE as a source component.

 

System1. 

Zenith SE > Allnic D5000 dac using Tellurium Q Black USB > Naim Nac 52 Pre amp using Custom HiFi Cables Silver RCA - DIn cable > Naim Snaxo Crossover > 4x Naim Nap 135 Mono Blocks > Naim SBL speakers using Naim Nac A5 speaker cable.

 

System 2.

Zenith SE > Chord M Scaler using Tellurium Q Black USB > Chord Hugo TT2 dac > Allnic T2000 KT150 Integrated amplifier using Tellurium Q Ultra Silver XLR > Naim SBL speakers using Naim Nac A5 speaker cable. (currently looking for a new speaker for this system and a new speaker cable to go with them).

 

All currently powered using a Musicline Powerigel (hedgehog) 6 way mains block.

 

As I normally use the Zenith for playback from the SSD I haven't really spent a lot of time or money on upgrading and improving of the internet switch side of things but will be looking into trying to make improvements in this area going forward.

[matthias]

1 hour ago, Yorkshireman said:

I currently have two systems on the go on the digital side of things both using the Zenith SE as a source component.

 

System1. 

Zenith SE > Allnic D5000 dac using Tellurium Q Black USB > Naim Nac 52 Pre amp using Custom HiFi Cables Silver RCA - DIn cable > Naim Snaxo Crossover > 4x Naim Nap 135 Mono Blocks > Naim SBL speakers using Naim Nac A5 speaker cable.

 

System 2.

Zenith SE > Chord M Scaler using Tellurium Q Black USB > Chord Hugo TT2 dac > Allnic T2000 KT150 Integrated amplifier using Tellurium Q Ultra Silver XLR > Naim SBL speakers using Naim Nac A5 speaker cable. (currently looking for a new speaker for this system and a new speaker cable to go with them).

 

All currently powered using a Musicline Powerigel (hedgehog) 6 way mains block.

 

As I normally use the Zenith for playback from the SSD I haven't really spent a lot of time or money on upgrading and improving of the internet switch side of things but will be looking into trying to make improvements in this area going forward.

 

Congrats,

you have two great systems.

 

With your Naims you are for sure familiar with the "Source First" principle.

So I would put "extreme" efforts into looking for the best server for your set-ups. 🙂

 

Matt

 

 

[Nenon]

If I was a Zenith SE user, I would buy the Phoenix USB reclocker. But that's me... 

[Yorkshireman]

The Taiko Audio mini or junior sounds like it will be interesting but I guess it could be years before that's out and available to purchase...

[matthias]

21 minutes ago, Yorkshireman said:

The Taiko Audio mini or junior sounds like it will be interesting but I guess it could be years before that's out and available to purchase...

 

A quote from Taiko Audio:

 

"We have been working on new product releases which we intended to launch at the now cancelled Munich high-end show. Those are going to be delayed for several months as several of our subcontractors are working at reduced capacity."
 

According to this it is not far away. I would contact Emile from TA via "contact" on their HP for further info.

 

Matt

[vortecjr]

23 hours ago, Yorkshireman said:

I currently have two systems on the go on the digital side of things both using the Zenith SE as a source component.

 

System1. 

Zenith SE > Allnic D5000 dac using Tellurium Q Black USB > Naim Nac 52 Pre amp using Custom HiFi Cables Silver RCA - DIn cable > Naim Snaxo Crossover > 4x Naim Nap 135 Mono Blocks > Naim SBL speakers using Naim Nac A5 speaker cable.

 

System 2.

Zenith SE > Chord M Scaler using Tellurium Q Black USB > Chord Hugo TT2 dac > Allnic T2000 KT150 Integrated amplifier using Tellurium Q Ultra Silver XLR > Naim SBL speakers using Naim Nac A5 speaker cable. (currently looking for a new speaker for this system and a new speaker cable to go with them).

 

All currently powered using a Musicline Powerigel (hedgehog) 6 way mains block.

 

As I normally use the Zenith for playback from the SSD I haven't really spent a lot of time or money on upgrading and improving of the internet switch side of things but will be looking into trying to make improvements in this area going forward.

What's wrong with the current server?  

[Yorkshireman]

Just now, vortecjr said:

Whats wrong with the current server?  

Nothing but If I don't upgrade mine in the near future it will become less valuable on the secondhand or part exchange market and it will be become more expensive to upgrade and also I can currently afford to upgrade and know that the Statement (will be) or Taiko Audio mini/Jr (should be) an improvement.

 

My current Server is OK and I've not had any problems with it but I feel ready to go to the next level and try and improve the SQ.

[Yorkshireman]

Can I just ask for my own interest and curiosity... Do people of this forum recognise the Zenith SE as a Player... A Server or a Streamer or all three ???

[FredM]

36 minutes ago, Yorkshireman said:

Nothing but If I don't upgrade mine in the near future it will become less valuable on the secondhand or part exchange market and it will be become more expensive to upgrade and also I can currently afford to upgrade and know that the Statement (will be) or Taiko Audio mini/Jr (should be) an improvement.

 

My current Server is OK and I've not had any problems with it but I feel ready to go to the next level and try and improve the SQ.

I could be wrong, but I thought Innuos also offers an upgrade possibility for their products? The gap between the MK3 and statement is quite big, you could check at Innuos if something is around the corner (to perhaps upgrade your SE)

[vortecjr]

33 minutes ago, Yorkshireman said:

Nothing but If I don't upgrade mine in the near future it will become less valuable on the secondhand or part exchange market and it will be become more expensive to upgrade and also I can currently afford to upgrade and know that the Statement (will be) or Taiko Audio mini/Jr (should be) an improvement.

 

My current Server is OK and I've not had any problems with it but I feel ready to go to the next level and try and improve the SQ.

You will be in the same predicament in six months because these servers are based in part on computer hardware which is constantly changing. Your decision should be based on the capability and performance of the unit as a whole since you are using it as server and player/renderer. I decouple the server from the player/renderer in the my system over the network. This allows me to consider server capabilities separately from the player/renderer performance.         

[Yorkshireman]

13 minutes ago, FredM said:

I could be wrong, but I thought Innuos also offers an upgrade possibility for their products? The gap between the MK3 and statement is quite big, you could check at Innuos if something is around the corner (to perhaps upgrade your SE)

 

There is of course the Phoenix as an upgrade for the SE but I'd rather just make the jump the the Statement.

[matthias]

8 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

You will be in the same predicament in six months because these servers are based in part on computer hardware which is constantly changing. Your decision should be based on the capability and performance of the unit as a whole since you are using it as server and player/renderer. I decouple the server from the player/renderer in the my system over the network. This allows me to consider server capabilities separately from the player/renderer performance.         

 

Several audiophiles found now that when the server has a certain quality level the server alone does sound better than as a combo with an additional endpoint.

 

Matt

[matthias]

10 minutes ago, Yorkshireman said:

 

There is of course the Phoenix as an upgrade for the SE but I'd rather just make the jump the the Statement.

 

Agree, afaik all reviewers mentioned that the SE plus Phoenix is inferior to the Statement.

The question is if you are happy with the Statement in the long term.

 

Matt

[vortecjr]

37 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Several audiophiles found now that when the server has a certain quality level the server alone does sound better than as a combo with an additional endpoint.

 

Matt

Several influencers vs several thousands customers:) I respect their decision to spend good money chasing their tails, but I can't in good faith recommend it to people because it's not necessary.    

[Blackmorec]

3 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Agree, afaik all reviewers mentioned that the SE plus Phoenix is inferior to the Statement.

The question is if you are happy with the Statement in the long term.

 

Matt

Hi Matt,

I’d just say that there are plenty of simple and reasonably inexpensive upgrades that will elevate the Statement’s performance to way beyond what most people dream is even possible from both local and remote streamed audio. Take those in conjunction with the 2 most recent InnuOS SW upgrades and I can’t see anyone becoming dissatisfied with the Statement’s SQ for quite a long time. Bear in mind that a well set up Statement makes Radio Swiss Classic internet radio at 128kbps sound absolutely wonderful. The recordings, musicianship and musical selections are first rate and that together with the Statement’s streaming SQ make for a very compelling proposition that fulfils all the usual audiophile requirements of tonal accuracy, PRaT, and spacial resolution.  While lt lacks the ultimate power and frequency extension of higher resolution material, the thing it reminds me most of are my concert hall experiences. 

[matthias]

@Blackmorec

 

Hi,

 

is there any chance for answering my question from post #25?

 

Thanks 🙂

 

Matt

[matthias]

35 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

Hi Matt,

I’d just say that there are plenty of simple and reasonably inexpensive upgrades that will elevate the Statement’s performance to way beyond what most people dream is even possible from both local and remote streamed audio. Take those in conjunction with the 2 most recent InnuOS SW upgrades and I can’t see anyone becoming dissatisfied with the Statement’s SQ for quite a long time. Bear in mind that a well set up Statement makes Radio Swiss Classic internet radio at 128kbps sound absolutely wonderful. The recordings, musicianship and musical selections are first rate and that together with the Statement’s streaming SQ make for a very compelling proposition that fulfils all the usual audiophile requirements of tonal accuracy, PRaT, and spacial resolution.  While lt lacks the ultimate power and frequency extension of higher resolution material, the thing it reminds me most of are my concert hall experiences. 

 

I understand your POV.

After reading the complete Taiko thread and other threads on WBF and particularly the impressions of @romaz it is my most honest opinion that I would not buy the Statement. I found with @romaz an reviewer who has similar priorities regarding music playback like me, the same is true for Emile Bok from Taiko Audio. 

 

Further I listened to Innuos at several Munich HE shows from the beginning and never liked the sonic signature, this includes the Statement.

 

But YMMV, this is OK

 

Matt

[Blackmorec]

On 5/23/2020 at 2:28 PM, matthias said:

 

BTW, did you compare wireless vs. FO, if yes what was the outcome?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

In my system my modem and router are on the ground floor on one side of a staircase and my hi-fi room is on the 1st floor on the other side of the stairs. As i was setting up my system, I had the opportunity to try a variety of different connection strategies, including 15m runs of low cost CAT5 and Synergistic Research Active SE CAT6 ethernet cable temporarily installed ‘bungee style’ over the stairwell, Internet over mains, various range extenders, various MESH systems and finally a wireless TPLink RE650 as Wi-Fi receiver. All links were fed into an AQVox SE switch via a short ethernet cable. Of all the strategies i tried the wi-fi TPLink RE650 sounded best, especially after modification to remove the onboard mains plug and SMPS and replace it with a DC2 then DC3 LPS. 

I could not try FO for this link due to difficulties routing the cable through several very sharp corners but in the meantime several members of this forum who’ve replaced ethernet with FO report significant improvements. At some point i will have someone pull a FO cable from my hi-fi room through the roof and down an external wall so i can upgrade to a full FO connection

[matthias]

15 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

In my system my modem and router are on the ground floor on one side of a staircase and my hi-fi room is on the 1st floor on the other side of the stairs.

 

Thanks, this is a similar situation like in my home.

I use WiFi as well and like it, but it is by far much less optimised than yours.

I am very curious about the upcoming findings of Emile regarding WiFi with the Extreme.

Sorry for being OT.

 

Matt

[FredM]

3 hours ago, matthias said:

 

I understand your POV.

After reading the complete Taiko thread and other threads on WBF and particularly the impressions of @romaz it is my most honest opinion that I would not buy the Statement. I found with @romaz an reviewer who has similar priorities regarding music playback like me, the same is true for Emile Bok from Taiko Audio. 

 

Further I listened to Innuos at several Munich HE shows from the beginning and never liked the sonic signature, this includes the Statement.

 

But YMMV, this is OK

 

Matt

I think it’s clear what you would do and who you echo, but imho this topic isn’t about you. It’s about helping Yorkshireman, from his perspective. It’s fine you don’t like the Innuos sonic signature at shows, Yorkshireman owns a Innuos SE.. 

[Rexp]

1 hour ago, FredM said:

I think it’s clear what you would do and who you echo, but imho this topic isn’t about you. It’s about helping Yorkshireman, from his perspective. It’s fine you don’t like the Innuos sonic signature at shows, Yorkshireman owns a Innuos SE.. 

Don't agree. According to title OP wants 'best server' so should welcome all suggestions. 

[Blackmorec]

11 hours ago, matthias said:

 

I understand your POV.

After reading the complete Taiko thread and other threads on WBF and particularly the impressions of @romaz it is my most honest opinion that I would not buy the Statement. I found with @romaz an reviewer who has similar priorities regarding music playback like me, the same is true for Emile Bok from Taiko Audio. 

 

Further I listened to Innuos at several Munich HE shows from the beginning and never liked the sonic signature, this includes the Statement.

 

But YMMV, this is OK

 

Matt

If I based my hi-if decisions on what I hear every year at Munich I’d be driving a 911 cabrio or sailing a nice little yacht instead of listening to hi-fi.  I mean that with no disrespect but Munich is a very difficult environment in which to get good sound from any hi-fi system. With overloaded mains demands, unfurnished rooms, and so many mobile phones, Bluetooth and wireless devices the air is literally cream-of-EMI soup. Then you’ve also got time needed for systems to settle in before sounding their best. 

I have owned both an Innuos SE and Statement for the last 3 years and in that time I have been completely unable to detect a sonic signature other than clarity, purity, ultimate spacial resolution, massive PRaT and rhythmic drive and an uncanny resemblance to how listening to live music feels (exciting, absorbing, thrilling, emotional etc). Other than that, the sonics change completely with every single recording.  Some sound full, rich, warm, deep, sparkling and fully enveloping, others a bit drier or thinner but I’ve never managed to hear anything about the sound that carries to all recordings other than a propensity to sound amazing per the above. 

While I am sure an Extreme sounds incredible, when I read the reviews of Romaz and more recently Ray Dude, it could be me writing about the Statement......read some of my reviews and opinions and you’ll see the similarity and use of the self same adjectives.  Essentially what we’re all talking about is high class digital system implemented in an optimum environment. In my case I have found that the Statement responds incredibly positively to improvements in the upstream network (as does the Extreme btw) while any attempt to improve SQ downstream with things like USB reclockers have so far been judged as downgrades. 

I would one day like to hear what an Extreme can do in a well optimised system, but so far I’ve not read anything that I find diverges markedly from what I’m hearing with a Statement, which is worlds better than anything I’ve ever heard at a hi-fi show, because if I had heard that kind of sound quality I’d have bought the system (assuming it was even remotely affordable).  The one exception I would make is Avantgarde Audio who each year manage to produce a sound that is quite thrilling....nowhere near what a well set-up Trio + Tube system can produce but exceptionally good non the less (I actually did buy that system 😉). My point being that judging any hi-fi based on impressions from Audio Shows is fraught with issues and problems unrelated to the actual gear. What you actually hear at hi-fi shows is typically how gear sounds when implemented in truly sub-optimal environments. 

[FredM]

6 hours ago, Rexp said:

Don't agree. According to title OP wants 'best server' so should welcome all suggestions. 

 

That’s my point, a general ‘best’ doesn’t exist, it about best for Yorkshireman. Talking about ‘best’ and even making a comparison with the Statement, while the Extreme jr isn’t available yet is speculation. Or better said, it depends.

 

OP is looking for a server at a similar price level as the Statement. Besides SQ and price of a component dozens other aspects can be important, which of course are all personal (match with DAC, ability to audition, dealer/service, sound signature, size, looks, resell value, upgrade ability, brand preference, etc).

[matthias]

1 hour ago, FredM said:

Talking about ‘best’ and even making a comparison with the Statement, while the Extreme jr isn’t available yet is speculation.

 

The question is if the OP wants to buy now or wait until more alternatives are released.

IMO, SQ should have top priority.

 

Matt