Best Server Currently to replace the Zenith SE

[Yorkshireman]

I'm looking to replace my Innuos Zenith SE and was hoping to get some advice from the good people of Audiophile Style on whether I should go for the Innuos Statement or if there is currently a better alternative at a similar price point.

 

I am not techy enough to build my own custom made server so will have to rely on an off the shelf ready to go option.

 

All feedback, advice and opinions are welcomed.

[AudioDoctor]

Edit, never mind, you said similarly priced...

 

I have no idea how much these things cost.

[Yorkshireman]

4 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

I have no idea how much these things cost.

Well the Innuos Zenith SE was £5,000 GBP RRP and the Statement is around £10,000 GBP RRP.

[AudioDoctor]

One of the Aurender devices may be worth taking a look at, I'm not sure which one equals those pounds though.

 

https://aurender.com

 

Perhaps the N10 model

[Blackmorec]

6 hours ago, Yorkshireman said:

I'm looking to replace my Innuos Zenith SE and was hoping to get some advice from the good people of Audiophile Style on whether I should go for the Innuos Statement or if there is currently a better alternative at a similar price point.

 

I am not techy enough to build my own custom made server so will have to rely on an off the shelf ready to go option.

 

All feedback, advice and opinions are welcomed.

Hi there,

just sharing a few of my experiences in bullet form

• the performance of the Zenith SE can be improved quite remarkably through high quality USB cable like Sablon or Synergistic Research
• Both the SE and the Statement respond well to better power cables
• the main area to upgrade a Zenith SE are with improvements to the front end network streaming. Optimizing routers, ethernet cables, power supplies, DC cables and vibration control can improve performance quite dramatically
• adding a Phoenix USB reclocking unit with its 3ppb OCXO clock and dedicated LPS seriously uplifts performance
• then there’s the Statement which adds a great deal more finesse, purity and improved timing which makes for a more detailed, natural, organic, musical presentation with state of the art pace, rhythm and timing.
• Finally there’s Statement with upgraded DC umbilical cables which subjectively uplifts performance by a very significant degree.
• Bottom line, the base performance of the Innuos units is quite magical but there’s a whole lot more to be had with some careful set up and network optimization. 

[McNulty]

For that budget I would also try to demo the new Grimm MU1.

[yellowblue]

Did you see that there is a new firmware out from Innuos? It gives some benefits for SQ - especially in the "experimental mode". I was in the same position as you if I should sell my SE or buy a Phoenix. Now I am tending to buy the Phoenix (just hoping for a good deal).

[Blackmorec]

Just to help put things into perspective.....Lets take a hypothetical system and budget as follows

A. Zenith SE at £0. (You already have it)

B. Network optimisation budget £2000*

C. Innuos Phoenix plus extra USB cable £4000

D. Innuos Statement £10,000

Lets designate SQ as the measure and use the signs < (less than) and  > (greater than) 

A+B >A+C

A+C<D

A+B+C >D

A+B+C< B+D

B+D has the potential to produce some of the best SQ you may have ever heard....at least in my case and I’ve heard many high end systems over 40 years!

* optimised network includes router, ethernet cables or FO, Linear Power Supplies and anti-vibration measures.

 

 

[k-man]

There’s a bit of talk around about a Taiko Extreme ‘Mini’ which can be half the price or less of the Extreme. I would expect it to perform better than the Statement.

[matthias]

14 hours ago, Yorkshireman said:

I'm looking to replace my Innuos Zenith SE and was hoping to get some advice from the good people of Audiophile Style on whether I should go for the Innuos Statement or if there is currently a better alternative at a similar price point.

 

I am not techy enough to build my own custom made server so will have to rely on an off the shelf ready to go option.

 

All feedback, advice and opinions are welcomed.

 

I would wait for the upcoming Taiko Audio "Mini Extreme", about half the price of the Extreme.

 

I can imagine that there will be a prototype at the Dutch Audio Event in September.

 

@k-man was faster than me, anyway 🙂

 

Matt

 

[Blackmorec]

4 minutes ago, k-man said:

There’s a bit of talk around about a Taiko Extreme ‘Mini’ which can be half the price or less of the Extreme. I would expect it to perform better than the Statement.

I’m interested why would you expect it to sound better than the Statement?  

[matthias]

5 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

I’m interested why would you expect it to sound better than the Statement?  

 

Taiko Audio will not launch a product which is not superior to its competitors.

 

Matt

[k-man]

12 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

I’m interested why would you expect it to sound better than the Statement?

A few Statement customers have moved onto the Extreme, and have passed on information about the mini to those who cannot afford the Extreme.

[Summit]

27 minutes ago, k-man said:

A few Statement customers have moved onto the Extreme, and have passed on information about the mini to those who cannot afford the Extreme.

 

It sounds like speculations. Time will tell if Jr will sound better or not. 

[matthias]

For all who are interested in the upcoming Taiko Mini Extreme there is some discussion starting here:

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-162#post-639006

 

Matt

[FredM]

21 hours ago, Yorkshireman said:

I'm looking to replace my Innuos Zenith SE and was hoping to get some advice from the good people of Audiophile Style on whether I should go for the Innuos Statement or if there is currently a better alternative at a similar price point.

 

I am not techy enough to build my own custom made server so will have to rely on an off the shelf ready to go option.

 

All feedback, advice and opinions are welcomed.

 

Hi Yorkshireman, for what it’s worth, at about a similar price range, this was my recent long list for a Roon server, adding three other candidates (JCAT, PF, SOtM)

- JCAT server*

- Grimm Audio MU1

- Innuos Statement

- PinkFaun 2.16x 

- SOtM server *

- Taiko server jr *

 

* mentioned as ‘in development’

 

 

[Yorkshireman]

13 hours ago, FredM said:

 

Hi Yorkshireman, for what it’s worth, at about a similar price range, this was my recent long list for a Roon server, adding three other candidates (JCAT, PF, SOtM)

- JCAT server*

- Grimm Audio MU1

- Innuos Statement

- PinkFaun 2.16x 

- SOtM server *

- Taiko server jr *

 

* mentioned as ‘in development’

 

 

Thanks for the list, very much appreciated. Have you made a choice yet or are you still deciding or waiting for the one you want to become available.

[Yorkshireman]

21 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Just to help put things into perspective.....Lets take a hypothetical system and budget as follows

A. Zenith SE at £0. (You already have it)

B. Network optimisation budget £2000*

C. Innuos Phoenix plus extra USB cable £4000

D. Innuos Statement £10,000

Lets designate SQ as the measure and use the signs < (less than) and  > (greater than) 

A+B >A+C

A+C<D

A+B+C >D

A+B+C< B+D

B+D has the potential to produce some of the best SQ you may have ever heard....at least in my case and I’ve heard many high end systems over 40 years!

* optimised network includes router, ethernet cables or FO, Linear Power Supplies and anti-vibration measures.

 

 

Thanks for your input and for taking the time to lay out the options in a very analytical and rational way. What would be your current ideal way of achieving your "B. Network optimisation budget £2000*" option ???

[FredM]

8 minutes ago, Yorkshireman said:

Thanks for the list, very much appreciated. Have you made a choice yet or are you still deciding or waiting for the one you want to become available.

Recently I bought the Grimm Audio MU1 😀. For my journey, you can have a look here:

 

[BigAlMc]

Hi @Yorkshireman,

 

FWIW I have the SE and have spent the last month or so contemplating whether to upgrade to Statement or add the Phoenix. I haven't pulled the trigger on either but am strongly leaning towards the Phoenix as cheaper and gets me 75% towards the performance of the Statement whilst saving money I can invest elsewhere in my system.

 

Just my own thinking in case it's useful. If you are completely happy with the remainder of your system then the Statement might make more sense for you. Likewise as @Blackmorec is suggesting some network optimisation can make a real difference and I know from his previous posts he's spent a lot of time and effort exploring this.

 

The Extreme sounds awesome but it's 2.5 times the price of the Statement. And the Extreme mini sounds great but it's just a plan right now. We'll find out in time I guess. The Grimm MU1 sounds intriguing too but haven't heard it yet. Meantime Innuos have a great track record so I wouldn't hesitate buying another of their products as the Zenith MKII and SE were both exceptional.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Summit]

I don’t know which to get, but believe that Network optimization will enhance your sound no matter which one you ultimately choose. The improvement on SOTA source goes fast and therefore I would choose one which the company say it will upgrade and/or that you can change vital components in like in the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme.

[yellowblue]

@BigAIMc Alan, I thought you were using Audiolinux NUCs instead of the SE? How do they compete after the Innuos firmware update?

[matthias]

13 minutes ago, Summit said:

I don’t know which to get, but believe that Network optimization will enhance your sound no matter which one you ultimately choose. The improvement on SOTA source goes fast and therefore I would choose one which the company say it will upgrade and/or that you can change vital components in like in the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme.

 

Agree,

if you have the money the Extreme is by far the best choice.

 

Matt

[Blackmorec]

1 hour ago, Yorkshireman said:

Thanks for your input and for taking the time to lay out the options in a very analytical and rational way. What would be your current ideal way of achieving your "B. Network optimisation budget £2000*" option ???

My choices are based on being resident in the UK.

 

To achieve an optimised network, I would look at products like the EtherRegen switch, the TPLInk Archer AC5400 tri-band router (for wireless or copper), TPLink RE650 access point/extender for wireless receiver, or a Ubiquity Edge router, good quality LPSs like Sean Jacobs or Paul Heinz, good quality Ethernet cords like Meicord or above and Atacama Evoque Eco Compact Series racks or bases for vibration control under PSs. 

 

I did the whole thing in a stepwise manner and each step was an improvement (at least in my network)

For your router you need to make sure you are getting a Broadcom chipset and avoiding the really crappy Intel Puma 6 with its serious latency problems.  For long runs, I prefer wireless (where I use the TPLink RE650) or FO rather than standard CAT5 or Cat 6 cable. 

 

Of course you can spend a lot more than £2000. I have in the meantime upgraded cables to a Synergistic Research loom, power supplies to SJ DC-3s with Mundorf Silver/Gold DC cables generously and beautifully fabricated by Nenon and SR power cables. Each upgrade makes a very audible positive step in SQ and the better your system gets, the bigger the upticks in SQ become. 

[matthias]

8 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

For long runs, I prefer wireless (where I use the TPLink RE650) or FO rather than standard CAT5 or Cat 6 cable. 

 

BTW, did you compare wireless vs. FO, if yes what was the outcome?

 

Thanks

 

Matt