The Environmental thread + Conventional (HI-FI) wisdom is almost always invariably wrong

[sandyk]

If your speakers and electronics are good enough , it is even possible to get very realistic sound from well recorded TV shows and movies from just 2 front speakers.
Several years ago, there was an episode of the local Soapie " Home and Away" where an injured person was adrift in a small boat in the "ocean" , where you could even hear the water lapping around the boat from all directions.

 This was from Dolby Surround encoding, without a Dolby decoder being used.

 With another well recorded movie that I was watching, my son came to my room and asked me where the running water was coming from.

[sandyk]

6 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Ummm, the soundstage is always behind the speakers - that is, it starts at the vertical plane where the speakers are located, and exists back from that.

 

 That is far from my experience, and also that of quite a few DIY Audio members who found that with the almost perfectly measuring amplifier designs from renowned Audio designer Douglas Self, that the sound mainly came from directly between the speakers, but didn't extend past the other sides of them. OR come from behind them.

[sandyk]

22 minutes ago, elcorso said:

 

Hi Alex,

 

This is not more related to recording techniques than amplifier & speaker design ?

 

Best,

 

Roch

 Hi Roch

 It can be, but usually the sound should be directly between the front of the drivers of both stereo speakers unless the phase is manipulated at the recording stage. Manipulating Phase can give all kinds of unusual effects, such as with the Olivia Netwton John track " Moth to a Flame" where a simulated moth should be heard doing an anti clockwise circular sweep extending both behind the speakers and behind the listening position if the size of the room is suitable., and your speakers and electronics are good enough. 

 If the room isn't wide enough the sweep will usually sound more like an ellipse with the depth longer than the width.

 

Kind Regards

Alex

 

P.S.

Do you have this track ?

[sandyk]

33 minutes ago, STC said:

Room size got nothing to do with the effect. All positional information of instruments is decoded by our brain by HRTF. All sound -be it natural or artificial - is  perceived and decoded the same way. If room size determines the effect, then headphones would not able to produce Newton's Moth of Flame effect. In stereo, height and rear sound are more of imagination than illusion.

 You are completely out of touch with reality !

 It also has to do with the amount of space behind the listening position among other things, the type of surface behind the listening position, and  including the distance between the speakers,  which will often be governed by the actual room width, and will not always be enough for optimum stereo performance, as well as how far out they are from the rear wall, which will also govern LF performance in many cases.

 

 e.g.

Attached is a positioning recommendation from the manufacturer of the DCM QED Transmission Line speakers

[sandyk]

We weren't discussing headphones in this instance, (or at least I wasn't) and with the CD track that I previously mentioned I hear a fairly similar, but not quite as good presentation via my DIY Class A Headphone amplifier when using ATH M70x headphones.

It falls down a little in the area of sound behind my head though.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, STC said:

depth cannot be perceived in a recording.   Depth like height is formed based on prior knowledge. 

Rubbish !

You  must have a very ordinary sounding  system.

" The Storm" from "Dr . Chesky's 5.1 Surround Show " , even when down converted to stereo can give a frighteningly real sensation of height, and even make you jump involuntarily, through a better than average system such as with big Nelson Pass Class A monoblocks.

It still gives a sensation of height through a high quality headphone amplifier and better than average headphones such as AT W1000 etc.

 Some years ago I made a compilation CD with this track on it, and listened to the CD when laying down with headphones on . I must have dozed off just before this track started, and suddenly became aware that there appeared to be an approaching storm. I looked out the window, but the sky was blue !

 

Well recorded material played through better than average gear can not only present a very real sensation of depth, but height too.

[sandyk]

41 minutes ago, STC said:

 

Rubbish is when insisting height information in stereo exist when  it is technically impossible.

 

 Bullshit !

 Is it any wonder that you are unable to hear the difference between well recorded 24/192 recordings and the same down converted to 16/44.1 ?

 Another A.S. member ( Audiophile Neuroscience) also  heard the Nelson Pass monoblocks  reveal this at the house of a Neurosurgeon friend of his , along with another couple of friends.

I have been fortunate to hear several systems in well optimised rooms that were worth more than $100K, including a $26,600 USD Gryphon Kalliope DAC .

 We also listened to the same recording through another high priced pair of mono blocks in the same session, and it couldn't make us jump involuntarily.

I think that you will find that even esldude will confirm that it is possible to convey a sensation of height with carefully placed microphones.

 

 It is obviously a waste of my time, and that of several other well experienced members to carry on any  meaningful discussions with you.

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, Paul R said:

A really good soundstage can extend quite a distance into the room, and can present almost tangible images. Much more depth, and height information.

 STC

 Note also that Paul is saying the same too.

BTW, I don't give a rat's rear end for any incorrect reports that you care to quote either.

 BYE !

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, STC said:

 

I can put few samples of bee buzzing from different heights. Would you dare to guess the height?  

 

 In case you haven't got it yet, I have no further interest in anything you care to post on the subject., especially since you aren't even able to appreciate the high res formats such as 24/192 and DSD as many other members do.

  

[sandyk]

Tell that to Chesky !! 

From David Chesky :  https://sonicscoop.com/2015/06/15/opinionated-audio-david-chesky-on-binaural-recording-the-business-of-specialized-sound/

 

Quote

"What, to you, is the pleasure in listening to a properly executed binaural recording? Explain it to someone who may never have experienced it.
Here’s the thing: most young people now are listening on headphones. Binaural is very cool, because this pinna [points to his ears] tells you everything – you don’t need 20 mics. When you record with the binaural mic in a pinna, it records all the location cues properly: height, depth, 20 locations around.

Think of 5.1 as a hula hoop around your head. But binaural is a sphere – it’s bigger bigger bigger. It’s a density. It’s really 3-D.

 

[sandyk]

See also:

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/new-methods-for-quantifying-sonic-performance/
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/new-methods-for-quantifying-sonic-performance-part-two/

[sandyk]

56 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Extending into the room - no

Just as well you added the YMMV, because you are incorrect .

[sandyk]

39 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

What is the basis for your claim that this speaker placement provides the most accurate playback? I know of no speaker manufacturer that recommends such placement, unless the peculiar layout of the listening room makes this the only practical solution.

 Hi Allan

 Please see my reply 56 on page 3.

 These old  speakers were Transmission Line types, but of course were just general recommendations, and nothing to do with Binaural.

 

Kind Regards

Alex

[sandyk]

17 minutes ago, elcorso said:

I do not want to discourage the audience and not everyone has a USB Lush cable with PN ^ 2F configuration 😉

 The BEST cable is still NO USB cable , with wherever possible the USB device plugged directly into a USB adaptor with the +5V and shield not connected through.

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

@STC, let's cut this out. The thread was doing fine (IMO). Now it goes off track.

 

 His own heavily censored thread has fizzled out, and now he wants to stuff this one up too.

 

[sandyk]

10 minutes ago, STC said:

 

How many of your post got deleted there? You have a big audience and I am sure you can continue to hoodwink. Remember, you have contradicted by the very person who made the 192 recording. 

 

Enough of the lies and unwelcome taking over of this thread, now that your own self serving thread has fizzled out.

 Please take the hint from the other high profile members !

[sandyk]

23 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

The wood of the forest is not even harvested (too much trouble) but just set on fire. Next replace with rubber trees (and/or smaller plants to harvest - I forgot which). Very very sad (and stupid).

 The majority of the rest of the world is trying to reduce CO2 emissions and this type of activity is plain lazy and irresponsible, when the wood from the forest could be used for other purposes .

We already have more than enough pollution from Volcanic activity without this added pollution.

Quote

The second cause of CO2 release is deforestation, according to research published by Duke University. When trees are killed to produce goods or heat, they release the carbon that is normally stored for photosynthesis. This process releases nearly a billion tons of carbon into the atmosphere per year, according to the 2010 Global Forest Resources Assessment.

https://www.livescience.com/37821-greenhouse-gases.html

 

[sandyk]

28 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

emissions from cattle are controllable as most US herds are in CAFOs, so you can put a roof over the ones w/o roofs, then collect the methane for use (instead of venting into the atmosphere)

 

 If the level of Methane is high enough to be collected, then surely it must also adversely affect the cattle ? 

[sandyk]

18 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

maybe you can ship the collected gas to Pompous Paul

 

That was a serious question, and as is so often the case you come back with a smart arse answer attacking another member,and appear to get away with it !

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, esldude said:

I agree with Paul.  Too sparsely populated in much of the USA for trains to replace regular transportation for daily needs.  Australia would be even more so except for isolated locations.  

Early last month Sydney unveiled a new driverless multi $ Billion  train route between Tallawong in far western Sydney and Chatswood on Sydney's lower North Shore which markedly reduced travel times for many, and took many cars and buses off the road.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, Paul R said:

Or they try to totally deny it?  

 In the case of Politicians, it is more likely due to their vested interest financial backers who have too much to lose financially if we get really serious about combatting Climate Change. They don't care as long as their profits keep increasing every financial year.

 

 

Michael Douglas in " Wallstreet 1987"

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, esldude said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/06/04/climate-change-coal-now-more-expensive-than-wind-solar-energy/1277637001/

 

 

https://www.powermag.com/the-power-interview-state-of-the-wind-solar-storage-and-hydro-markets/

 

Good news relatively speaking. 

 

 

 

 That's still of little comfort to residents of larger cities.

[sandyk]

https://au.yahoo.com/news/image-captures-reality-melting-ice-greenland-061614026.html

[sandyk]

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 6:30 PM, marce said:

This is why we need more lead in our batteries...😁

https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/background/

And in our solder...

 I agree.

 I also have first hand experience with whisker growth in Telecommunications Relay Sets that caused a s/c to the frame of the relay sets . This caused the need to replace many 100s of expensive springsets . In later days with Telstra I pioneered the technique of charging a large value capacitor to the exchange voltage of 52V to apply directly across the fault, which vaporised the whisker and restored the relay sets to normal operation. I never saw the faults reoccur in those relay sets either.

[sandyk]

Even planting Billions of suitable trees isn't going to help short term, if at all.