Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[brucew]

How do I access BIOS/UEFI on a Euphony Stylus installation? The OS SSD was newly partitioned and formatted for this NUC (5i5) and Stylus has been installed, but F2 does not work at boot up, nor do F10, Del, or Esc. It just goes on to boot up in Euphony. I'd like to see/adjust the Hyperthreading/Turbo.

 

Also, all the posts I can find on Core isolation seem to be for CPU's offering 8-12 cores, but no recommends for only 4 cores. (I'm not using DSD, Roon, HQPlayer etc., just Stylus playing 24/96 max with no upsampling.)

[di-fi]

7 hours ago, brucew said:

How do I access BIOS/UEFI on a Euphony Stylus installation? The OS SSD was newly partitioned and formatted for this NUC (5i5) and Stylus has been installed, but F2 does not work at boot up, nor do F10, Del, or Esc. It just goes on to boot up in Euphony. I'd like to see/adjust the Hyperthreading/Turbo.

 

Also, all the posts I can find on Core isolation seem to be for CPU's offering 8-12 cores, but no recommends for only 4 cores. (I'm not using DSD, Roon, HQPlayer etc., just Stylus playing 24/96 max with no upsampling.)

Bios has nothing to do with the os (Euphony/ Windows) and works even without OS installed. It’s already installed on the mobo and you have to access before the OS loads. Consult your mobo documentation.

Depending settings sometimes there could be close to zero seconds to press F2, F10 or any specific mobo related combination. But you can increase this. Using DEL or F2 etc should be the usual way.  Make sure you know what (and what not) to change remember it to avoid future surprises. If the bios was configured by a previous owner follow the reset procedure as documented in the manual.

 

Core isolation works perfectly for 4 cores. You should be able to find examples here, but look in the older pages when more users had less cores like 4.

[di-fi]

2 hours ago, di-fi said:

Bios has nothing to do with the os (Euphony/ Windows) and works even without OS installed. It’s already installed on the mobo and you have to access before the OS loads. Consult your mobo documentation.

Depending settings sometimes there could be close to zero seconds to press F2, F10 or any specific mobo related combination. But you can increase this. Using DEL or F2 etc should be the usual way.  Make sure you know what (and what not) to change remember it to avoid future surprises. If the bios was configured by a previous owner follow the reset procedure as documented in the manual.

 

Core isolation works perfectly for 4 cores. You should be able to find examples here, but look in the older pages when more users had less cores like 4.

Part two:

If your mobo allows, with hyper threading activated you can create virtual cores and for example double to 8 cores (from 4).

 

Indeed less common but examples with 4 core isolation:

0-1 gstp 2 stylus 3

0 gstp 1 stylus 2-3

some more info on these pages:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/4/#elControls_1022590_menu

 

[brucew]

13 hours ago, di-fi said:

Bios has nothing to do with the os (Euphony/ Windows) and works even without OS installed. It’s already installed on the mobo and you have to access before the OS loads. Consult your mobo documentation.

Depending settings sometimes there could be close to zero seconds to press F2, F10 or any specific mobo related combination. But you can increase this. Using DEL or F2 etc should be the usual way.  Make sure you know what (and what not) to change remember it to avoid future surprises. If the bios was configured by a previous owner follow the reset procedure as documented in the manual.

 

Core isolation works perfectly for 4 cores. You should be able to find examples here, but look in the older pages when more users had less cores like 4.

"manual"? I didn't know Stylus had a manual... and "reset" Euphony does not appear in the Knowledge base.

Perhaps you mean I should restore to the Windows OS from my image backup, mess with Bios/Eufi, and then resintall Euphony?

[brucew]

11 hours ago, di-fi said:

Part two:

If your mobo allows, with hyper threading activated you can create virtual cores and for example double to 8 cores (from 4).

 

Indeed less common but examples with 4 core isolation:

0-1 gstp 2 stylus 3

0 gstp 1 stylus 2-3

some more info on these pages:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/4/#elControls_1022590_menu

 

I had already tried 0 gstp 1-2 irq/42 3 in order to put my USB's IRQ on its own core and gstp on its own core. Sounded worse so I went back to the default. If I read the Core Isolation article correctly, 'gstp' is the player itself and 'stylus' is the program name for the remote interface so wasn't thinking I should need to be as concerned about 'stylus'. Did I misunderstand the 'stylus' program in core isolation?

 

In general my goals are to get the SQ on par with my CD transport. So messing about with settings I can be impressed with certain aspects of playback SQ but then I compare to my Audiolab CDT6000 and realise I've got a way to go yet.

[Yiakubou]

3 minutes ago, brucew said:

In general my goals are to get the SQ on par with my CD transport. So messing about with settings I can be impressed with certain aspects of playback SQ but then I compare to my Audiolab CDT6000 and realise I've got a way to go yet.

 

Maybe it's not that much about Euphony or the NUC itself, although it's good to have. What DAC do you use? Are you trying to compare CDT6000 into your DAC vs. Euphony NUC into what exactly?

[brucew]

23 minutes ago, Yiakubou said:

 

Maybe it's not that much about Euphony or the NUC itself, although it's good to have. What DAC do you use? Are you trying to compare CDT6000 into your DAC vs. Euphony NUC into what exactly?

CD transport and the Euphony NUC each feed into the same DAC. I don't really see the brand/model of the DAC is relevant. The SQ I get from CD transport > DAC is not perfect but is very good and my reference. It could be the USB vs SPDIF interface but will be testing that with a quality DDC in the next week to see what it improves. I don't really want to get into evaluations of what DAC or what DDC at this point as it distracts from the conversation at hand.

[di-fi]

1 hour ago, brucew said:

"manual"? I didn't know Stylus had a manual

https://audiokernel.com/EuphonyGuide4.pdf

1 hour ago, brucew said:

and "reset" Euphony does not appear in the Knowledge base.

please read slower or read my message again. you seem to mix up the OS and the BIOS hence my warning to not change BIOS settings without knowing exactly what you are doing. I do not want to be rude but that's what I understand from your reply.  

[davide256]

3 hours ago, brucew said:

CD transport and the Euphony NUC each feed into the same DAC. I don't really see the brand/model of the DAC is relevant. The SQ I get from CD transport > DAC is not perfect but is very good and my reference. It could be the USB vs SPDIF interface but will be testing that with a quality DDC in the next week to see what it improves. I don't really want to get into evaluations of what DAC or what DDC at this point as it distracts from the conversation at hand.

you could also try using Euphony server with trial HQPlayer output if Stylus is too bright, “shouty” on choral music. I’m moving away from NUC as digital output machine for these reasons but find HQPlayer used for output mostly tames these issues, even without using up sampling options

[brucew]

2 hours ago, di-fi said:

https://audiokernel.com/EuphonyGuide4.pdf

please read slower or read my message again. you seem to mix up the OS and the BIOS hence my warning to not change BIOS settings without knowing exactly what you are doing. I do not want to be rude but that's what I understand from your reply.  

OK, I see you meant that if a previous owner had changed the BIOS, I should reset to Intel's recommended settings.

 

I know that BIOS is not a part of Euphony but contains hardware boot parameters prior to loading an OS. Yet several people talk about turning Hyperthreading on or off in the Bios.

 

My SSD, was previously running Windows 11 and could use Advanced Startup options to reboot into EUFI and change Bios -- obviously with care and appropriate knowledge about what I was changing and what that would do. No such option in Euphony... and no hardware keys seem to work to that end. So I refer back to my question: is my only option to restore to the Windows OS from my image backup, mess with Bios using Advancved Startup and then reinstall Euphony?

[di-fi]

2 hours ago, brucew said:

OK, I see you meant that if a previous owner had changed the BIOS, I should reset to Intel's recommended settings.

You only would not be able to get into bios screen before the OS loads if previous owner choose not to show BIOS startup screen for example.

 

2 hours ago, brucew said:

I know that BIOS is not a part of Euphony but contains hardware boot parameters prior to loading an OS.

Correct

 

2 hours ago, brucew said:

Yet several people talk about turning Hyperthreading on or off in the Bios.

They are correct, hyperthreading  is not a part of Euphony. Euphony will handle any amount of cores (including additional virtual cores). In Euphony you can isolate the cores. No need to reinstall windows or Euphony ;-)

Have fun!

 

 

[Johnseye]

On 4/9/2023 at 10:20 AM, brucew said:

How do I access BIOS/UEFI on a Euphony Stylus installation? The OS SSD was newly partitioned and formatted for this NUC (5i5) and Stylus has been installed, but F2 does not work at boot up, nor do F10, Del, or Esc. It just goes on to boot up in Euphony. I'd like to see/adjust the Hyperthreading/Turbo.

 

Also, all the posts I can find on Core isolation seem to be for CPU's offering 8-12 cores, but no recommends for only 4 cores. (I'm not using DSD, Roon, HQPlayer etc., just Stylus playing 24/96 max with no upsampling.)

 

I would spam F2 as soon as you power on the NUC. Sometimes the OS loading screen come up pretty fast. Try it many times. I would be surprised if you couldn't access the BIOS that way. Installing Windows shouldn't be necessary. 

[aangen]

On almost every non Apple pc, pressing the delete key continuously or F2 continuously gets you into bios. Maybe you know someone who can help you? It’s pretty basic stuff. Possibly the most basic stuff. When the machine starts it looks for a signal from you whether to access bios or continue normally thus avoiding it. It has nothing to do with Euphony or Windows.

[flkin]

Check also the keyboard - sometimes the connection isn’t good and the F2/Del doesn’t register. Change keyboard to be sure. 

[StreamFidelity]

11 hours ago, brucew said:

is my only option to restore to the Windows OS from my image backup, mess with Bios using Advancved Startup and then reinstall Euphony?

 

Windows can change some power settings, such as to maximum performance, power saving, or something else. 

 

Advanced Windows tools allow, for example, to control the clock frequency of individual cores. Euphony allows you to adjust the clock frequency of all cores within the limits set by the BIOS. 

 

Activating or deactivating Hyperthreading & Turbo Mode for Euphony can only be done in the BIOS. 

 

It makes no sense to reinstall Windows, since certain settings only run with the operating system. Try some settings in Euphony. If everything is good leave it like this. Alternatively you change some BIOS settings. For high power operation I have published some settings here.

 

On 3/3/2020 at 3:27 PM, StreamFidelity said:

BIOS stands for "basic input / output system" and is the firmware on the mainboards. You can access the BIOS settings by clicking the F2 key several times during booting.

[Johnseye]

13 hours ago, flkin said:

Check also the keyboard - sometimes the connection isn’t good and the F2/Del doesn’t register. Change keyboard to be sure. 

 

Yes, especially if the keyboard is wireless.

[brucew]

Yeah, tried all that, several times, from a wired keyboard. No luck. Oh, I do have a different SSD for this PC with W10 installed! I can just swap out disk 0 and boot up to get access to the BIOS and then switch back.

 

Meanwhile I've been trying a few frequency scaling settings.

Interesting. On a NUC5i5 used as a single box Stylus player (no Roon, no upsampling, no DSD), I tried the following CPU frequencies: 800, 1200, 1600, 2000 and found that 1600 sounded more natural. 800 and 1200 could get a little congested and lost the space between notes and instruments, yet 2000 was a little too much, as was the ‘Performance’ setting on the CPU Governor. I found that a frequency of 1600 and the Governor using the ‘Conservative’ program sounded more natural and yet had good separation and definition of details and transients.

This also seemed to make less noticeable the slight timing issues (as compared to the CDT6000’s SPDIF clock).

Obviously, there’s a lot of frequency settings not yet tried, but will listen a bit here.

[brucew]

It does seem that the best CPU frequency settings (Max freq & CPU Governor) are not the same booted to RAMroot as with RAMroot disabled. That is interesting.

[di-fi]

2 hours ago, brucew said:

It does seem that the best CPU frequency settings (Max freq & CPU Governor) are not the same booted to RAMroot as with RAMroot disabled. That is interesting.

Thanks for sharing

[Johnseye]

19 hours ago, brucew said:

It does seem that the best CPU frequency settings (Max freq & CPU Governor) are not the same booted to RAMroot as with RAMroot disabled. That is interesting.

 

What were your findings with ramroot on and off? 

 

[brucew]

6 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

What were your findings with ramroot on and off? 

 

With ramroot off, I liked 1.6GHz and Governor=Conservative.

But with ramroot, those settings were a bit too sharp and yet the music's sense of space was not as good.

 

With ramroot on, i prefered 1.2GHz and Gov=userspace or perhaps 'schedutil'

[Yiakubou]

Posting this ticket I just submitted to Euphony support here, in case it helps others experiencing similar issue:

 

I've been having the following issue for a long time, even since Euphony v3, although in v3 this was not the case every time and with every version. Since I have v4 this happens every time. I even think I reported this in the past already, but it was never resolved and that ticket is now forgotten I guess...

I am using M2 SSD with my music in a USB housing connected to a USB port of my NUC running Euphony Stylus. Every time I reboot or shut down & power on, either Euphony does not boot properly at all, or the USB SSD is not properly detected, I get messages like library path not found and after a while Euphony freezes, I cannot do anything via web interface (I get Euphony offline message or page not found), the HDD LED is blinking for a very long time and nothing happens. It just freezes or something. I have to do hard reboot and I always got it working only after several attempts. This was quite annoying as I had to deal with this after every update or simply every time I wanted to shut down my Euphony PC.

Now I think I've found a way how to get it working, without several restarts in a kind of trial & error way, although I'm not sure if all these steps are really needed. Anyway, this way always works:
- Clear play queue
- Shut down the PC
- Disconnect the USB SSD
- Power on the PC
- Clear image cache and rebuild library
- Connect the USB SSD
- Unmount the drive, wait a few seconds until Euphony app completely refreshes everything
- Mount again, wait a few seconds until Euphony app completely refreshes everything
- Add Music folder to the library
- Euphony scans the library and everything is fine

It feels like there's a problem with some timing or something or with Euphony trying to do multiple things in parallel with the USB SSD after restart or shut down, resulting in some conflicts and this kind of freeze at the end. Anyway, this way works fine every time. Maybe good to know if other users experience similar issue, or perhaps this info will help you to resolve this kind of behavior.

[PavelDosko]

I admire your patience

[Yiakubou]

😄 I know... And I know you moved to JPLAY + Windows, but that's not a good solution for me for other various reasons (not really sound-wise). Euphony is still the best sounding system for me and my use case(s), so yeah... I have to be patient

[BCRich]

2 hours ago, Yiakubou said:

It feels like there's a problem with some timing or something or with Euphony trying to do multiple things in parallel with the USB SSD after restart or shut down, resulting in some conflicts and this kind of freeze at the end. Anyway, this way works fine every time. Maybe good to know if other users experience similar issue, or perhaps this info will help you to resolve this kind of behavior.

Check your Boot Sequence in your MB Bios. Maybe something there is causing the issue. It almost seems like it is trying to boot from the M.2 USB drive instead of the primary boot drive. Hope this helps….

Mike