Sonore opticalModule v0.95 - discontinued

[barrows]

On 5/4/2019 at 8:57 AM, iLguapo said:

1- I’m trying to keep things simple

2- don’t want the clatter of a bunch of boxes 

3-waiting on the optical version of the sonic transport i7

4-already own a switch 

if it doesn’t work , then I’ll be ordering a module 

This all makes perfect sense to me...  Users have to understand that Sonore cannot test all possible Network combinations!  So, the solution is that Sonore offers information/recommendation on gears that have been tested and are known to work together.  This does not meant that combinations not recommended by Sonore will not work, it only means that Sonore cannot guarantee that another combination will work.  Once plenty of opticalRendus and Signature Rendus (optical) are out in audiophiles homes I am sure we will see many folks reporting on all kinds of combinations which work, and which do not work, but to get started, Sonore recommends what is known to work reliably.

Your approach, to try what you have first makes sense.  As far as the opticalModule goes, one MAY experience better performance using the opticalModule in place of an "ordinary" FMC or "ordinary" Switch with optical output, after all better performance is the reason the opticalModule was developed.

[barrows]

I would just add, that the opticalModule is priced very fairly, considering the cost to produce and the quantities involved.  Sure, if it was entirely produced in China (built, assembled and packaged), in batches of 5000 units, it could be less, but it still would cost way more than an ordinary commercial FMC.  The opticalModule includes a Femto level oscillator, and ultra low noise linear regulators.  Parts like this cost >10x what the parts used in a standard commercial FMC cost-so between the limited production, and the additional parts cost, one should be able to understand the price differential.

As to the performance: it has been widely reported elsewhere on these forums, and by other audiophiles who have experimented, that the quality of clock for the Ethernet signal, even in upstream gear, makes a difference to sound quality.  The opticalModule addresses this possibility.  Offering the opticalModule also allows Sonore to offer a "System" (system Optique) for our customers which can drop into a (wired) Network environment and allow for a very easy transition to an optically based connection scheme.

I look forward to hearing the results from customers (and perhaps reviewers) as to their experiences of the sound quality differences between the opticalModule and an ordinary commercial FMC!  It will not be too long now folks! 

[barrows]

@vortecjr, you mean opticalModule, right?

[barrows]

1 hour ago, jcn3 said:

@barrows and @vortecjr -- i have my om hooked up with a 9v/500ma jameco lps that i had lying around.  at 9v, the om runs very, very warm.  anything to be concerned about?

 

in the interim, i've replaced that lps with a 5v ifi ipower.

I do not even have an opticalModule yet... damn!  So I have not measured/tested it yet here.  I see it is specced to take up to a 9 VDC supply, but the higher voltage will produce more heat.  If you can keep your hand firmly on the case without getting too hot it is probably OK, but I would personally choose to run it at a lower voltage-I'll be running mine at 5VDC with a DIY supply (power supply quality will matter, this has been tested internally by Sonore's VP).  I also wonder if 500 mA might be a little on the low side, but it is probably OK.

Sorry I cannot provide better info, but until I have one myself I just cannot be sure.

[barrows]

59 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

I would say it's a bigger jump in sq than the 1.4 board change in the microRendu was.

Wow, that is a nice improvement then...  Enjoy!  

I will get an oM in my system (powered by custom DIY linear supply, feeding the Signature Rendu SEoptical) today, looking forward to it, finally.

[barrows]

@cat6man, great to hear that you had such a nice improvement.  Here, adding the oM to my set up with the Signature Rendu SEoptical only resulted in a small increase in what I would call "purity".  Previously I was using a cheap FMC, but powered it with a very, very good ultra low noise ultra low impedance linear supply.

It is clear now from reports, that everyone's results will vary a bit, due to Network configurations.

[barrows]

16 minutes ago, cat6man said:

 

@barrows

 

how about downgrading your system for a quick test?

can you put the SFP directly into your router and remove your FMC/oM?

i'm curious if you'd also notice a big difference

 

basically wondering if SFP in router might be a "don't go down that road if you don't have to"  recommendation

I do not have an SFP cage in my Router, and really not a lot of time here for testing right now.  I am thinking there seems to be enough evidence to suggest that having the optical conversions done in simpler environment (FMC vs. Router) might be an advantage, but it probably all depends on the models of everything as well.  When I do simple RF measurements, my Router makes a lot more noise than the little cheap FMC, and of course uses way less power (a good indicator also of less noise).

Of course then there is the test of trying on optical NIC inside a computer for testing the direct approach as well...  I would like to try that sometime with a really well designed NIC powered by a dedicated ultra low noise, ultra low impedance linear supply.  the very, very good supply on the FMC was a nice improvement here.

[barrows]

30 minutes ago, Axiom05 said:

Funny thing is that my ultraDigital runs cool with a 9v SBooster, the uR did not

That is because the ultraDigital does not use much current at all, so even if the internal regulators have to drop a handful of volts, there is just not nearly as much power dissipation.

[barrows]

@charlesphoto:  What was the length of your previous cable for comparison?  I am considering making a short star quad, OCC DC cable with solid core wire just for some fun comparison (this would be from my custom 5 VDC ultra low noise/impedance linear supply to my single optical module).  I found some very, very special star quad wire (also quite costly) which uses foamed FEP insulation and OCC solid core copper.

[barrows]

@John769, It is on my radar to test single mode fiber at some point, but I am too busy to try it now.  If anyone is running single mode fiber cabling/SFPs with the opticalModule and/or optical/Rendu I would love to hear about it and your results.  As long as one uses 1 Gb modules it should work, but we at Sonore cannot recommend such until it is confirmed to work.

[barrows]

New review on the opticalModule and Signature Rendu SEoptical at Dagogo:

 

https://www.dagogo.com/audio-blast-sonore-systemoptique-signature-rendu-se/

[barrows]

Hey, opticalModule users, here is the set-up we will use at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest to feed the optical signal to our Signature Rendu SEoptical.  This is the opticalModule with a prototype power supply (5 VDC 1A), Sonore AC cable, and custom (short) star quad, single crystal, copper DC cable.  Production versions of this power supply are in development, expected availability, 4-6 weeks after RMAF....

 

 

[barrows]

New review up from the folks at Positive Feedback:

 

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/sonore-signature-rendu-se-system-optique/

[barrows]

5 minutes ago, Adyc said:

 

Can I use UltraSupply to power OM? What is the advantage of this power supply over UltraSupply to power OM?

 

I am looking for a PS for OM. If this new PS is better than UltraSupply, I rather wait.

IMO, 7 VDC is not ideal for the oM.  The power supply design for the oM is specifically designed for its requirements.  That is not to say that one could not use the ultraSupply for the oM, but the oM will run rather warm with 7 VDC input.

These two power supplies have different designs, but both are excellent, the new supply is just more suitable for the different power needs of the oM.  Price is unknown at this time, but will be similar to that of the ultraSupply 7.0 VDC.

[barrows]

39 minutes ago, dminches said:

Are you saying that the uptone ultra cap LPS-1 at 5V isn't well matched with the oM?

LPS 1.2 at 5 VDC is good for the opticalModule.  Sonore does not recommend the LPS 1 for any of our products.

[barrows]

I repeat:  Sonore does not recommend the LPS 1.0 for any of our products.  Indeed it will work for the microRendu, ultraRendu, and opticalModule, but it will not provide the best performance.  We do recommend the LPS 1.2 for those products (but not for the opticalRendu).

[barrows]

12 minutes ago, Cormorant said:

It is really trippy that I can clearly hear the signature of each power cord.  What is the physics mechanism for THAT?

1st, what power supply are you using?

 

If you can tell us the physics, that would be interesting!  In any case, some thoughts on power cables, in no particular order:

 

1.  The quality of the AC power at the wall is different in every home, and changes as well throughout the day, so we cannot expect similar results from different locations when it comes to power cable designs.  These things will have different results in different locations.

 

2.  Conventional wisdom suggests that noise on the AC is responsible for most, if not all, differences between power cables; in other words, different power cables act as different filters to noise, at different frequencies.  Depending on what kind of noise is on the AC line to begin with, different cables will have different results.

 

3.  The better the design of a given power supply is, the less influence a power cable should have on the sound, as a better designed power supply will be more immune to the quality of the incoming AC power (and the noise) than a worse designed power supply.  This is not to say that even the "best" power supply will not exhibit some change with different power cables. 

 

4.  If we had "perfect" AC  (which would be described as exactly 115 VAC, with a perfect 60 Hz sine wave with 0.0000% distortion) I would expect that any reasonable power cable (which is not actually "broken") of 14 AWG or more, which runs a reasonable distance from the source of the "perfect" AC power (say 6' or less) would provide as good performance as is possible.  But no one has perfect AC power  (a good AC regenerator, such as those made by PS audio are pretty close though).

[barrows]

I am not intimately familiar with the SR-4, although the reputation is so good I am a bit surprised that it would be very sensitive to the power cable used.

[barrows]

1 minute ago, Cormorant said:

Barrows, keep in mind that I can clearly hear the basic characteristics of each power cord through a digital optical link.  TRIPPY!!!

Yes, I agree.  The theory behind this which our design engineer John Swenson has is that the clock phase noise is the one type of noise which is passed along through the optical interface: this theory explains why there is an improvement in performance using the opticalModule (with its Femto level clock) versus a standard Cheapo FMC.  So far this theory has not been proven (by objective measurements) but everyone hears the improvement with the opticalModule.  Clock phase noise is very dependent on the power supply feed to the clock module itself, again, in the optical module we use an ultra low noise linear regulator to supply the clock power.

So, if indeed it is the phase noise of the clock which is passed even through optical connections which is responsible for the differences, it would make sense to conclude that the noise of the power supply, and hence the power cable feeding that supply, could be "heard".

 

I must admit, that these levels of noise are all so low, that it is very hard to believe what we are hearing!  But I have yet to find any user who has not heard improvements going to the opticalModule versus a cheapo FMC unit.  Indeed, everyone who upgrades the power supply for the optical module to our Sonore Power Supply reports a nice improvement as well.  Personally, I use the Sonore Power Supply to feed the opticalModule, with one of our Sonore Power cables (made for us by Cardas) and it sounds fantastic.  Although it is a bit maddening from an engineering perspective that these differences appear to be audible! 

[barrows]

32 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

I intend to purchase an opticalModule to use upstream of an EtherRegen as follows:

 

FIOS > Synology router > wired > opticalModule > fiber > EtherRegen > wired > Innuos Zenith 

 

My question is about the power supply for the opticalModule.  Sonore offers three different choices of power supplies:  1) Jameco, 2) SGC and 3) Sonore.  My questions is this:  how much does the power supply matter on the upstream/dirty side?  Would there be an obvious sound quality improvement from selecting the Sonore power supply over the other two?

 

 

Every customer who has used the Sonore Power supply 5VDC on an upstream oM has noted improved performance vs. any other supply they have tried.  The theory for this goes as such: the opticalModule incorporates a femto level main oscillator for the Ethernet signal, and John Swenson has a theory as to why the upstream clock's phase noise matters.  Many users report improved sonics when an upstream Ethernet clock is upgraded.  So, then, clock performance is very dependent on having a perfectly clean DC power supply, inside the oM there is an ultra low noise, linear, regulator feeding the clock, but even so, the main power supply feeding the oM appears to matter as well.

We have been selling a lot of these supplies for both oM users, and Sonic Transporter customers who are having the internal oM installed in the ST.  

 

Now, directly to your question: is the difference "obvious", so far I have not heard of anyone who has tried the Sonore supply for the oM who has not reported an improvement...  On the other hand, only you can decide what is "obvious" to you in your system, and it would be presumptuous of me to suggest that this difference would be "obvious" to you.

 

BTW, a  little more about these supplies:  They are hand built to order, by me, here in my Colorado shop.  The 5VDC version is different from the 7VDC version (the 7 VDC version is designed to suit the needs of the Rendu Series), it is designed specifically to suit the needs of the oM (but of course will work fantastically for anything needing 5 VDC at 1A or less).  This supply is fully linear in nature, with toroidal transformer, ultra low noise soft recovery diodes, high quality metal film and thin film resistors, high quality long life filter capacitors, and an ultra low noise, ultra low output impedance, discrete linear regulator circuit.  We developed this supply to be as affordable as possible, while still offering near Signature Series level of performance, without resorting to Chinese production or mass production techniques.  Everything is hand soldered to a very high standard. 

[barrows]

21 minutes ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

Can anyone confirm the current demands for the opticalModule at 5v?  

This is going to be somewhat dependent on the sample rate one is streaming.  And boot up is going to require more current than running it.  We recommend a power supply capable of 1A output at 5VDC.  In use while streaming DSD 256 (4x) I have about 500 mA current use.

[barrows]

32 minutes ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

 

Just received an Allo Shanti with both 5v/1A and 5v/3A so will give both a try in time.  I'm running DSD 512 so likely on the higher side I guess (50mbit/s).

The 1A supply will be entirely adequate.

[barrows]

9 minutes ago, Axiom05 said:

I've noticed that when using Roon the orange light on my two opticalModules stays on continuously, even when playing 16/44 files. I have two other renderers here and when streaming to each, the orange light flashes. Any idea why I'm seeing this and does it mean anything as far as RAAT goes? I ask because I am still trying to determine why Roon sounds so bad in my set up, wondering if RAAT is overloading something in my network.

Sounds like something is wrong, you should have a solid green light on the oMs.  I am no Networking expert though...  What is the Network path?  Note the oM needs to be using Gigabit devices.

 

Nice system BTW!

[barrows]

I took a look at the descriptions of the Shanti.  It looks like it would be OK to use the two outputs and consider them "isolated", but I would caution folks that this will not produce the absolute best performance.

Isolation is rarely (never really) complete, and the Shanti is a good example of a way to talk about this.  The Shanti produces two "isolated" outputs by using a single transformer, with two secondaries.  This means that the two secondaries, while using completely separated wire coils, will still share some noise through capacitive coupling from one secondary to another.  More complete isolation would be provided by a supply which used two separate transformers, and even better isolation would be provided by using fully separate supplies, in separate boxes, with separate power cables.  Even better isolation than that would be provided by two separate supplies, with two separate power cables, plugged into two separate circuits.  Even better isolation than that would be provided by two separate supplies, with two separate power cables, plugged into two separate circuits, where the two circuits were on opposite phases of the homes AC distribution.

 

So, one can see that "isolation" is always a matter of degree, rather than being "absolute".  

 

The one other thing which concerns me about the Shanti, is that by its description, it appears to rely on capacitance after the regulator to define the output impedance (ability to respond to quick current spikes) as they claim LDOs (low dropout regulators) have poor transient response.  Well, only some LDOs have poor transient response.  Really good voltage regulation circuits have much better transient response than any capacitor, and the best power supplies will be designed with a really good voltage regulator, followed by a very small amount of capacitance (as the capacitance will tend to "slow" the response of a really good regulator).  While the Shanti appears to be a well designed power supply, and seems to be a bargain at its price, higher performance can be achieved by using a power supply designed specifically to provide the lowest output impedance (speed) possible.  This is no criticism of the Shanti, at its price it appears to offer great value; the truth is, there is some degree of getting what you pay for here: really good parts cost more (like ultra low noise, ultra low output impedance regulators), and even when you make things in Asia you have to pay more for the best possible parts.

[barrows]

As I work with Sonore, I really do not have much (if any) direct experience with power supplies from other companies, as I just use Sonore supplies, or custom supplies suited for the purpose.  Generally, though, i can say that to a point you get what you pay for in power supplies, there are good performance reasons that the more expensive supplies cost what they do.   Ultimately, a supply such as the Shanti may be all one "needs" though, if one can define that!

 

As for general set up, with Ethernet (optical or CAT 6A) I like to see the computer gears away from the audio system as much as possible: this is the big benefit of Ethernet, as it allows for long distances without any concern for transmission quality.  I like just having all the "less clean" stuff (servers, routers, switches, their power supplies)  away from the audio system on a separate circuit (hopefully in another room, closet, basement, etc), then with an opticalModule there, and then a long run of optical cable to the audio system with an opticalRendu/Signature Rendu, etc.  This way the audio system is all made for audio, low noise, low emissions stuff, running on a  clean circuit branch.  So I like to see the set up as two sides: one where the commercial computer gear is (noisy side), and one where the audio system is (all made for audio gear hopefully with very low noise circuitry) and the two sides are isolated by the optical link between them.