Can I Run Romex Wire Between Joists In Photo?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - Does anyone know if it's safe to run Romex electrical wire through the joists pictured below? The insulation seen in the photo is from 1941. The wire would run on top of the insulation.

 

This is so I can put in another electrical outlet that runs to my dedicated sub panel for my audio system.

 

[Speedskater]

On 11/12/2018 at 7:06 PM, One and a half said:

Doesn’t matter , old or a new install, an IR test is necessary, just passing the info about AS rules, which btw will change with new ones introduced this year and effective Jan 1 2019.

What is the "IR" test that you reference?

[davide256]

When running electrical wire through boards or beams, first find out what your local electrical codes require and follow them,

that protects you in case of home insurance  claim for wiring caused fire.  Assuming you have 2x4 or bigger boards

 

1) use metal kick plates to protect the wire at any point where you must run the wire close to  wall surface in a living area.

Board to steel girder/cinder block may create a situation where you have to notch a 2x4 board and run the wire

close to the surface of the board. This  shields the wire from wallboard nails/screws

 

2) do not  run wiring  on top of the  attic boards that make up your living area ceiling, as stated above drill holes through

the center of the board and run wire through those holes. This protects you if you walk on, place things on or later

add flooring onto your attic.

 

3) use wiring staples at every bend in the wire and approximately 2' apart on the wire runs to attach the wire vertically
to permanent support boards. The wire should be in the center of the board away from accidental contact.

This keeps the wire out of harms way and anchors the wire against ill advised tugs on the wire after installation

When going board to board, drill holes in the center, best habit is to do this  near  the top end of the board to avoid

trip hazards in open board areas.

 

4) do not use the "stab" holes on the back of wall plugs as these are poor connections, eventual point source failures

from corrosion. Always use the side screw down terminals for maximum surface area contact. If you are using 12 gauge

you will be forced to do this but then you should also install a dedicated 20A breaker

 

I have heard the story about rats eating newer wiring, you would need to assess if this is an issue. I'd be more concerned

about this in garage and basement of an older house, not a loft.

Be very sure that what you have for wiring is not aluminum or copper clad aluminum. They are a poorer conductor and

a fire hazard

 

[davide256]

23 hours ago, Superdad said:

What wire gauge is your Romex?  If it is for your audio system I’d try to stick with #10.

Sounds like a code violation to me....

[charlesphoto]

Those of you who are concerned about mice or rats eating wires - then deal with your mice or rat problem first! Having run out a pair of rats from my basement office last month I can tell you they wreak more havoc than just eating wires. Once their ‘toilet’ was exposed the smell was almost unbearable. Rodent proof before worrying about sound quality. 

[davide256]

On 11/12/2018 at 10:44 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Guys - Does anyone know if it's safe to run Romex electrical wire through the joists pictured below? The insulation seen in the photo is from 1941. The wire would run on top of the insulation.

 

This is so I can put in another electrical outlet that runs to my dedicated sub panel for my audio system.

 

mmm, looking at your picture you may have no option other than shielded cable/conduit  if the space is too small to crawl through and staple. You will need to strap the cable/conduit down at its endpoints for stress relief.

[charlesphoto]

Also, if your insulation has lots of silvery glitter in it then you may not want to disturb it. 

[Speedskater]

21 minutes ago, davide256 said:

mmm, looking at your picture you may have no option other than shielded cable/conduit  if the space is too small to crawl through and staple. You will need to strap the cable/conduit down at its endpoints for stress relief.

From the photo, it looks like holes can be drilled in the framing. No need for conduit or straps inside the framing area.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

Sounds like a code violation to me....

 

Never mind. I see Speedskater already replied.

[Speedskater]

5 hours ago, Speedskater said:

What is the "IR" test that you reference?

Thinking about it some more:

a] I doubt that it's an "InfraRed" test. That is a test that our insurance required once a year. An inspector with an infrared camera would look at all the possible electrical hot spots in the factory and office.

b] So maybe it's an "Insulation Resistance" breakdown test.  This is a challenging test, usually done when a building structure is compromised (say by a flood or fire).  It requires a very skilled technician.  Because the test voltage may be 500V DC, everything that might be damaged needs to be disconnected. A modern home has so many items hardwired that it's a big chore.  Things like GFCI receptacles, light dimmers, remote controls, USB chargers, smoke detector system security systems, LED indicators and most every hardwired appliance.

[One and a half]

8 hours ago, Speedskater said:

What is the "IR" test that you reference?

With the new rules, the actual testing procedure is more streamlined. Once the fixed wiring is installed and all compliance with that occurs, the next stage is electrical testing.

Results are recorded.

 

So the IR or Insulation Resistance test is performed as a normal part of testing, like for polarity and earth fault. 

[Speedskater]

So the Insulation Resistance test would be part of the preliminary new building construction testing. Before receptacles, switches or any of the items I listed are installed.

That entire testing sequence is a good new construction plan.

[wgscott]

On 11/14/2018 at 8:05 AM, charlesphoto said:

 Having run out a pair of rats from my basement office last month  

 

You were very lucky to have a couple that responsibly elected not to have children.

[The Computer Audiophile]

46 minutes ago, wgscott said:

 

You were very lucky to have a couple that responsibly elected not to have children.

Too good. 

[charlesphoto]

That’s funny. And yes, lucky! My wife and I were not so responsible...

[wgscott]

54 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

That’s funny. And yes, lucky! My wife and I were not so responsible...

 

Let me try this again:  You almost certainly have more than two.

[charlesphoto]

19 minutes ago, wgscott said:

 

Let me try this again:  You almost certainly have more than two.

 

Well, fortunately not. Perhaps one was ‘with child’ when I caught it, but definitely dodged that bullet. 

 

Kids, well that’s another story. Why I guffaw (mostly with jealousy) every time somebody mentions their ‘listening room.’ Of course both bring way more pleasure than any hifi ever could...

[wgscott]

8 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

 

Well, fortunately not. Perhaps one was ‘with child’ when I caught it, but definitely dodged that bullet. 

 

[JDoyle]

The short answer is yes, use 12/2 and go with a 20 amp breaker at the box.

Don’t pull it tight, leave slack. I doubt you can use metal staples, try to get some cushion screw clamps like these to hold where possible (I bet access will be difficult).

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-3-8-in-Stainless-Steel-Cushion-Clamp-2-Pack-Case-of-5-XTM-401/301639708

use common sense, you’ll be fine.

YouTube has tons on wiring connections as well.

 

JD

 

[monteverdi]

Why not use BX I.e. metal clad wires instead of NM (Romex). Should have much better noise rejection as it is twisted and screened and rodent  proof. I have to renovate my house which still has a lot of post (knob) and tube wiring and that is terrible considering safety and electrical noise issues (single spaced wires). At least for my listening room I am planning 10 or 8 awg (not much cost more if one does not get audiophile grade).

[esldude]

Having done some BX stuff, no, don't do it.  I know the suggestion is offered with the best intentions.  So not cracking on anyone.  But I'd go romex as applicable (and in Chris' case it is) or I'd go conduit and THHN wires.  BX is really not getting you much and the other solutions are better for this kind of situation.  

[realhifi]

I see zero issues with your proposed ideas.  IF you are drilling holes just use guide as someone already posted and have at it.  Personally I probably wouldn't drill any holes and simply staple the romex on top of the wood (as is now standard practice in new construction).