when using a LPSU what else is important, other than ripple/noise?

[Superdad]

4 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

Alice is the new secretary.

 

Yet Bob will get in big trouble if he speaks to Alice about his Johnson noise. 

[PeterSt]

8 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Yet Bob will get in big trouble

 

[Hugo9000]

1 hour ago, Sonicularity said:

I'm sitting here listening to music on my RME ADI-2 DAC that uses an SMPS.  What noise?

I've been reading all about that DAC today.  I had been planning on getting the Benchmark DAC3 down the road, but now I'm thinking the RME might be the route to take.

[jabbr]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

 

There is always noise.  It's like the 5th law of thermionicdynamics or sumthin...

 

 

my fav is Johnson noise

 

My house has lots of noise, and not in the power lines ?‍♂️

 

I'm jealous of all you guys who can listen for hours to a few electrons rattling around the inside of a capacitor ?

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

 

My house has lots of noise, and not in the power lines ?‍♂️

 

I'm jealous of all you guys who can listen for hours to a few electrons rattling around the inside of a capacitor ?

 

 I bet that you can't blame someone else for creating all the "noisemakers"   though !

[marce]

8 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

examples please?

Just about every bit of kit out there... In fact I'll go further, every bit of kit, from NI's stuff to MRI scanners.... There will be a few SMPS's scattered around the kit, on the boards for main board supplies... In all your home gadgets, everywhere...

[the_doc735]

19 minutes ago, marce said:

Just about every bit of kit out there... In fact I'll go further, every bit of kit, from NI's stuff to MRI scanners.... There will be a few SMPS's scattered around the kit, on the boards for main board supplies... In all your home gadgets, everywhere...

thank you! ~ but what is the solution, if there is one?

Please remember even the innuos zenith SE has a supermicro mobo that can be used as part of a conventional PC! AND it uses a LPS technology, not SMPS. That is classed as a dedicated Hi-Fi device; so it's still a computer and it's used for audio/music. That's just one example that promotes the use of LPS technology in hi-end audio. 

 

I know there are many many SMPS in general use all over the place (that don't depend on ripple/noise, impedance, etc. in their specific applications), but why have I read comments all over the place saying things like: "LPSU are best for dedicated Hi-Fi applications? And! ~ many Hi-end audio component sellers do promote LPSU technology over SMPS?

[the_doc735]

24 minutes ago, marce said:

Just about every bit of kit out there... In fact I'll go further, every bit of kit, from NI's stuff to MRI scanners.... There will be a few SMPS's scattered around the kit, on the boards for main board supplies... In all your home gadgets, everywhere...

So are Hi-Fi/Hi-End sellers and builders deceiving  us with this supposed LPSU myth? Do they already realise that it is pointless because your whole domestic environment is swamped with SMPS's through your household ring-mains? i.e. so it's pointless just having LPSU's on Hi-Fi, when the rest of your home is enveloped with SMPS's because that noise WILL PENETRATE your Hi-Fi?

[the_doc735]

5 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 I bet that you can't blame someone else for creating all the "noisemakers"   though !

Hi,

 

hope you are well?

I apologise if I somehow offended you? Not intended! I'm sorry! I just answer posts/questions honestly!

Your "constructive/positive" posts/knowledge is valuable to me.

Take care, have a nice day!

[marce]

There are good LPSU's and there are bad LPSU's same with SMPS's its not as simple as SMPS bad LPSU good...

[jabbr]

7 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

thank you! ~ but what is the solution, if there is one?

 

There is no solution for you.

 

You can build a great audio system purely with SMPS, purely with LPS and with every blend in between. If your quest is a particular power supply that is not popular in the market, then be prepared to pay high prices (or build it yourself).

 

If your goal is low noise then characterize a reasonable noise floor for your system and consequently your desired power supply. If you are looking for nanovolt power supply noise in a system that has millivolt noise, then you are spending a whole bunch extra for no benefit. 

 

Same  for leakage aka parasitic currents— is nano-amp current noise relevant?  

 

 

[Ralf11]

12 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

why have I read comments all over the place saying things like: "LPSU are best for dedicated Hi-Fi applications? 

 

because the ability to type is a much lower bar than the ability to provide correct engineering evaluations

 

you can also read comments all over the place saying things like: vaccines are dangerous; global climate change is not a problem; vinyl is better than digital; evolution is wrong and species were specially created in one go; and MQA is great

 

be cautious about the place you gather food from & the place you gather information from

[the_doc735]

On 10/17/2018 at 7:10 AM, marce said:

Just about every bit of kit out there... In fact I'll go further, every bit of kit, from NI's stuff to MRI scanners.... There will be a few SMPS's scattered around the kit, on the boards for main board supplies... In all your home gadgets, everywhere...

Except SMPS's don't work like linear when providing low power, they can go into current saving mode and create noise in the audible frequency range.

"SMPS's create noise in the audible frequency range."

 

Well, yes!

[the_doc735]

16 hours ago, jabbr said:

 

There is no solution for you.

 

You can build a great audio system purely with SMPS, purely with LPS and with every blend in between. If your quest is a particular power supply that is not popular in the market, then be prepared to pay high prices (or build it yourself).

 

If your goal is low noise then characterize a reasonable noise floor for your system and consequently your desired power supply. If you are looking for nanovolt power supply noise in a system that has millivolt noise, then you are spending a whole bunch extra for no benefit. 

 

Same  for leakage aka parasitic currents— is nano-amp current noise relevant?  

So what about arguments like those of sean jacobs, he has stated in emails to me that "it is still beneficial to buy my LPSU (nanovolt) and stick a pico (millivolt) on the end of it because the overall result will still be superior to any ATX SMPS (inc. superflower & seasonic)"?

[the_doc735]

11 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

because the ability to type is a much lower bar than the ability to provide correct engineering evaluations

 

you can also read comments all over the place saying things like: vaccines are dangerous; global climate change is not a problem; vinyl is better than digital; evolution is wrong and species were specially created in one go; and MQA is great

 

be cautious about the place you gather food from & the place you gather information from

well, what you have just said could save me considerable amounts of money! So, it's OK to keep my wall-warts on my NAS, router & 2 FMC's?  ...despite SMPS technology backwards feeding parasitics into the whole system?

Any opinions for and against this?

[marce]

5 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

"SMPS's create noise in the audible frequency range."

 

Well, yes!

You don't have a clue what I am on about...

LPSU's also create noise well into the audio frequency range, 50/50Hz hum anybody....

[jabbr]

5 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

So what about arguments like those of sean jacobs, he has stated in emails to me that "it is still beneficial to buy my LPSU (nanovolt) and stick a pico (millivolt) on the end of it because the overall result will still be superior to any ATX SMPS (inc. superflower & seasonic)"?

I say there is no solution for you because there is no one perfect answer that everyone agrees on.

 

That above is a reasonable compromise. I would focus on obtaining a low noise motherboard/processor because using a low noise supply with a high power/high noise board doesn’t reduce your noise as significantly.

 

Thats why I use a very low power network renderer, and yes I use an LPS with it/them.

[marce]

5 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

So what about arguments like those of sean jacobs, he has stated in emails to me that "it is still beneficial to buy my LPSU (nanovolt) and stick a pico (millivolt) on the end of it because the overall result will still be superior to any ATX SMPS (inc. superflower & seasonic)"?

You meaN THESE SUPPLIES...

https://www.logicsupply.com/uk-en/products/components/power-supplies/picopsu/

 

[the_doc735]

4 hours ago, jabbr said:

I say there is no solution for you because there is no one perfect answer that everyone agrees on.

 

That above is a reasonable compromise. I would focus on obtaining a low noise motherboard/processor because using a low noise supply with a high power/high noise board doesn’t reduce your noise as significantly.

 

Thats why I use a very low power network renderer, and yes I use an LPS with it/them.

"there is no solution for you" ~ EXCEPT ~ "obtaining a low noise motherboard/processor".

Would you mind giving some examples of these mobo's & CPU's please?

"BUT!" ~ doesn't @PeterSt  say BIGGER & more powerful is Best?

 

"and yes I use an LPS with it/them." ~ So, it's NOT OK to keep my wall-warts then?

 

Cheers!

[the_doc735]

4 hours ago, marce said:

You don't have a clue what I am on about...

LPSU's also create noise well into the audio frequency range, 50/50Hz hum anybody....

...so please explain what you are on about then?

 

Cheers!

[the_doc735]

3 hours ago, marce said:

You meaN THESE SUPPLIES...

https://www.logicsupply.com/uk-en/products/components/power-supplies/picopsu/

 

Yes I think Sean means those kind of devices. (on a LPSU).

 

Cheers!

[rhern213]

Don't mean to hijack the thread but didn't want to open a whole new one.

 

I wanted to get someone's opinion who's more technically savvy about LPSU's if this unit seems like something worth trying?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Accubasston-Steady-Linear-Power-Supply12V-15V-18V-24V-DAC-Phono-Head-Amp-Steamer/172967696616?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

I wanted to try it out but not sure if it's worth the cost based on the components used? Would it be any better than one of the random el-cheapo Chinese LPSU's on ebay?

 

Thanks for any help!

[the_doc735]

41 minutes ago, rhern213 said:

Don't mean to hijack the thread but didn't want to open a whole new one.

 

I wanted to get someone's opinion who's more technically savvy about LPSU's if this unit seems like something worth trying?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Accubasston-Steady-Linear-Power-Supply12V-15V-18V-24V-DAC-Phono-Head-Amp-Steamer/172967696616?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

I wanted to try it out but not sure if it's worth the cost based on the components used? Would it be any better than one of the random el-cheapo Chinese LPSU's on ebay?

 

Thanks for any help!

Sorry I can't help, but welcome to my thread anyway! There are some really knowledgeable members in here, just hope they can 'pop-up' and help you somehow?

[Ralf11]

11 hours ago, the_doc735 said:

well, what you have just said could save me considerable amounts of money! So, it's OK to keep my wall-warts on my NAS, router & 2 FMC's?  ...despite SMPS technology backwards feeding parasitics into the whole system?

Any opinions for and against this?

 

I'd keep the wall warts on anything on the storage side of the chain to the DAC (or other isolator/de-jitter-izer).  Isolate the DAC via WiFi or optical, or buy one with opto-isolators.

 

Focus on gnd loops, the analog side of the DAC and other methods that make sense in terms of electronics and known laws of physics.

 

Focus HARD on acoustics, not electronics.

 

Focus HARD on best recordings & mastrings, not electronics.

 

In general, electronics is last and makes the least difference.  One thing you see on here (besides some Subjectivist Swill and crazed anti-vaxer mumbo-jumbo...) is people working on that final one ppt of SQ AFTER they have spent 10's of thousands on everything else.  Don't let that confuse you.

[PeterSt]

1 hour ago, rhern213 said:

I wanted to get someone's opinion who's more technically savvy about LPSU's if this unit seems like something worth trying?

 

Please. Read into such stuff on a daily basis and learn / know that it is all babble. I have no idea how to explain it or "teach" for the better, but at sentence #3 I have a OMG.

 

A kind of trick could be to source the same product elsewhere, over there. Then you get the grasp of "millions" of these same devices being out there, next each supplier making up his own story. Or, find out what this same supplier supplies more to you.

In this case our Chinese good guy is based in the US (over here they are all located in the UK - ahum) but anyway good that you can buy a steamer. 

 

We offer custom made for input voltage other than AC 120V. Lead time will be 60 days upon clear payment.

 

Don't. It's the bad guy.