Does a DAC need a pre-amp

[mansr]

5 minutes ago, SuperRu said:

Are we proving Michael Lavorgna's point here?

Did he have one?

[davide256]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

 

crummy recordings

Under performing transport solutions destroy bass dynamic range, they dither the signal. And amps start to act up as the music signal gets closer to a pure DC voltage.

[beerandmusic]

10 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

 

I don't care if you like or dislike what is in my signature. I have my own tastes and priorities.

 

Then why did you ask for examples?

 

I am just showing you how you sound to others....i don't typically talk like that, but that is how you sound.  I saw Chris told you to tone it down too...that should be a good hint that the way you speak to others isn't appreciated...i am just suggesting you think twice before knocking others equipment.  That is all.  You don't care what others think, others probably don't care what you think either, so why don't you just try to be respectful.  You can offer opinions and still be respectful.

 

[Speed Racer]

2 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

Then why did you ask for examples?

 

I am just showing you how you sound to others....i don't typically talk like that, but that is how you sound.  I saw Chris told you to tone it down too...that should be a good hint that the way you speak to others isn't appreciated.

 

Dude.....you need to back off.

[beerandmusic]

2 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Dude.....you need to back off.

 

my point exactly...enough said.

[plissken]

Bottom line is if you purchased a DAC with fixed output, many software players are going to offer suboptimal, decimating volume controls.

 

The fact that my 9 year old EMU 1212M would most likely use the iFi DAC to mop the floor shouldn't be lost on people here.

 

If a card that I picked up for $85, with balanced I/O, AES/EBU, ADAT, SE output, Non-decimating volume control in .5 dB stepping has all this why couldn't it be in a $349 DAC? 

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Those GE tubes aren't very good....

 

I would take a hard look at the Don Sachs Model 2 line stage:

 

http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/custom line stage.html

 

I'll have mine in a couple of weeks.

 

Will you do a comparison thread?

[Speed Racer]

1 minute ago, Ralf11 said:

 

Will you do a comparison thread?

 

On the tubes or the preamps?

[Ralf11]

16 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Under performing transport solutions destroy bass dynamic range, they dither the signal. And amps start to act up as the music signal gets closer to a pure DC voltage.

 

you mean a mechanical transport?  or the general phenomenon of moving the bits to a DAC via cable, etc.?

 

I know some of my recordings sound great on drums & others suck, so I blame the recording engineers.

[Ralf11]

38 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

My equipment list in my signature. Provide examples please.... 

 

Maggies...

[Speed Racer]

12 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

Maggies...

 

I listened to Maggies.....and I like the speakers I have a quite a bit better.

[GUTB]

22 minutes ago, plissken said:

Bottom line is if you purchased a DAC with fixed output, many software players are going to offer suboptimal, decimating volume controls.

 

The fact that my 9 year old EMU 1212M would most likely use the iFi DAC to mop the floor shouldn't be lost on people here.

 

If a card that I picked up for $85, with balanced I/O, AES/EBU, ADAT, SE output, Non-decimating volume control in .5 dB stepping has all this why couldn't it be in a $349 DAC? 

 

When was the last time you compared an old PCI card’s audio processor to a modern audiophile DAC? To a quality preamp?

[davide256]

51 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

you mean a mechanical transport?  or the general phenomenon of moving the bits to a DAC via cable, etc.?

 

I know some of my recordings sound great on drums & others suck, so I blame the recording engineers.

Transport to me means turntable/arm/cartridge solution,  cd media spinner/laser reader, tape player, and digital renderer. They are devices where music data in one form is translated to an audio signal in a different form. Bass improvement (clarity, weight, tone color) is often the first recognizable sign of significant improvement from a transport  upgrade.

[Ralf11]

I'm not understanding how mechanical speed variation in reading bits off a CD would affect SQ.  Shouldn't the buffers handle this?

[esldude]

1 hour ago, plissken said:

Bottom line is if you purchased a DAC with fixed output, many software players are going to offer suboptimal, decimating volume controls.

 

The fact that my 9 year old EMU 1212M would most likely use the iFi DAC to mop the floor shouldn't be lost on people here.

 

If a card that I picked up for $85, with balanced I/O, AES/EBU, ADAT, SE output, Non-decimating volume control in .5 dB stepping has all this why couldn't it be in a $349 DAC? 

Are there still lots of software players that control volume this way? 

 

Most will switch to at least 32 bit float or 64 bit and then put out a volume reduced 24 bit data stream.  Those aren't really causing much of an issue at all.  One could say this eventually causes lowest recorded details to be low in level, but with 24 bit gear which at best approaches 20 bit performance you'll have such effects down in the noise floor anyway.  So no real difference than if you did analog attenuation for practical purposes.  Well except perfect channel to channel tracking at lower volumes when done digitally. 

[plissken]

20 minutes ago, esldude said:

Are there still lots of software players that control volume this way? 

 

Most will switch to at least 32 bit float or 64 bit and then put out a volume reduced 24 bit data stream.  Those aren't really causing much of an issue at all.  One could say this eventually causes lowest recorded details to be low in level, but with 24 bit gear which at best approaches 20 bit performance you'll have such effects down in the noise floor anyway.  So no real difference than if you did analog attenuation for practical purposes.  Well except perfect channel to channel tracking at lower volumes when done digitally. 

 

Some do, some don't. 

 

But I guarantee you that if you didn't do your research and purchased a DAC with only fixed level outputs you are playing roulette. Now on the other hand if you purchased a DAC that has it's own volume control then the playback application volume sits at 100% and you manage it down stream. 

[plissken]

1 hour ago, GUTB said:

 

When was the last time you compared an old PCI card’s audio processor to a modern audiophile DAC? To a quality preamp?

 

I have a quality pre-amp...  for christ's sake I only listed it a few times in this thread. 

 

I'd put my EMU 1212M up against the iFi DAC2 doing PCM any day of the week you want to sit for it blind. 

[davide256]

22 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

I'm not understanding how mechanical speed variation in reading bits off a CD would affect SQ.  Shouldn't the buffers handle this?

For LP's motor speed variation itself  isn't that different between a modest and expensive disc player. What differs is the damping & isolation of the transport  protecting the disc read from being dithered by rotational and external vibration.  In a CD player you are reading pits off the  disc surface at high speed, I suspect that vibrations causes same because  you see a lot of hardening in better CD transports.

 

 

[esldude]

14 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Some do, some don't. 

 

But I guarantee you that if you didn't do your research and purchased a DAC with only fixed level outputs you are playing roulette. Now on the other hand if you purchased a DAC that has it's own volume control then the playback application volume sits at 100% and you manage it down stream. 

I would say the majority of common modern DACs have on board non-decimating volume functions built in.  Or at least several of the common ones list that on the datasheet.  

[esldude]

6 minutes ago, davide256 said:

For LP's motor speed variation itself  isn't that different between a modest and expensive disc player. What differs is the damping & isolation of the transport  protecting the disc read from being dithered by rotational and external vibration.  In a CD player you are reading pits off the  disc surface at high speed, I suspect that vibrations causes same because  you see a lot of hardening in better CD transports.

 

 

From your usage, I don't think dither means what you think it means.  Jittered maybe is what you have in mind?

[Ralf11]

It seems a false analogy to compare LP & CD speed variations.  Jitter or Dither, I don't understand how speed variation is an issue for CD

[GUTB]

So to sum up the thread:

 

1. Active analog preamps for best quality.

 

2. If sound quality is a secondary concern, a quality digital volume control should be used (good DAC or HQPlayer, etc).

 

 

[kumakuma]

27 minutes ago, GUTB said:

So to sum up the thread:

 

1. Active analog preamps for best quality.

 

2. If sound quality is a secondary concern, a quality digital volume control should be used (good DAC or HQPlayer, etc).

 

 

 

 

 

You really need to make an effort to read more and post less...

 

 

[STC]

Anyone tried experimenting with Mytek's digital and analogue's volume? 

 

In my case, I am using Mytek (the old 192 DSD) as DAC/ preamp often setting the volume in analogue mode. I don't think I could easily identify one to be better than the other. 

[GUTB]

6 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

 

 

You really need to make an effort to read more and post less...

 

 

 

You say that with a complete lack of irony, don’t you?