Why Do People Come To Computer Audiophile To Display Their Contempt For Audiophiles?

[jabbr]

9 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

And how do you propose to establish this audibility correlation? Using what method?

Or is that presumed done and we are about to hear all about it?

 

I'm not "in the industry" but if I were to bring a product to market it would most likely be a device that could automate useful measurements beyond the typical FFT spectrum analyzer.

 

I don't claim to have the audibility correlation. If people could agree on what measurements are relevant (I have my ideas) then an audibility correlation could be worked on. What I can tell you is exactly what the electrical difference between a "100 femtosecond" and "10 picosecond" difference in "jitter"/phase error look like. Is this important?

[Jud]

A J, I’m curious: Do you have any control over the amplification used for your speakers at shows?  If so, how do you choose?

[semente]

11 minutes ago, Jud said:

A J, I’m curious: Do you have any control over the amplification used for your speakers at shows?  If so, how do you choose?

 

His speakers are either active or have active (sub)woofers and easy to drive magnetic planar mid-tweeters:

 

http://www.soundfieldaudio.net/home.html

 

 

But apparently AJ also uses fancy cables:

 

 

 

[AJ Soundfield]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

I don't claim to have the audibility correlation. If people could agree on what measurements are relevant (I have my ideas) then an audibility correlation could be worked on.

So on what basis are these products sold?

How was it first decided to design, engineer and manufacture in lower "phase noise" a priori?

 

Quote

What I can tell you is exactly what the electrical difference between a "100 femtosecond" and "10 picosecond" difference in "jitter"/phase error look like.

A measure showing this at the DAC output would be terrific, TIA

[AJ Soundfield]

36 minutes ago, Jud said:

A J, I’m curious: Do you have any control over the amplification used for your speakers at shows?

Yes, I insist that a remote is provided, with at least volume control.

 

Quote

If so, how do you choose?

A check for 1/2 the room cost is usually suffice.

 

Btw, I'm disappointed it took this long to redirect to me/my speakers. Let's keep focus there, lest we start talking about USB widgetry and phase noise hearing etc

[plissken]

2 hours ago, jabbr said:

 ... but they aren't routinely done. Don't fault @Superdad for that ... that said more measurements are entirely appropriate.

I'm not singling him out. They are all guilty when they don't back claims.

 

You can't claim an un-measurable change. Whether the incremented tape be of instrumentation or of properly bias controlled audience evaluation.

[AJ Soundfield]

33 minutes ago, semente said:

But apparently AJ also uses fancy cables:

And amps etc!

 

[semente]

1 minute ago, AJ Soundfield said:

And amps etc!

 

 

 

Amp fancyness is bit more difficult to judge unless you recognise the model/manufacturer.

How about fancy kettle leads, is that where you draw the line?

[beerandmusic]

13 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

And amps etc!

 

so i checked out your website...

 

Curious, since you demo your speakers you want to use the best amps to show them off...what dac/music player are you fond of to demo your speakers?

 

[AJ Soundfield]

11 minutes ago, semente said:

 

 

Amp fancyness is bit more difficult to judge unless you recognise the model/manufacturer.

How about fancy kettle leads, is that where you draw the line?

Cary Audio and no I don't draw such lines. Something makes you happier/more satisfied, buy it!

A TAG-Heuer doesn't have to tell 1 femtosecond "better" time for me to prefer wearing one over a Timex.

I can prefer something purely subjectively, without any need for objective reasons.

[semente]

1 minute ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Cary Audio and no I don't draw such lines. Something makes you happier/more satisfied, buy it!

A TAG-Heure doesn't have to tell 1 femtosecond "better" time for me to prefer wearing one over a Timex.

I can prefer something purely subjectively, without any need for objective reasons.

 

Do you demo 2 channel or multi-channel?

[AJ Soundfield]

1 minute ago, semente said:

 

Do you demo 2 channel or multi-channel?

2ch audio shows, 2ch, my personal demos like the upcoming club meet, will be MCH.

[AJ Soundfield]

14 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

Curious, since you demo your speakers you want to use the best amps to show them off

I'm about to remove that possibility of audiophile "best" nervosa by going all active

 

Quote

what dac/music player are you fond of to demo your speakers?

Depends on the audience, since that's who I'm demoing for.

For my personal needs, Foobar and Audioengine D2s are suffice

[mansr]

26 minutes ago, semente said:

How about fancy kettle leads

The tea tastes much better if the water is boiled with a Shunyata power cord. Everybody knows that.

[jabbr]

43 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

So on what basis are these products sold?

How was it first decided to design, engineer and manufacture in lower "phase noise" a priori?

 

Low phase error clocks are important for radio communications, radar, GPS etc, and most of the real literature comes from those fields. 

 

Best I can tell as the point in which digital audio came into being and with the introduction of the CD player, there was a desire to "mod" the CD player to upgrade clocks. This is also about the time the advantages of upsampling became apparent.

43 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

 

Quote

What I can tell you is exactly what the electrical difference between a "100 femtosecond" and "10 picosecond" difference in "jitter"/phase error look like.

A measure showing this at the DAC output would be terrific, TIA

More to come but @PeterSt has done some  work and has published measurement from the NOS1a. You'd think MSB which sells rather expensive clock upgrades might have something to justify eg $35k

[semente]

2 minutes ago, mansr said:

The tea tastes much better if the water is boiled with a Shunyata power cord. Everybody knows that.

 

And kettles are great for burning in power cables.

[pkane2001]

13 minutes ago, semente said:

 

And kettles are great for burning in power cables.

 

Or boiling-in liquid cables?

[Ralf11]

what is 'close-in' phase error?

[plissken]

32 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

what is 'close-in' phase error?

It's when you pit stick under just one arm.

[Dragonfyr]

5 hours ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Wait, it's not just those crazy "Objectivist" folks insisting relevance only at DAC output? Who knew...

 

And how do you propose to establish this audibility correlation? Using what method?

Or is that presumed done and we are about to hear all about this "linewidth" sound?

 

Why can't you trust your ears? Seems some people have serious problems in that area. 

Its the sound not just the music and its how it makes one feel. "Non-audiophiles" don't get the sound part.  Audiophiles are so keen on the sound. Why aren't you? 

[Dragonfyr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqJmqhu2ga0

 

A very honest talk from a person who knows his stuff.  This should be compulsory viewing for everyone who participates on this forum. 

 

Non-audiophiles do not apply.

 

[Jud]

5 hours ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Yes, I insist that a remote is provided, with at least volume control.

 

A check for 1/2 the room cost is usually suffice.

 

Btw, I'm disappointed it took this long to redirect to me/my speakers. Let's keep focus there, lest we start talking about USB widgetry and phase noise hearing etc

 

It was a sincere and serious question, and not intended as a “redirection” of anything at all.  I was interested in what characteristics you look for in amplification to present your speakers to best advantage.  Why you should be coy about amplifiers I don’t know, but if you don’t care to provide any information in answer, I don’t suppose there’s really anything to do about that.

[jabbr]

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

what is 'close-in' phase error?

 

Take a pure sine wave and compare to the sine wave in an electrical circuit. The deviation in voltage is called voltage error. The deviation in phase is called phase error. In a complex Fourier transform the voltage error refers to variation in the real coefficient and phase to the imaginary coefficient. This voltage and phase error is also called "noise".

 

If you look at both the voltage and phase errors as a function of time, there is typically a baseline error as well as a 1/f component (there are actually several components). This 1/f noise is basic to physics. What this means is that the amount of noise increases as the frequency decreases. This is a fundamental property of electrical circuits and other physical systems.

 

What this means is that the amount of phase error increases as the frequency of the phase error approaches the center frequency of the sine wave. The phase error is largest for small offset frequencies -- this phase error "close" to the center frequency is called "close in" phase error.

 

This is important because the magnitude of this phase error is the largest for clock oscillators. That's where the money is.

[Ralf11]

Thx - I added a little Google Fu on fundamental vs ubiquitous and it seems to result from Brownian motion

[jabbr]

3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Thx - I added a little Google Fu on fundamental vs ubiquitous and it seems to result from Brownian motion

 

Thermal noise is generally white: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson–Nyquist_noise. There is also "shot" noise. and flicker (1/f) noise. I think flicker has been correlated to "fractional" Brownian so its a bit complicated.