Audiophile Neuroscience Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 20 minutes ago, March Audio said: One of the things I am doing is having independent technical testing performed and published with my products. is that Amir of ASR doing the testing? Sound Minds Mind Sound Link to comment
opus101 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 24 minutes ago, sandyk said: What a waste of space this discussion is. Zealots like yourself refuse to accept that the better the measurements are in every respect , that the better chance the amplifier has of being completely transparent. I have nothing further to say to you. When the discussion becomes a waste of space its best to leave it immediately. Staying in, even to claim its a waste of space merely shows your words to be inconsistent with your actions. Me a 'zealot' like you describe? Where did you pull that characterization from? I'd like to see what in my writings you've misunderstood, perhaps I can edit for clarification. wgscott 1 Link to comment
March Audio Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said: is that Amir of ASR doing the testing? Due to (unfounded) claims of bias, he is not going to be reviewing my products. Link to comment
opus101 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said: is that Amir of ASR doing the testing? 'Amir' and 'independent' in the same sentence without an accompanying 'not' ? 😎 Audiophile Neuroscience 1 Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, March Audio said: As discussed earlier, you cannot directly hear 55kHz. So, the only way you might become aware of signals in that region is if they are having some kind of IM thats creating in band spuria. Yet once again you are claiming that the high res formats including DSD are a waste of time . That is not the experience of a large number of C.A. members and huge numbers of people worldwide. Just because you personally are unable to hear the benefit of the high resolution formats including DSD, doesn't mean that others can't. These discussions are a waste of time and will never be resolved without appropriate DBT sessions. Ralf11 and Shadders 1 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
March Audio Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 32 minutes ago, sandyk said: Some of the high quality Linear amplifiers don't even need negative feedback, and many don't use opamps in the input stage either.. What a waste of space this discussion is. Zealots like yourself refuse to accept that the better the measurements are in every respect , that the better chance the amplifier has of being completely transparent. I have nothing further to say to you. Im a bit confused by your edit, I think that has been exactly what has been demonstrated. Low distortion, low noise and low output Z contrary to what you were saying was the case. Link to comment
Popular Post wgscott Posted January 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2019 36 minutes ago, sandyk said: I have nothing further to say to you. Some promises are never kept. Ralf11, opus101 and mansr 2 1 Link to comment
March Audio Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, sandyk said: Yet once again you are claiming that the high res formats including DSD are a waste of time . That is not the experience of a large number of C.A. members and huge numbers of people worldwide. Just because you personally are unable to hear the benefit of the high resolution formats including DSD, doesn't mean that others can't. These discussions are a waste of time and will never be resolved without appropriate DBT sessions. If you insist on putting it that way then yes. However I think a distinction needs to be made that I am referring to excessive bandwidth and not any particular recording format. If there is no significant musical content at 50+kHz (measurements prove anything there might well be 80dB down) and your speaker is incapable of reproducing it then please explain how it works. Oh and dont forget many supposedly high res recordings have nothing above 30 kHz or so due to the mics, electronics and original recording format. There are also tests out there that show people cant hear the difference. Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, March Audio said: Im a bit confused by your edit, I think that has been exactly what has been demonstrated. Low distortion, low noise and low output Z contrary to what you were saying was the case. Your idea of low distortion and low noise is very different to mine. There was an earlier thread similar to this one where measurement of the top of the range Class D amplifiers were compared with those of top quality Linear amplifiers. Perhaps you should seek out that original thread ? Shadders 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post tmtomh Posted January 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, sandyk said: Yet once again you are claiming that the high res formats including DSD are a waste of time . That is not the experience of a large number of C.A. members and huge numbers of people worldwide. Just because you personally are unable to hear the benefit of the high resolution formats including DSD, doesn't mean that others can't. You are seriously misrepresenting both @March Audio's point, and the experience of large numbers of CA members. I, like many CA members, listen to and enjoy SACDs. And I - also like many CA members, I would guess - am not ready to dismiss 48kHz sample-rate files out of hand compared to Redbook 44.1kHz, because the former affords a larger buffer for filtering, reducing or eliminating linearity vs phase trade-offs in the audible range. But that doesn't mean that I, or many other CA members, think that we can hear above 20kHz (or 15-18kHz for most of us). Nor does it mean we believe that ultrasonics impact what music in the audible range sounds like (unless the ultrasonics are unfiltered and cause our audio equipment to manifest distortion in the audible range as a result). So by equating "we cannot directly hear 55kHz" with "DSD is a waste of time," you are illustrating your own ignorance and nothing more. kumakuma and March Audio 1 1 Link to comment
March Audio Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 23 minutes ago, sandyk said: Your idea of low distortion and low noise is very different to mine. There was an earlier thread similar to this one where measurement of the top of the range Class D amplifiers were compared with those of top quality Linear amplifiers. Perhaps you should seek out that original thread ? Whats wrong with 0.0005% THD + Noise? Note plus noise, not just thd. Thats 105dB SINAD. The top tier DACs are around 109dB SINAD, so for a power amp I dont see any issue. As I have said, Im sure you can find rubbish class D amps as well as rubbish class A A/B amps. That doesnt mean you write off all class D amps. wgscott 1 Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, March Audio said: If you insist on putting it that way then yes. Then I would respectfully suggest that you use a decent pair of headphones with a usable response to 40kHZ and a decent Linear headphone amplifier and visit the Format Comparison page at Soundkeeper Recordings. This applies to tmtmoh as well. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
March Audio Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Oh I have indeed done this sort of thing with foobar ABX and couldnt reliably tell any difference between 24/96 and 24/48. For your reference, I use Oppo PM1, PM3, Sen HD6XX (650), Hifiman HE4xx and Westone (cant remember ) IEMs. Some of the (linear) headphone amp performance is shown below. Hopefully you will consider that low enough distortion Hope that helps. wgscott 1 Link to comment
GeneZ Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 2 hours ago, fas42 said: No, the whole thing - an op amp that is capable of driving a speaker, directly - this was the unit, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LM3875. This means that the amplifier core circuit is literally only a few square inches in size - it's all the ancillary bits that give it some physical 'presence' . Many, many cheaper conventional amplifiers used this sort of part, disguised under the metalwork. Even premium Marshall guitar amps use this technique for doing the grunt work ... I used to look at those chip amps. Virtue Audio caught my attention. http://store.virtueaudio.com/product-p/vrtu-ia-ap11-1.htm Never made the move. Discovered a NuForce STA-100 at that time https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/nuforce-home-series-quality-compact-audio-gear-page-3 and never looked back. It all depends upon in what dimension of life one finds themselves living in. For, one man's music is another man's noise. Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, March Audio said: Oh I have indeed done this sort of thing with foobar ABX and couldnt reliably tell any difference between 24/96 and 24/48. Foobah 2k ABX ? You have to be joking ! Did you try 16/44.1 vs. 24/96 or 24/192 ? Use a decent software player such as HQPlayer, XXHE or jRiver with somebody else controlling the switching then. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
March Audio Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, sandyk said: Foobah 2k ABX ? You have to be joking ! Did you try 16/44.1 vs. 24/96 or 24/192 ? Use a decent software player such as HQPlayer, XXHE or jRiver with somebody else controlling the switching then. When you actually demonstrate that foobars playback is faulty then I might take your post seriously. BTW I also use JRiver and Roon. The question was about ultrasonic bandwidth not bit depth. 44 to 96 v 48 to 96 is not relevant in that context. Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, March Audio said: When you actually demonstrate that foobars playback is faulty then I might take your post seriously. It's not faulty. Foobar is NOT a transparent software player like those I mentioned. Just like there are far more resolving S/W players for Macs than iTunes. If you can't hear the difference between Foobar and correctly set up JRiver when using ASIO then you have a real problem! Anyway, I have better things to do at this point in time than continue with this pointless discussion.. Ralf11, wgscott and March Audio 1 2 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
March Audio Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Just now, sandyk said: It's not faulty. Foobar is NOT a transparent software player like those I mentioned. Just like there are far more resolving S/W players for Macs than iTunes. Evidence please. Link to comment
Popular Post esldude Posted January 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2019 Just now, March Audio said: Evidence please. If he copies the evidence, this action alters it and the evidence is gone. J mansr, wgscott, Ralf11 and 1 other 2 2 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 better define "resolving" too... March Audio 1 Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 18 minutes ago, GeneZ said: Never made the move. Discovered a NuForce STA-100 at that time https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/nuforce-home-series-quality-compact-audio-gear-page-3 and never looked back. If the unit works for you, then go with it! I've got results with a variety of approaches; each will have natural advantages, and disadvantages - the trick is to know how to get around those 'standard' weaknesses, . Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Foobar ABX resamples the test tracks, and sticks working copies into a tmp directory - you're not actually hearing what you're supposedly comparing ... fails at the first hurdle ... Link to comment
March Audio Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, fas42 said: Foobar ABX resamples the test tracks, and sticks working copies into a tmp directory - you're not actually hearing what you're supposedly comparing ... fails at the first hurdle ... Thanks, thats good info which I will check out, however I have performed the same comparisons, with same results using Jriver and Roon, as pointed out above Link to comment
esldude Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 33 minutes ago, fas42 said: Foobar ABX resamples the test tracks, and sticks working copies into a tmp directory - you're not actually hearing what you're supposedly comparing ... fails at the first hurdle ... Where did you get this information, and are the working copies bit perfect copies or not? I can determine this if need be, but it gets tiring to be told this kind of BS and find out it wasn't true in the first place. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 32 minutes ago, fas42 said: Foobar ABX resamples the test tracks, and sticks working copies into a tmp directory - you're not actually hearing what you're supposedly comparing ... fails at the first hurdle ... I have a vague recollection of this being mentioned in the past and that the conclusion was reached that this was how it used to work, prior to the 2014 update. Have you confirmed this with the most recent version of the software? Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
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