ISO REGEN launch thread! (product web page up; photos, etc.)

[No Disc]

So you are using the USPCB downstream of the ISO Regen?

[Frojo]

I am a chord Hugo user, the input is a mini usb not a micro usb. The adapter required to connect the USPCB from iso  directly to Dac therefore should be usb B female to usb Mini male

[kennyb123]

29 minutes ago, Frojo said:

I am a chord Hugo user, the input is a mini usb not a micro usb. The adapter required to connect the USPCB from iso  directly to Dac therefore should be usb B female to usb Mini male

 

Chord's web page says that the Hugo has s "Micro USB input":

 

https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/hugo/

[Frojo]

My abject apologies- i have just unplugged my 'short curious' and confirmed it is a micro not a mini.

I had just read the What Hi Fi review of the Hugo 2 which mistakenly refers to the mini connecter, which is what prompted me to comment....

[jamesg11]

3 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

I've been having an occasionally-occurring issue since adding the ISO REGEN.  Occasionally - like maybe once a week - Roon won't be responsive and I'll find a "No Audio Devices" message.   After restarting the microRendu, the DAC Diagnostics page will show no DAC found, so I'll have to cycle power on the ISO REGEN. That gets me back to playing music.

 

Last week I got my first hint as to the cause.  Upon leaving the bathroom adjacent to my listening room, I powered off the light and fan switches in that room.  Music immediately stopped playing and Roon could find no audio devices.  It happened again today.  I got the music started again and tried to reproduce the problem.  As I turned off the fan, music stopped playing again.  Odd.

 

This never occurred before adding the ISO REGEN, so I imagine the isolation it provides may make my configuration more sensitive to the energy emitted when turning off that fan.  It must be airborne as my system is on its own dedicated circuit.  The ISO REGEN is powered by an LPS-1 and the microRendu is powered off the JS-2.

 

No biggie as I use of that fan is optional.  I'm just reporting in case others encounter it.  

Isolation transformer required? ...!

[kennyb123]

17 minutes ago, jamesg11 said:

Isolation transformer required? ...!

 

How would that help in my case where the fan switch triggering this is already on a different AC circuit?

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

Last week I got my first hint as to the cause.  Upon leaving the bathroom adjacent to my listening room, I powered off the light and fan switches in that room.  Music immediately stopped playing and Roon could find no audio devices.  It happened again today.  I got the music started again and tried to reproduce the problem.  As I turned off the fan, music stopped playing again.  Odd.

 

This never occurred before adding the ISO REGEN, so I imagine the isolation it provides may make my configuration more sensitive to the energy emitted when turning off that fan.  It must be airborne as my system is on its own dedicated circuit.  The ISO REGEN is powered by an LPS-1 and the microRendu is powered off the JS-2.

 

No biggie as I use of that fan is optional.  I'm just reporting in case others encounter it.  

 

That will stop if you defeat the isolation with the red switch.  It is somehow related to system grounds, and the more "floated" your system is, the more likely you are to encounter this.  Some DACs are very sensitive at their USB inputs and will disconnect with the slightest disturbance.  I can make that happen to if I build up a good charge on my body (certain shoes on carpet) and then touch the ISO REGEN case while it playing.  

 

The output grounds of your JS-2 are "floated" (though of course the chassis and transformer are grounded to the AC mains for safety), so both the input side of your ISO REGEN (fed by the completely floated Ethernet microRendu powered by JS-2) and the output side of the ISO REGEN (powered by LPS-1) lack any system ground connection--other than whatever connection your DAC and beyond has.

 

One experiment you could try would be to ground one of the JS-2 outputs to its chassis.  You will notice that the machined DC jack openings of the JS-2 chassis are not anodized--and that the shell of the DC jacks don't actually touch the inside of the back panel.  You could, using clips or wires try to ground the DC output ground--either the outside of an attached barrel plug, or the shell of a JS-2 DC jack.--to any AC mains ground.  That can be the JS-2 chassis (it's cover screws go to non-anodized metal that is grounded) or just to a wall or power strip ground.

 

The above would give the microRendu a real ground that would be passed along--via the USB connection--to the upstream side of the ISO REGEN.  That will give any charges built up--on the upstream side of the isolator--a path to "drain" to.

 

Discovery of that issue--in my normally extremely floated system--is what lead to the inclusion of the red isolation defeat switch. 

[kennyb123]

18 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

That will stop if you defeat the isolation with the red switch.  It is somehow related to system grounds, and the more "floated" your system is, the more likely you are to encounter this.  Some DACs are very sensitive at their USB inputs and will disconnect with the slightest disturbance.  I can make that happen to if I build up a good charge on my body (certain shoes on carpet) and then touch the ISO REGEN case while it playing.  

 

Thanks for the quick reply Alex.  I will try the experiment you suggested and report back.

[R1200CL]

8 hours ago, No Disc said:

 

No, if going from the ISO Regen, then need a male Micro USB to fit the Chord DAC. 

 

Then I suppose no USPCB is in use ?

[kennyb123]

38 minutes ago, Superdad said:

One experiment you could try would be to ground one of the JS-2 outputs to its chassis.  You will notice that the machined DC jack openings of the JS-2 chassis are not anodized--and that the shell of the DC jacks don't actually touch the inside of the back panel.  You could, using clips or wires try to ground the DC output ground--either the outside of an attached barrel plug, or the shell of a JS-2 DC jack.--to any AC mains ground.  That can be the JS-2 chassis (it's cover screws go to non-anodized metal that is grounded) or just to a wall or power strip ground.

 

The above would give the microRendu a real ground that would be passed along--via the USB connection--to the upstream side of the ISO REGEN.  That will give any charges built up--on the upstream side of the isolator--a path to "drain" to.

 

Alex - would you expect a degradation of sound quality from grounding as you suggest?  

 

Sound quality did take a hit when I defeated isolation using the switch on my ISO REGEN.  I'm guessing as long as I don't defeat isolation, grounding the microRendu as you suggest won't impair sound quality, but just want to confirm.

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 

Alex - would you expect a degradation of sound quality from grounding as you suggest? 

 

It should not.

 

10 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

Sound quality did take a hit when I defeated isolation using the switch on my ISO REGEN.  I'm guessing as long as I don't defeat isolation, grounding the microRendu as you suggest won't impair sound quality, but just want to confirm.

 

That is correct.  As long as you are keeping the GI in place between the microRendu and your DAC with the ISO REGEN.

[beautiful music]

I'm curious to know if there is a big difference between ISOREGEN alone and ISOREGEN with microRendu 

[ted_b]

1 minute ago, sadekkhalifa said:

I'm curious to know if there is a big difference between ISOREGEN alone and ISOREGEN with microRendu 

Uh-oh, it's popcorn time again because ted_b is asking the same question he asked last month:

If you are pulling the microRendu then what is replacing it as your source of (fill in blank....DLNA renderer, NAA, Roon endpoint, etc etc).  You can't just remove a renderer and do nothing else.  And to that point, the changes you make to get music WITHOUT the microRendu (for example, going direct with USB instead of going remote with ethernet, which the microRednu needs) might have as big an impact as the ISO Regen itself (although I love the IR and would have it in the signal path regardless, of course).

[beautiful music]

2 hours ago, ted_b said:

Uh-oh, it's popcorn time again because ted_b is asking the same question he asked last month:

If you are pulling the microRendu then what is replacing it as your source of (fill in blank....DLNA renderer, NAA, Roon endpoint, etc etc).  You can't just remove a renderer and do nothing else.  And to that point, the changes you make to get music WITHOUT the microRendu (for example, going direct with USB instead of going remote with ethernet, which the microRednu needs) might have as big an impact as the ISO Regen itself (although I love the IR and would have it in the signal path regardless, of course).

I'm using jRiver in my laptop to stream music to the  DAC and i can connect microRendu to my laptop in a direct path as well so, eventually I can use ISOREGEN with or without microRendu as well. 

[jamesg11]

19 hours ago, ted_b said:

Uh-oh, it's popcorn time again because ted_b is asking the same question he asked last month:

If you are pulling the microRendu then what is replacing it as your source of (fill in blank....DLNA renderer, NAA, Roon endpoint, etc etc).  You can't just remove a renderer and do nothing else.  And to that point, the changes you make to get music WITHOUT the microRendu (for example, going direct with USB instead of going remote with ethernet, which the microRednu needs) might have as big an impact as the ISO Regen itself (although I love the IR and would have it in the signal path regardless, of course).

Yep, I've not used the mRendu & think I'm getting quality sonics from my macmini (uptone mods) - uspcb - isoregen/lps-1 - curious - idsd.

As good as with mR in chain? - dunno; would like to find out.

[tboooe]

20 hours ago, ted_b said:

Uh-oh, it's popcorn time again because ted_b is asking the same question he asked last month:

If you are pulling the microRendu then what is replacing it as your source of (fill in blank....DLNA renderer, NAA, Roon endpoint, etc etc).

I am still using a cheap $100 low powered pc running Server R2 acting as an NAA in my system.  Ultimately I would like to use a smaller NAA (ultrarendu, sms200 ultra, pi, clearfog, etc) so I can get rid of my usb cable and use a USBPCB instead.  However, I really cant see myself get the either of the ultra devices because I cant justify the price versus the improvement over my pc (I did audition a microrendu).

[R1200CL]

On 10.7.2017 at 6:25 PM, sadekkhalifa said:

I'm curious to know if there is a big difference between ISOREGEN alone and ISOREGEN with microRendu 

 

I' trying to do this, but so far no one has been able to tell me how Roon can see my DAC when connect directly to my SonicTransporter via USB. 

 

Nor or can I be told if HQPlayer can be used as well. 

 

(actually it's the Singxer F1, but that should not matter)

 

To use a Roon Brigde is easy, but then I'm comparing a PC vs MicroRendu both as endpoints, and the answer to what sounds best of those two is well known. 

[kennyb123]

On 7/10/2017 at 9:25 AM, sadekkhalifa said:

I'm curious to know if there is a big difference between ISOREGEN alone and ISOREGEN with microRendu 

 

I just switched to what could be said to be "ISO REGEN alone" as I sent my microRendu off to be upgraded to the 1.4 board.  The degradation was such that I find it difficult to listen to digital.  I'm now spinning vinyl.

 

I really ruined myself by listening to without any USB cables in the path.  Before mailing out the microRendu, the signal path was:

 

Mac Mini/MMK/JS-2 (bridged) > AQ Ethernet > Paul Pang switch > WW Ethernet > microRendu > USPCB > ISO REGEN > USPCB > Chord Hugo TT

 

What I'm now left with is:

 

Mac Mini/MMK/JS-2 > Audience Au24 SE USB > ISO REGEN > USPCB > Chord Hugo TT

 

This was a significant step down (though I have no doubt it would be worse without the ISO REGEN).  The USB cable, while excellent as far as cables go, was no match for the USPCB.  I think this has a bit to do with the raspy/grainy sound I hear now.

 

I very much look forward to receiving back my microRendu.

[ElviaCaprice]

7 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 

I just switched to what could be said to be "ISO REGEN alone" as I sent my microRendu off to be upgraded to the 1.4 board.  The degradation was such that I find it difficult to listen to digital.  I'm now spinning vinyl.

 

I really ruined myself by listening to without any USB cables in the path.  Before mailing out the microRendu, the signal path was:

 

Mac Mini/MMK/JS-2 (bridged) > AQ Ethernet > Paul Pang switch > WW Ethernet > microRendu > USPCB > ISO REGEN > USPCB > Chord Hugo TT

 

What I'm now left with is:

 

Mac Mini/MMK/JS-2 > Audience Au24 SE USB > ISO REGEN > USPCB > Chord Hugo TT

 

This was a significant step down (though I have no doubt it would be worse without the ISO REGEN).  The USB cable, while excellent as far as cables go, was no match for the USPCB.  I think this has a bit to do with the raspy/grainy sound I hear now.

 

I very much look forward to receiving back my microRendu.

Maybe so, but a more fair comparison would be the second USPCB replaces the Audience USB cable.  I think that would make a big difference.  It did in my USB only stream, replacing the USB cable upstream of the ISO Regen.

[kennyb123]

40 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Maybe so, but a more fair comparison would be the second USPCB replaces the Audience USB cable.  I think that would make a big difference.  It did in my USB only stream, replacing the USB cable upstream of the ISO Regen.

 

I absolutely agree.  That's why I went to lengths to mention that my USB cable was "no match for the USPCB".

 

But having said that, I think most folks won't find it so easy to avoid use of a USB cable between their computer and their DAC.  The stars need to align such that it's physically possible to pull this off.  They either need to intentionally plan for it - or have luck factor into it.  

 

It's closer to a slam dunk that one can ditch their USB cable when using the small form factor of the microRendu.  I see that as tipping the scale very much in favor of the microRendu.  

 

So maybe the buying decision comes down to first assessing whether one can connect their computer directly to their DAC using a USPCB.  If so, go for it.  If not, buy a microRendu, and you will also gain the benefit of being able to dump your USB cable.  

[ElviaCaprice]

Agree, the trick is to use a computer the size of the renderer/computer, thus one less computer, which is a good thing as long as you can power it properly.

Really it's not too difficult to wedge the ISO Regen between the PC and DAC, just takes a little engineering.

 

I'm just amazed how good it sounds, yet so simple.

[jamesg11]

 

8 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

I absolutely agree.  That's why I went to lengths to mention that my USB cable was "no match for the USPCB".

 

But having said that, I think most folks won't find it so easy to avoid use of a USB cable between their computer and their DAC.  The stars need to align such that it's physically possible to pull this off.  They either need to intentionally plan for it - or have luck factor into it.  

 

It's closer to a slam dunk that one can ditch their USB cable when using the small form factor of the microRendu.  I see that as tipping the scale very much in favor of the microRendu.  

 

So maybe the buying decision comes down to first assessing whether one can connect their computer directly to their DAC using a USPCB.  If so, go for it.  If not, buy a microRendu, and you will also gain the benefit of being able to dump your USB cable.  

I had to turn my iso regen 'vertical' for macmini>uspbc>isoregen.

Be very interesting to hear your view on how this non usb cable setup sounds.

[kennyb123]

3 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

 

I had to turn my iso regen 'vertical' for macmini>uspbc>isoregen.

Be very interesting to hear your view on how this non usb cable setup sounds.

 

After further listening to familiar music, I must say that there's no way that the USB cable deserved most of the blame for the degradation in sound quality after I mailed out my microRendu as I reported above.  There's no way the music was this smeared when I was using this same USB cable instead of the USPCB between microRendu and ISO REGEN.  It's not just smearing that's an issue - there's been a loss in tone color, warmth and overall musicality.  Digital hasn't sounded this washed out and unfocused in a long time.  The removal of the microRendu has to be responsible for the most of the degradation.

 

When the microRendu returns I will keep the USB cable feeding the ISO REGEN and report on what I hear.  I am anticipating a significant improvement.

[ElviaCaprice]

4 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 

 

When the microRendu returns I will keep the USB cable feeding the ISO REGEN and report on what I hear.  I am anticipating a significant improvement.

 

No problem, but your test is not the same with the mR and USB cable.  Far different system synthesis.

[kennyb123]

28 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

 

No problem, but your test is not the same with the mR and USB cable.  Far different system synthesis.

 

Agreed.  But I do think I've provided an answer to some driving their DAC via a Mac Mini/MMK/JS-2 > USB cable > ISO REGEN. Would a microRendu improve upon this?  At this point I'd have to say "hell yes! run out and get one now - along with a second USPCB - and your mind will be blown".