iFi Audio iGalvanic3.0 - The Holy Grail of Computer Audio

[maelob]

Well my Galvanic works great when is detected but once my IMAC/sierra os goes to sleep I loose connection of my GEEK XFI.  I opened a trouble ticket on Friday but was wondering if anybody had any ideas. I am using supplied IFI cable from iMac to galvanic and downstream I have the defender connected to a Schiit USB cable to the XFI. Ive tried the defender but upstream and downstream as well as no defender and still have the same issues of loosing connection. Tried all the switching positions and same issue. Don't know what else to try.

[One and a half]

7 hours ago, maelob said:

Well my Galvanic works great when is detected but once my IMAC/sierra os goes to sleep I loose connection of my GEEK XFI.  I opened a trouble ticket on Friday but was wondering if anybody had any ideas. I am using supplied IFI cable from iMac to galvanic and downstream I have the defender connected to a Schiit USB cable to the XFI. Ive tried the defender but upstream and downstream as well as no defender and still have the same issues of loosing connection. Tried all the switching positions and same issue. Don't know what else to try.

Stop the Mac from going to sleep? Isn't there a setting in osx somewhere to keep the USB powered on.

[maelob]

Yes finally just did went to energy settings and selected never go to sleep- and to make monitor sleep I hit control shift eject- so far no issues 

[One and a half]

Listening update

 

I believe in the less is more regime, so for fun, the ifi Micro USB 3.0 was removed from the chain in the primary listening system, so the ifi Galvanic 3.0 apart from USB cables was the only connected device. I listened all afternoon to regular tracks, and I didn't find anything that was out of order, much, the micro details were there, but required conscious effort to listen for them. Stage height for DSD of Thriller for example was about the same as well as width, very stable. No noticeable change in the pitch or the character of the sound, better not be anyway.

I'll leave the system the way it is for now for a few weeks, then maybe compare again with the Micro USB 3.0 later. 

[AMR/iFi audio]

On 25.09.2017 at 11:06 AM, One and a half said:

Listening update

 

I believe in the less is more regime, so for fun, the ifi Micro USB 3.0 was removed from the chain in the primary listening system, so the ifi Galvanic 3.0 apart from USB cables was the only connected device. I listened all afternoon to regular tracks, and I didn't find anything that was out of order, much, the micro details were there, but required conscious effort to listen for them. Stage height for DSD of Thriller for example was about the same as well as width, very stable. No noticeable change in the pitch or the character of the sound, better not be anyway.

I'll leave the system the way it is for now for a few weeks, then maybe compare again with the Micro USB 3.0 later. 

 

Thank you for your feedback. Short and sweet!

[AMR/iFi audio]

Most of you guys already know this, but this is our take on the galvanic isolation in a pill.

 

Galvanic isolation is a design technique that separates electrical circuits to eliminate stray currents. Signals can pass between galvanically isolated circuits, but stray currents, such as differences in ground potential or currents induced by AC power, RF noise etc. are blocked. In the literal interpretation galvanic isolation means that there is no connection for direct current, meaning a galvanically isolated circuit will measure theoretically infinite resistance, in practice it will be at least 10's of Gigaohm (1GOhm = 1 Million Kiloohm = 1,000,000,000 Ohm) to TeraOhm as even air conducts some electricity.

For USB audio this is a highly desirable feature, as with USB we have not just balanced signals, but also ground (even if the power is cut completely) and via this ground wire ground loops form, even if there is no audible hum. Also high frequency noise can travel along all wired in a USB cable and cause RF problems in downstream equipment, possibly not even the USB DAC itself but amplifiers following it. It is possible to address ground loops by other means. There have also been for many years first generation USB isolators offering galvanic isolation, at the cost of blocking most high resolution audio streams due to speed limitations and negatively impact sound quality due to very high level of jitter.

At least where audible hum is concerned and several of iFi's products offer "ground-loop breakers", ever since our first USB product, the iUSB Power introduced in 2012. However, only galvanic isolation can stop higher frequencies coupling between the computer source (and every streamer out there is also a computer) which is an excellent source of RF noise emissions and the audio system which is often less than excellent in separating such emissions from the signal, causing audible noise or if not directly audible noise, then subjective degradation of sound quality. So it has been a long time goal at iFi (since before 2012) to deliver full High-Rez audio compatible and low jitter galvanic isolation for USB.

 

Hopefully you'll find it usefull.

[One and a half]

58 minutes ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

Most of you guys already know this, but this is our take on the galvanic isolation in a pill.

 

Galvanic isolation is a design technique that separates electrical circuits to eliminate stray currents. Signals can pass between galvanically isolated circuits, but stray currents, such as differences in ground potential or currents induced by AC power, RF noise etc. are blocked. In the literal interpretation galvanic isolation means that there is no connection for direct current, meaning a galvanically isolated circuit will measure theoretically infinite resistance, in practice it will be at least 10's of Gigaohm (1GOhm = 1 Million Kiloohm = 1,000,000,000 Ohm) to TeraOhm as even air conducts some electricity.

For USB audio this is a highly desirable feature, as with USB we have not just balanced signals, but also ground (even if the power is cut completely) and via this ground wire ground loops form, even if there is no audible hum. Also high frequency noise can travel along all wired in a USB cable and cause RF problems in downstream equipment, possibly not even the USB DAC itself but amplifiers following it. It is possible to address ground loops by other means. There have also been for many years first generation USB isolators offering galvanic isolation, at the cost of blocking most high resolution audio streams due to speed limitations and negatively impact sound quality due to very high level of jitter.

At least where audible hum is concerned and several of iFi's products offer "ground-loop breakers", ever since our first USB product, the iUSB Power introduced in 2012. However, only galvanic isolation can stop higher frequencies coupling between the computer source (and every streamer out there is also a computer) which is an excellent source of RF noise emissions and the audio system which is often less than excellent in separating such emissions from the signal, causing audible noise or if not directly audible noise, then subjective degradation of sound quality. So it has been a long time goal at iFi (since before 2012) to deliver full High-Rez audio compatible and low jitter galvanic isolation for USB.

 

Hopefully you'll find it usefull.

Thank you, very interesting! So the suppression of common mode noise would be 140db or better?

 

Those familiar with the Topaz transformer can relate to this spec, that's why I have used this number.

[One and a half]

iFI Micro USB 3.0 with Galvanic 3.0 combo

 

The Micro USB 3.0 was re-installed in front of the Galvanic 3.0 as originally installed. The difference wasn't night and day, the micro details were easier to distinguish now, that slight decay on cymbals was now longer and depending on the recording, the reverb was 'real' and engaging. Was enjoyable to listen to, piano especially, highly recommend Benny Andersson Piano.  My guess is the noise floor dropped to allow the details to be heard more effectively.

 

This would also mean the effect of the Micro USB 3.0 in combo with iPower2, drops the noise floor. The iPower2 'supposed' to be a bad power supply, well, is it? Now consider, the 120V AC source for the iPower2 is shared with a workstation, routers, switches, all manner of other IT rubbish loads warts and all without any conditioning equipment. If this was a cleaner AC supply with shielded DC cables, I might gain a few points of S/N, and/or add a SOTM USB card and clock, something under consideration.

[PPk]

7 hours ago, One and a half said:

iFI Micro USB 3.0 with Galvanic 3.0 combo

 

The Micro USB 3.0 was re-installed in front of the Galvanic 3.0 as originally installed. The difference wasn't night and day, the micro details were easier to distinguish now, that slight decay on cymbals was now longer and depending on the recording, the reverb was 'real' and engaging. Was enjoyable to listen to, piano especially, highly recommend Benny Andersson Piano.  My guess is the noise floor dropped to allow the details to be heard more effectively.

 

This would also mean the effect of the Micro USB 3.0 in combo with iPower2, drops the noise floor. The iPower2 'supposed' to be a bad power supply, well, is it? Now consider, the 120V AC source for the iPower2 is shared with a workstation, routers, switches, all manner of other IT rubbish loads warts and all without any conditioning equipment. If this was a cleaner AC supply with shielded DC cables, I might gain a few points of S/N, and/or add a SOTM USB card and clock, something under consideration.

how about the reverse where igalvanic is before the micro usb3 ? how does it sound in this arrangement? 

[One and a half]

3 minutes ago, PPk said:

how about the reverse where igalvanic is before the micro usb3 ? how does it sound in this arrangement? 

 

Galvanic separation is the last item before the DAC, any last chance of leakage currents is then eliminated. It is pointless of having galvanic isolation, then adding anything which could/does add leakage current after the fact. No I haven't tried this and in almost certainty, respectfully will not.

[thuandb]

You both may have a good point here.  Case scenario:  I've been running iG3.0 in front of Nano iUSB3.0 and liked the increase in SQ.  Today I reversed the order, placing the iUSB in front of iG3.0, and a thin layer of grain, which I didn't know existed, vanished.  The music, especially vocals and mute trumpet, became sweeter.  Bass is less prominent.  For connections I'm using Uptone USB adapter and Curious links.

[AMR/iFi audio]

1 hour ago, thuandb said:

You both may have a good point here.  Case scenario:  I've been running iG3.0 in front of Nano iUSB3.0 and liked the increase in SQ.  Today I reversed the order, placing the iUSB in front of iG3.0, and a thin layer of grain, which I didn't know existed, vanished.  The music, especially vocals and mute trumpet, became sweeter.  Bass is less prominent.  For connections I'm using Uptone USB adapter and Curious links.

 

Our honest advice: please roll with what you think sounds best. In the end it's all about your ears. 

[One and a half]

Further listening and comparison tests between SACD player and computer file playback head to head.

 

Test CD : Alison Krauss - Windy City vs ripped to uncompressed FLAC. Not many orchestrations, very easy to hear individual instruments and placement. A-B by switching the pre-amp's input, both XLR.

 

The system changes for the test:

 

 - Removal of the iDefender [It might work in some systems, it's just something else in the chain, that doesn't make a huge difference, YMMV]

 - Replaced the SAEC SUS480 0.3m USB 2 cable between the output of the iGalvanic 3.0 and the Icron LEX with Nordost Blue Heaven 1m

 - Add in Grace Design m920 as an attenuator to reduce the gain from the MPD-3 DAC to ensure the volume was the same as the CD Player's output.

 

These simple steps are such that the computer file playback is closer again to the SACD player, but no cigar. The SACD player still has the edge over air around vocals and instruments, in addition to a lower noise floor. If the DAC had a built in volume control, the SQ would be closer, although the m920 DAC would provide some character of its own, but the analog inputs and outputs are very clean and can handle professional levels, so will treat this as neutral for now. At the conclusion of the test, the m920 will be disconnected.

 

Further changes are to replace the two blue standard USB 3 cables that were delivered with the iGalvanic 3.0 and the iMicro 3.0 USB. Currently will wait for the release of Nordost Blue Heaven USB 3.0 cables, due in December 2017. For their construction, the standard cables aren't that a crappy job, quite good actually. May not deliver that air and precision but I would be prepared to live with that system for some time to come. So cabling matters after all, I'll stick with the Nordost, the character is a known entity, the plugs are well made and won't be so easy to fall out like the Curious.

 

USB chain for now:

Computer HP-Z800 USB 3.0 port (sep generic card)-> ifi 300mm USB3.0 blue cable -> ifi Micro USB 3.0 with Acoustic Revive RUT-1 -> ifi 300mm USB3.0 blue cable -> ifi iGalvanic 3.0 ->  Nordost Blue Heaven USB 2.0 1m -> Icron LEX -> 25m CAT5e -> Icron REX -> Acoustic Revive USB-1.0SPS (dual head) -> Playback Designs MPD-3 DAC

 

 

 

[asdf1000]

13 hours ago, One and a half said:

USB chain for now:

Computer HP-Z800 USB 3.0 port (sep generic card)-> ifi 300mm USB3.0 blue cable -> ifi Micro USB 3.0 with Acoustic Revive RUT-1 -> ifi 300mm USB3.0 blue cable -> ifi iGalvanic 3.0 ->  Nordost Blue Heaven USB 2.0 1m -> Icron LEX -> 25m CAT5e -> Icron REX -> Acoustic Revive USB-1.0SPS (dual head) -> Playback Designs MPD-3 DAC

 

 

 

 

Great stuff! Just wondering if you'd thought about trying John S's SMPS grounding method with your Icron's PSU's, to shunt leakage currents to earth? Since John found leakage currents can sail right through the ethernet transformers. The iFi Groundhog has a USB adpater that could plug into the Incron REX, so that could be an option.

 

Or are your ICRON's powered by linear PSU's? in which case nothing else needs to be tried!

 

Cheers!

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

 

Great stuff! Just wondering if you'd thought about trying John S's SMPS grounding method with your Icron's PSU's, to shunt leakage currents to earth? Since John found leakage currents can sail right through the ethernet transformers. The iFi Groundhog has a USB adpater that could plug into the Incron REX, so that could be an option.

 

Or are your ICRON's powered by linear PSU's? in which case nothing else needs to be tried!

 

Cheers!

 

After much deliberation and finding a home for a linear supply, there's an Acopian model B24G350M Plus extras arriving next week for the Icron. At the moment, the Icron uses a Siemens 24V dc 3A SMPS with 'low' leakage currents on the primary. The - is not grounded. As to when it's fitted is another story. I can try grounding the secondary on the Acopian, see what happens.

 

I need to be careful of the ground connections on the Icron, since it's meant to provide a 1:1 connection from the host PC to the USB device. If I start grounding the 0V, it may impact of the Rex. In this case the 0V is derived from the ifi Galvanic, which has soft ground connections on the 3 way switch which can provide necessary grounds. For the primary system, this is set in the centre for maximum isolation.

[asdf1000]

23 minutes ago, One and a half said:

I need to be careful

 

As expected, your’e all over it!

 

Keep us updated !

 

[One and a half]

5 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

As expected, your’e all over it!

 

Keep us updated !

 

Will do!

[asdf1000]

32 minutes ago, One and a half said:

If I start grounding the 0V, it may impact of the Rex. I

 

Just for my learning purposes only, what can be the potential issue which could impact the Rex. Dropouts ? Or damage?

 

[One and a half]

Here's a challenge for the iGalvanic 3.0 and the KORG DS-DAC-10 in the secondary system to work together and should I start a ticket?

 

Using Jriver with buffer at maximum, memory play off, Korg's ASIO buffers wound out to maximum, the output is choppy, no matter what sample rate of track. DSD/PCM either one is choppy. Tried the ground switch in all 3 positions and re-discovered the DAC OK according to Control Panel and Jriver. Korg Driver is 1.05.

 

Connection : Computer -> Micro USB 3.0 2nd output -> Blue USB 3.0 cable supplied -> ifi Galvanic 3.0 -> USB 2.0 Audio Analysis Cable 2m -> Korg DAC.

 

Without the ifi Galvanic 3.0 (straight connection from the iMicro 3.0), & replace ifi Galvanic 3.0 with Intona standard, sound is not choppy, works fine. Fidelity wise have not tested.

 

 

[One and a half]

5 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Just for my learning purposes only, what can be the potential issue which could impact the Rex. Dropouts ? Or damage?

 

All the above

[AMR/iFi audio]

On 15.10.2017 at 4:29 AM, One and a half said:

Here's a challenge for the iGalvanic 3.0 and the KORG DS-DAC-10 in the secondary system to work together and should I start a ticket?

 

Using Jriver with buffer at maximum, memory play off, Korg's ASIO buffers wound out to maximum, the output is choppy, no matter what sample rate of track. DSD/PCM either one is choppy. Tried the ground switch in all 3 positions and re-discovered the DAC OK according to Control Panel and Jriver. Korg Driver is 1.05.

 

Connection : Computer -> Micro USB 3.0 2nd output -> Blue USB 3.0 cable supplied -> ifi Galvanic 3.0 -> USB 2.0 Audio Analysis Cable 2m -> Korg DAC.

 

Without the ifi Galvanic 3.0 (straight connection from the iMicro 3.0), & replace ifi Galvanic 3.0 with Intona standard, sound is not choppy, works fine. Fidelity wise have not tested.

 

 

 

Please use our Support Ticket System platform, to be found here: support.ifi-audio.com

 

Please include detailed system configuration and an explanation what does "choppy sound" mean.

 

And please try using a USB2.0 cable between iUSB3.0 micro and iGalvanic3.0.

 

It seems that this might be connected to a certain Windows 10 versions, the OS environment might cause problems because the USB3.0 connection is not correctly detected. 

[rickca]

32 minutes ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

It seems that this might be connected to a certain Windows 10 versions, the OS environment might cause problems because the USB3.0 connection is not correctly detected. 

@One and a half try using all USB2 cables.  I had two problems.  First, the blue USB3 cable that came with my iGalvanic was defective.  Although it worked with a USB3 downstream device (USB3 ethernet adapter or USB3 flash drive), it wouldn't detect a downstream micro iDSD until iFi sent me a replacement blue USB3 cable.

 

I had a ticket open with iFi support documenting issues with using mixed USB3/USB2 cables (USB3 upstream and USB2 downstream) with the iGalvanic.  It was never resolved.  iFi claimed they could not replicate the problem.  If I used all USB2 cables, the problem went away.

 

My experience with iFi technical support was not good and ultimately I decided to return the iGalvanic to my retailer for a refund because I lost confidence in both the device and the company.  

 

All my other USB3 devices work just fine.  When iFi started suggesting that my motherboard USB3 ports were bad, I threw in the towel.

[One and a half]

Re the Korg. I will try all USB2.0 see what happens. Choppy = dropouts. IOW the output resembles choppy seas as opposed to calm sea.

[simonklp]

On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 5:10 AM, rickca said:

@One and a half try using all USB2 cables.  I had two problems.  First, the blue USB3 cable that came with my iGalvanic was defective.  Although it worked with a USB3 downstream device (USB3 ethernet adapter or USB3 flash drive), it wouldn't detect a downstream micro iDSD until iFi sent me a replacement blue USB3 cable.

 

I had a ticket open with iFi support documenting issues with using mixed USB3/USB2 cables (USB3 upstream and USB2 downstream) with the iGalvanic.  It was never resolved.  iFi claimed they could not replicate the problem.  If I used all USB2 cables, the problem went away.

 

My experience with iFi technical support was not good and ultimately I decided to return the iGalvanic to my retailer for a refund because I lost confidence in both the device and the company.  

 

All my other USB3 devices work just fine.  When iFi started suggesting that my motherboard USB3 ports were bad, I threw in the towel.

To be fair, my experience with iFi technical support was good. They have been nice in answering my questions, and provided nice service support to me.

[lmitche]

Really, I have an open ticket with IFI for over two months now, no follow-up and gross indifference from the customer service rep.

 

IFI customer service is appalling. It seems they hold their customers in high disdain.