iFi Audio iGalvanic3.0 - The Holy Grail of Computer Audio

[rickca]

On 8/30/2017 at 8:53 AM, thuandb said:

Did you use the supplied USB 3.0 cable?  If so, try your own USB 2.0 cable.  My guess is, the USB 3.0 bus should be consistent all the way from computer to DAC, otherwise it won't work (connect fails).

Well, in my case you were right.  Thank you!  

 

I'm not sure your theory is correct about needing to use a USB3 cable on both legs (between computer and iGalvanic, and between iGalvanic and DAC).  If so, iFi better tell people that because they are supplying a USB3 cable to use between the computer and iGalvanic, but most people are using a USB2 cable between the iGalvanic and DAC.

 

It may be that the iFi supplied USB3 cable is defective.  Yet using that USB3 cable I was able to read a flash drive plugged into the iGalvanic, so maybe your theory is correct.

 

@AMR/iFi audio please comment.

[AMR/iFi audio]

2 hours ago, rickca said:

@AMR/iFi audio I have found the problem!

The blue USB3 cable that came with the iGalvanic3.0 is defective.  I replaced it with a garden variety USB2 cable, plugged it into a USB3 port on the computer, and the micro iDSD is detected.  I am using the same USB3 port on the computer, and the same USB2 cable between the iGalvanic3.0 and the micro iDSD as before.

 

So now the question is ... when I used your blue USB3 cable between the computer USB3 port and the iGalvanic3.0, I was able to read a USB3 flash drive plugged into the iGalvanic3.0.  But with this same blue USB3 cable, I could not detect my micro iDSD.  That doesn't make sense, does it?  If the blue USB3 cable is defective, I should not have been able to see the flash drive.

 

I will update my problem ticket.  I have received no response on it yet other than just the acknowledgement that I opened a ticket.

How do I get iFi to send me a replacement blue USB3 cable?

 

I thought using a USB3 cable between the computer USB3 port and the iGalvanic3.0 was a requirement, especially with something like the micro iDSD which draws a lot of current when used in bus powered mode (rather than running off the battery).  Can you please explain?

So I guess iFi does QA on the iGalvanic3.0 but not so much on the USB3 cable.

 

Thanks for your input. Please shoot us a PM with your address and we'll send you a new cable. We need to know your country to know what dealer to involve. 

 

As for iGalvanic3.0 connected to a PC via our USB3.0 cable (and nothing else) being visible on your OS, but not micro iDSD, we've already asked our R&D team for some insight about this. Once we have a reply we'll post it here, which shouldn't take too long.

[thuandb]

I had an iPurifier2 in the audio chain, and I think it's the culprit for connection failure if blue USB 3.0 cable was used.  Removing it, and music plays dandy thru iG3, iUSB3.0 on blue USB 3.0 cables between computer and iG3.0 and between iG3.0 and iUSB3.0.

 

Now, if AMR/ifi audio makes short (20cm) Audiophile USB 3.0 cables, I'm sure they will sell a whole lot.  Too bad WireWorld stopped making short USB 3.0 cables.

[AMR/iFi audio]

Folks, we have some news to share with you!

 

We recently released 1000 iGalvanic3.0 units into the wild via our dealers and Amazon.com.

 

 

If you have purchased a unit with serial numbers ending in 111, 222, 333, 444, 555, 666, 777, 888 or 999, drop us a line via FB and we will enter you in a prize draw for an exclusive iFi audio prize!

 

We know some of them have been purchased but not all! Stay tuned!

[simonklp]

On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, AMR/iFi audio said:

Guys, we pay attention to what you write here. Here is a short list of things to try:

 

1. Please make the connection between iG3 and computer last
2. Please double-check when the iGalvanic3.0 is connected all alone,  is it recognized on the PC (device manager). 
3. Please check if after connecting the DAC it shows up as "unidentified device" in device manager. This is often a permission issue that stops installation of new hardware.

 

Thank you for your advice.

 

I had spent quite some time to trial and error on Friday night and Saturday to troubleshoot the problem. I had found out that the iGalvanic3.0 can work properly on ordinary USB2.0 and USB3.0 ports on my Audio PC except that it could not work on the JCAT USB FEMTO Card. So, obviously, it's a compatibility problem between iGalvanic3.0 and the JCAT Card. I had further noticed that the LED on  the iGalvanic3.0 representing USB connection was only faintly lighted up, or very dim. I then realized that there was a problem for the iGalvanic to recognize the USB connection with the JCAT Card. The DAC Driver was also not shown in the Device Manager list. At the beginning, I thought there was a problem of USB Driver of the JCAT Card, and I had downloaded the driver of JCAT and installed the driver. I thought I missed to install the driver. But it would then be strange while the Intona works without problem.

 

I tried to install the JCAT USB driver many times. But the iGalvanic still didn't recognize the USB connection by showing a very dim LED light on it. After trying quite some time, I found on the web that the driver is, in fact, no longer necessary for Windows 10. Actually, I use WS 2016 Core. But I believe that the Windows built-in USB driver should be the same for both Win 10 and WS 2016.

 

Finally, in the manual of the JCAT USB Card, I had found a clue that might account for the problem. The clue was that there are jumpers on the JCAT Card for connection of the external power supply to its internal voltage regulator in order to further filter out any noise coming from the power supply, and there is a statement under this jumper saying that "Max 0.9A". I thought that it might be because of this limitation in current that had caused the problem. I then connected the jumper to another position to by-pass this voltage regulator. Bingo! The LED for the USB connection on the iGalvanic was brightly lighted up. And the iGalvanic could work now.

 

But there is still a issue that it cannot work in the optimal ground/earth switch position. There's audio drop-out I have to use the other two positions. Could you please advise which position will be better?

[simonklp]

42 minutes ago, simonklp said:

 

Thank you for your advice.

 

I had spent quite some time to trial and error on Friday night and Saturday to troubleshoot the problem. I had found out that the iGalvanic3.0 can work properly on ordinary USB2.0 and USB3.0 ports on my Audio PC except that it could not work on the JCAT USB FEMTO Card. So, obviously, it's a compatibility problem between iGalvanic3.0 and the JCAT Card. I had further noticed that the LED on  the iGalvanic3.0 representing USB connection was only faintly lighted up, or very dim. I then realized that there was a problem for the iGalvanic to recognize the USB connection with the JCAT Card. The DAC Driver was also not shown in the Device Manager list. At the beginning, I thought there was a problem of USB Driver of the JCAT Card, and I had downloaded the driver of JCAT and installed the driver. I thought I missed to install the driver. But it would then be strange while the Intona works without problem.

 

I tried to install the JCAT USB driver many times. But the iGalvanic still didn't recognize the USB connection by showing a very dim LED light on it. After trying quite some time, I found on the web that the driver is, in fact, no longer necessary for Windows 10. Actually, I use WS 2016 Core. But I believe that the Windows built-in USB driver should be the same for both Win 10 and WS 2016.

 

Finally, in the manual of the JCAT USB Card, I had found a clue that might account for the problem. The clue was that there are jumpers on the JCAT Card for connection of the external power supply to its internal voltage regulator in order to further filter out any noise coming from the power supply, and there is a statement under this jumper saying that "Max 0.9A". I thought that it might be because of this limitation in current that had caused the problem. I then connected the jumper to another position to by-pass this voltage regulator. Bingo! The LED for the USB connection on the iGalvanic was brightly lighted up. And the iGalvanic could work now.

 

But there is still a issue that it cannot work in the optimal ground/earth switch position. There's audio drop-out I have to use the other two positions. Could you please advise which position will be better?

 

Slightly amendment in the last two paragraphs as follows: -

"………

…Finally, in the manual of the JCAT USB Card, I had found a clue that might account for the problem. The clue was that there are jumpers on the JCAT Card for connection of the external power supply to its internal voltage regulator in order to further filter out any noise coming from the power supply, and there is a statement under this jumper saying that "+4.5V Max 0.9A". I thought that it might be because of this smaller voltage than 5V and/or limitation in current that had caused the problem. I then connected the jumper to another position to by-pass this voltage regulator. Bingo! The LED for the USB connection on the iGalvanic was brightly lighted up. And the iGalvanic could work now.

 

But there is still an issue that it cannot work in the optimal ground/earth link switch position. There's audio drop-out that I have no choice but to use the other two switch positions (either up or down).

 

Could you please advise which position will be better? And is it possible to resume to use the optimal isolation, i.e. central position of the switch?"

[rickca]

3 hours ago, simonklp said:

I then connected the jumper to another position to by-pass this voltage regulator. Bingo!

So does this mean that you are drawing more than 900 mA?  What DAC are you using, is it bus powered?  This doesn't sound healthy for the host USB3 port.

[One and a half]

Diana Krall released "Turn up the Quiet" which I was critical of being too sibilant, especially on the opening vocals. After re-visting the same tracks with the Galvanic 3.0/Micro USB3.0, that sibilant is gone , the album doesn't 'grate' any more. Technically the album is listenable in earnest.

 

Still wondering whether to add in the iDefender supplied with the bundle in the main system. The test system had a bit of trouble with clicks, but this was due to an out of spec Intona, the clicks are gone now.

[One and a half]

IIRC, the JCAT Femto USB Card needs 1500mA to work with the ifi Galvanic 3.0.

[lmitche]

41 minutes ago, One and a half said:

IIRC, the JCAT Femto USB Card needs 1500mA to work with the ifi Galvanic 3.0.

Hmm, so the iGV is a bit of a power hog? Looks like 1500mA rules out a LPS-1 as a power source.

[PPk]

48 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Diana Krall released "Turn up the Quiet" which I was critical of being too sibilant, especially on the opening vocals. After re-visting the same tracks with the Galvanic 3.0/Micro USB3.0, that sibilant is gone , the album doesn't 'grate' any more. Technically the album is listenable in earnest.

 

Still wondering whether to add in the iDefender supplied with the bundle in the main system. The test system had a bit of trouble with clicks, but this was due to an out of spec Intona, the clicks are gone now.

There's audible difference with Idefender..

[One and a half]

Just now, lmitche said:

Hmm, so the iGV is a bit of a power hog? Looks like 1500MA rules out an LPS-1 as a power source.

That would be to supply 900mA for the USB 3.0 spec + operations of the JCAT + whatever the Galvanic 3.0 uses.

There's no jack for an external power supply, there's only the two USB 3.0 connectors, input and output. If the power is supplied externally, the USB 3.0 pinout would have to followed, there's additional data links and differences in transmission which could prove problematic.

 

 

 

 

 

[simonklp]

5 hours ago, rickca said:

So does this mean that you are drawing more than 900 mA?  What DAC are you using, is it bus powered?  This doesn't sound healthy for the host USB3 port.

 

Kindly please refer to my second post showing the amendment of the last two paragraphs of the first post. In the second post, I have quoted the information stated in the manual of JCAT USB card that if the jumpers for the low noise voltage regulators are connected, the external power supply of 5V will only regulated to "+4.5V and 0.9A Max" to the JCAT USB3.0 ports.

 

Owing to the fact that the problem was solved by bypassing the voltage regulators, I can only suspect that this "reduced voltage from 5V to 4.5V" and/or the "limited current of 0.9A max" output from JCAT USB Card is not sufficient for iGalvanic3.0 to recognise it as a valid USB3.0/2.0 connection.

 

Hope that I have made it clear. If not, kindly please let me know.

[simonklp]

2 hours ago, PPk said:

There's audible difference with Idefender..

 

Yes, l agree. But with the iDefender, I don't think that the SQ is better. Anyway, I may need more time to verify that.

[rickca]

2 minutes ago, simonklp said:

Hope that I have made it clear. If not, kindly please let me know.

Yes, I thought it was clear before.  When you bypass the voltage regulator, you relax the current limitation, right?  So a possible implication is that it works when you bypass the voltage regulator because you're drawing more than 900 mA.  Do I misunderstand?

[simonklp]

3 hours ago, One and a half said:

IIRC, the JCAT Femto USB Card needs 1500mA to work with the ifi Galvanic 3.0.

 

Where do you get this information?

[rickca]

2 hours ago, PPk said:

There's audible difference with Idefender.

Where in the chain are you using iDefender and what external 5V power supply are you using?

[simonklp]

3 hours ago, lmitche said:

Hmm, so the iGV is a bit of a power hog? Looks like 1500mA rules out a LPS-1 as a power source.

 

I do not know where the information of 1500mA comes from. But I am using a LPS-1 to serve as the external power supply for the JCAT USB FEMTO Card which, in turn, is connected to iGalvanic3.0 and then the DAC for music playback without problem except the audio dropout at optimal isolation (centre position of the ground link switch) of the iGalvanic3.0.

[simonklp]

6 hours ago, rickca said:

What DAC are you using, is it bus powered?

 

I am using the T+A DAC 8 DSD, which is not bus powered. I had told you in another post days ago. Do you forget it?

[lmitche]

11 minutes ago, simonklp said:

 

I do not know where the information of 1500mA comes from. But I am using a LPS-1 to serve as the external power supply for the JCAT USB FEMTO Card which, in turn, is connected to iGalvanic3.0 and then the DAC for music playback without problem except the audio dropout at optimal isolation (centre position of the ground link switch) of the iGalvanic3.0.

That's good news about the lps-1, thanks.

[simonklp]

32 minutes ago, rickca said:

Yes, I thought it was clear before.  When you bypass the voltage regulator, you relax the current limitation, right?  So a possible implication is that it works when you bypass the voltage regulator because you're drawing more than 900 mA.  Do I misunderstand?

 

I just want to add one more point of voltage reduction from 5V to 4.5V after the voltage regulator at JCAT may also be an valid cause of the problem. It may be possible that iGalvanic needs 5V to operate or recognise the USB connection as indicated by the fact that the LED light for showing connected USB on iGalvanic was very dim when the voltage regulator was not bypassed.

 

In addition, why did you ask "you're drawing more than 900mA"?. In fact, the current (or voltage) is drawn (or required) by iGalvanic3.0. It is not a problem of the current demand from my DAC. It's a problem of unable to recognise the USB 3.0/2.0 connection by iGalvanic. To answer this question, you and I have to ask iFi whether there's such input requirements to the iGalvanic or not.

 

Could iFi please advise anything on the above situation?

[PPk]

41 minutes ago, rickca said:

Where in the chain are you using iDefender and what external 5V power supply are you using?

ifi ipower v5, the one that came with the bundle. i place it before the igalvanic so that the circuit on igalvanic can benefit from a separate power source.

[rickca]

1 hour ago, simonklp said:

 

I am using the T+A DAC 8 DSD, which is not bus powered. I had told you in another post days ago. Do you forget it?

Yeah, I forgot.  That was 3 days ago! 

 

Did you try your iGalvanic in a PC USB3 port instead of a port on your JCAT card?  That would eliminate the whole voltage regulator question.

 

The combination of JCAT USB FEMTO and LPS-1 seems ideal.  Aside from the dropouts, how does it sound compared to the Intona?

[mulberry bush]

4 hours ago, PPk said:

ifi ipower v5, the one that came with the bundle. i place it before the igalvanic so that the circuit on igalvanic can benefit from a separate power source.

 

But according to iFi there is no advantage in doing that! 

[One and a half]

5 hours ago, simonklp said:

 

Where do you get this information?

From here. JCAT forum.