The true experimental tweak thread

[Cornan]

5 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Deleted

 

 

[BigGuy]

14 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Hmm, let's see if I get your questions right? ?

 

 

1)  Not really! You'll use 2+2 wires plus 1 ground (plus shield) on XLRs with starquad. If you want to use the JSSG floating as it should be I think you've only got the option to loop pin 1 & 2. Not completely sure yet if that will give you a fully balanced connection or unbalanced connection yet though.

 

 

2)  There is several ways to do it. Either you plug positive wires to positive and negative wires to negative and use a JSSG or you can connect the JSSG to the negative side, but then it is not a JSSG anymore. You can also use it without a JSSG, but IME unshielded wires is not a good thing with RCA.

 

 

3)  Yes!

 

 

4) You should! XLRs is one of the best signal sources around, because it uses the ground/shield as the third wheel without it being connected to the outer shell of the plugs which couples with the internal pins. Natural isolation! ?

 

 

1)  I think we are saying the same thing, Cornan...  I understand the 2+2+1 of the star quad to the XLR. 

Would not attaching a sixth insulated wire to the two ends of existing cable shield be the same as a JSSG?

 

2) Seems that using a JSSG is the best alternative.

 

3) Phew!  It seems to me that this is comparable to what I am suggesting in (1) or  am I missing something?

 

4) I am using a preamp with only single-ended inputs and outputs tho' both my DAC and amps have XLR sockets.  I have been told that XLR->RCA adapters negate the positive aspect of the XLR connection.

 

 

[Solid-State]

On 2017-11-05 at 10:14 PM, sandyk said:

 

 I intend comparing it with my recent 12V 15,000mAH battery into a JLH with around 4 FARAD simulated capacitance when powering a USB Regen, which was clearly better than a 9V Voltage Regulator followed by a JLH PSU add-on, as well as directly after a friend's HD Plex to see if it gives him a further improvement.

When using it with a 7.2V Li Ion battery, it will, shortly after the switch on delay, put around 33 FARADS of capacitance directly across the 7.2V battery, or voltage regulator set for +7.2V powered via a 12V Li Ion battery or Linear PSU.

As you can see , the overall cost will be very modest, and a good introduction to Supercap technology for me.

 

[Solid-State]

http://www.jenving.com/products/view/eff-i-audio-blue-b50-1001800141

 

good XLR

[Solid-State]

"

What it boils down to, is this: XLRs are balanced (3 pin) and RCAs are unbalanced (1 pin).

The main benefit of balanced cables is their ability to transfer sound signals over much longer runs/distances without signal loss, or interference. They have a very low signal to noise ratio, so will often give you a much better sound, especially over longer cables. What all cables are is various styles and lengths of copper, which act much like an antenna. The connects work in much the same way – unbalanced ones prone to picking up errant interference, balanced ones keeping the signal."

 

http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/blog/xlr-vs-rca-interconnects-is-there-a-difference/

 

[Cornan]

42 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

1)  I think we are saying the same thing, Cornan...  I understand the 2+2+1 of the star quad to the XLR. 

Would not attaching a sixth insulated wire to the two ends of existing cable shield be the same as a JSSG?

 

2) Seems that using a JSSG is the best alternative.

 

3) Phew!  It seems to me that this is comparable to what I am suggesting in (1) or  am I missing something?

 

4) I am using a preamp with only single-ended inputs and outputs tho' both my DAC and amps have XLR sockets.  I have been told that XLR->RCA adapters negate the positive aspect of the XLR connection.

 

 

 

1) No, since a proper JSSG is not connected to the plugs. Only to the shield ends. There is simply no way to get a proper JSSG to work unless you loop pin 1 & 3 at the plug end. If not it is just a plain vanilla shield.

 

2) Depends. IME JSSG is truly great. However, I haven't tried every possible shield type on all types of cables. Therefore I prefer not to say anything more than it is the best one that I've tried so far! ?

 

3) In a way, but you did say six wires in your first question and five wires in your second question (Belden). That's why I couldn't say yes to both! ?

 

4) XLRs can sound great in combination with RCA, but only shines when it is balanced XLR all through.

[mikicasellas]

Hello,

 

I hope i am in the right forum for this:

 

I have been trying to figure out what are the weakest points in my system for some time:

 

Cables, PSU and transport are for me the most important "possible" weak points in order to upgrade first:

 

In the transport side: I have been trying to decide if i ditch my MacMini in order to upgrade it with a very good streamer (SOtM sMS-200ultra) or a Dedicated PC with SOtM or JCAT usb cards & clocks with super good PSU for each choices and so.

 

But as i am trying different things i get more confused until now...

 

Last year i purchased a Microrendu / LPS-1 / Sonictransporter i5, i ended up selling everything expect for the LPS-1, which i still have now with the ISO REGEN which makes more sense at least in my experience.

 

I really could not hear any improvement in my system having that combo and if there was any, i am guessing something so subtle that my ears could not tell and my wallet started begging a refund...

 

Now i hear all kind of wonders about the Ultrarendu and sMS-200ultra and in my mind i go like: i heard the same things about the micro rendu last year, you know?

 

The only tweak my Mac mini has is the one that Louis Motek from LessLoss made for me, a cable that has a firewall which can connect to a regular power cord like any other device in an audio system, maybe that helped some how, dunno!

 

Thing is that i am trying to decide with my little money (right now) where am i going to put it, which upgrade would come out first

 

and i made a tweak if you can call it like that, in order to see how noisy was my MacMini as a transport, in order to ditch it, i decide to play the same DSD files that i play in the MacMini thru ROON, only this time directly from my OPPO 205 directly into my preamp via XLR thru with the original DSD disc and found out that is only a little cleaner on the OPPO.

 

Does that comparo make any sense?

 

So my first guess is that i might go with my Isolation transformer (the one which all is connected) or my cables.

 

I am not good at making tweaks at all, i really follow others suggestions once they have completed them and try, sometimes with success and others not.

 

My speakers, preamp and amp are very good, so i know from there i don't have much problem...even with the OPPO as a transport i still getting this sense of "little harshness", which io thought was exclusively from the "noisy Mac".

 

Do you think the clock on the SOtM sMS-200ultra with the MacMini as a ROON server will make the sound much better than the sound coming directly from the OPPO 205 as a direct cd/DSD player?

 

Regards to all!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cornan]

18 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

Hello,

 

I hope i am in the right forum for this:

 

I have been trying to figure out what are the weakest points in my system for some time:

 

Cables, PSU and transport are for me the most important "possible" weak points in order to upgrade first:

 

In the transport side: I have been trying to decide if i ditch my MacMini in order to upgrade it with a very good streamer (SOtM sMS-200ultra) or a Dedicated PC with SOtM or JCAT usb cards & clocks with super good PSU for each choices and so.

 

But as i am trying different things i get more confused until now...

 

Last year i purchased a Microrendu / LPS-1 / Sonictransporter i5, i ended up selling everything expect for the LPS-1, which i still have now with the ISO REGEN which makes more sense at least in my experience.

 

I really could not hear any improvement in my system having that combo and if there was any, i am guessing something so subtle that my ears could not tell and my wallet started begging a refund...

 

Now i hear all kind of wonders about the Ultrarendu and sMS-200ultra and in my mind i go like: i heard the same things about the micro rendu last year, you know?

 

The only tweak my Mac mini has is the one that Louis Motek from LessLoss made for me, a cable that has a firewall which can connect to a regular power cord like any other device in an audio system, maybe that helped some how, dunno!

 

Thing is that i am trying to decide with my little money (right now) where am i going to put it, which upgrade would come out first

 

and i made a tweak if you can call it like that, in order to see how noisy was my MacMini as a transport, in order to ditch it, i decide to play the same DSD files that i play in the MacMini thru ROON, only this time directly from my OPPO 205 directly into my preamp via XLR thru with the original DSD disc and found out that is only a little cleaner on the OPPO.

 

Does that comparo make any sense?

 

So my first guess is that i might go with my Isolation transformer (the one which all is connected) or my cables.

 

I am not good at making tweaks at all, i really follow others suggestions once they have completed them and try, sometimes with success and others not.

 

My speakers, preamp and amp are very good, so i know from there i don't have much problem...even with the OPPO as a transport i still getting this sense of "little harshness", which io thought was exclusively from the "noisy Mac".

 

Do you think the clock on the SOtM sMS-200ultra with the MacMini as a ROON server will make the sound much better than the sound coming directly from the OPPO 205 as a direct cd/DSD player?

 

Regards to all!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi mikicasellas!

 

A source is not better than you make it! The old suggestion to build your setup from AC mains and up still holds true. Without a good isolation transformer you will not come very far. 

 

My recommendation would be to aim for the product that speaks to your heart and then make the most of it. If you still like the MAC Mini I cannot see any reason to leave it. You can squeeze out tons of great SQ from it.

 

If I would be in your shoes I would start to buy a isolation transformer. If you want a great one aim for a balanced isolation transformer with floating center tap. Alex at ATL Hi-Fi can build you one for a fair price.

 

When you've got the IT you can decide if you like what you hear and continue down the MAC Mini path or choose the SMS-200ultra and use it together with the MAC Mini.

 

There is tons of great things you can try, but without a good foundation many of them is pointless. A good IT is a good foundation! ?

 

Micael

 

[mikicasellas]

2 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Hi mikicasellas!

 

A source is not better than you make it! The old suggestion to build your setup from AC mains and up still holds true. Without a good isolation transformer you will not come very far. 

 

My recommendation would be to aim for the product that speaks to your heart and then make the most of it. If you still like the MAC Mini I cannot see any reason to leave it. You can squeeze out tons of great SQ from it.

 

If I would be in your shoes I would start to buy a isolation transformer. If you want a great one aim for a balanced isolation transformer with floating center tap. Alex at ATL Hi-Fi can build you one for a fair price.

 

When you've got the IT you can decide if you like what you hear and continue down the MAC Mini path or choose the SMS-200ultra and use it together with the MAC Mini.

 

There is tons of great things you can try, but without a good foundation many of them is pointless. A good IT is a good foundation! ?

 

Micael

 

 

 

Thought So!

 

I have a TOPAZ isolation Transformer, it has helped to lower noise from the wall,  although not sure if it is functioning at 100% as they are used and old transformers and it is not balanced, but it still a monster of 1KVA with .001pF of capacitance.

 

Thanks for the ATL suggestion, by the way have you heard of know anything about "Toroid Supreme Transformers"?

 

Check this choice: 

https://toroid.com/Home/Product-Details/ProductID/33

 

Thanks Micael

 

Mike

 

 

[Cornan]

28 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

 

 

Thought So!

 

I have a TOPAZ isolation Transformer, it has helped to lower noise from the wall,  although not sure if it is functioning at 100% as they are used and old transformers and it is not balanced, but it still a monster of 1KVA with .001pF of capacitance.

 

Thanks for the ATL suggestion, by the way have you heard of know anything about "Toroid Supreme Transformers"?

 

Check this choice: 

https://toroid.com/Home/Product-Details/ProductID/33

 

Thanks Micael

 

Mike

 

 

 

You're welcome Mike! ?

 

It is unfortunatey not uncommon with Topaz failures. I have seen a few posts about it here on CA. Usually they get pretty hot if something is wrong though.

 

Nice balanced IT on your link. However, it is still have a grounded center tap. Floating center tap is much better unless you have installed a dedicated earth receptacle in your listening room. It is a very simple rewire to do that I am sure they can do for you. Just let me know if you need schematics for it. It do require a 2-pole RCD/GFCI at the output for safety.

 

Micael

 

 

 

 

[BigGuy]

4 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

1) No, since a proper JSSG is not connected to the plugs. Only to the shield ends. There is simply no way to get a proper JSSG to work unless you loop pin 1 & 3 at the plug end. If not it is just a plain vanilla shield.

1)  The cable shown has 5 conductors including the ground wire, and a shield.

 

IF I am wiring an XLR, you have 2+, 2- and GND or 5 wires.  If you now attach a 6th insulated wire (not included in the cable) to the 2 ends of the foil shield, is that not a JSSG?  I thought the JSSG was a shield with an insulated wire attached to both ends?!

 

IF I am wiring an RCA, you have 2+, 2-, an unused ground wire and the shield which is not attached to anything.  Can I use the 5th wire of the 5 conductor cable to create a JSSG by attaching it to the ends of the foil shield...or would it be better to not use this ground wire at all but attach an insulated wire to the ends of the shield? 

 

4 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

2) Depends. IME JSSG is truly great. However, I haven't tried every possible shield type on all types of cables. Therefore I prefer not to say anything more than it is the best one that I've tried so far! ?

 

3) In a way, but you did say six wires in your first question and five wires in your second question (Belden). That's why I couldn't say yes to both! ?

 

4) XLRs can sound great in combination with RCA, but only shines when it is balanced XLR all through.

4) Problem is that the single ended preamp is between the DAC and amps, so no ability to use XLR.

[BigGuy]

4 hours ago, TubeMan said:

"

What it boils down to, is this: XLRs are balanced (3 pin) and RCAs are unbalanced (1 pin).

The main benefit of balanced cables is their ability to transfer sound signals over much longer runs/distances without signal loss, or interference. They have a very low signal to noise ratio, so will often give you a much better sound, especially over longer cables. What all cables are is various styles and lengths of copper, which act much like an antenna. The connects work in much the same way – unbalanced ones prone to picking up errant interference, balanced ones keeping the signal."

 

http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/blog/xlr-vs-rca-interconnects-is-there-a-difference/

 

This looks like cable...not XLR connectors.

[sandyk]

There is very little (if any) advantage to using properly balanced outputs over normal well shielded coaxial type construction cables of around 1metre long. Using fully balanced cables normally implies the use of additional electronics where both halves may not be absolutely identical. 

3 hours ago, BigGuy said:

The main benefit of balanced cables is their ability to transfer sound signals over much longer runs/distances without signal loss, or interference.

 

As BigGuy has stated, they are of more benefit with long runs, such as in Studios etc.

Although Headphone amplifiers are being discussed in the attached, it also has implications for other devices.

 

Alex

https://www.amb.org/forum/benchmark-engineer-on-balanced-v-unbalanced-headphone-amps-t326.html#p2942

 

[Speedskater]

17 hours ago, TubeMan said:

 

What it boils down to, is this: XLRs are balanced (3 pin) and RCAs are unbalanced (1 pin).

For analog cable systems:

a] Balanced XLR connectors have 3 terminals. High, low & Shield.

b] Unbalanced RCA connectors have 2 terminals. High & Low/Shield. (center pin & shell)

It's all about the system and the connectors. As several different types of cable can be used in each of the systems.

 

Not that both XLR and RCA connectors are often repurposed.

[Monge]

18 hours ago, TubeMan said:

http://www.jenving.com/products/view/eff-i-audio-blue-b50-1001800141

 

good XLR

Looks like a very good cable to me. Do you recomend that Supra?

Regards Monge

[Cornan]

4 hours ago, Speedskater said:

For analog cable systems:

a] Balanced XLR connectors have 3 terminals. High, low & Shield.

b] Unbalanced RCA connectors have 2 terminals. High & Low/Shield. (center pin & shell)

It's all about the system and the connectors. As several different types of cable can be used in each of the systems.

 

Not that both XLR and RCA connectors are often repurposed.

 

@Speedskater 

What is your personal opinion of a starquad XLR cable with 6 conductors plus JSSG? This means 2 hot, 2 low and 2 GND plus 2 floating shields with a JSSG loop attached at all 4 shield ends (not connected to the pins). ?

High & low in one floating shield and GND in a separate floating shield.

[Cornan]

17 hours ago, BigGuy said:

1)  The cable shown has 5 conductors including the ground wire, and a shield.

 

IF I am wiring an XLR, you have 2+, 2- and GND or 5 wires.  If you now attach a 6th insulated wire (not included in the cable) to the 2 ends of the foil shield, is that not a JSSG?  I thought the JSSG was a shield with an insulated wire attached to both ends?!

 

IF I am wiring an RCA, you have 2+, 2-, an unused ground wire and the shield which is not attached to anything.  Can I use the 5th wire of the 5 conductor cable to create a JSSG by attaching it to the ends of the foil shield...or would it be better to not use this ground wire at all but attach an insulated wire to the ends of the shield? 

 

Yes, it is a 5 conductor cable with shield. A JSSG must be a floating shield, so neither the shield nor the insulated drain wires must be connected to the XLR pins.

I just asked @Speedskater for his opinion on a proper starquad XLR with 6 conductors plus JSSG. Let's see what he thinks about it! ?

 

 

[Solid-State]

5 hours ago, Monge said:

Looks like a very good cable to me. Do you recomend that Supra?

Regards Monge

strongly,

strongly,
very good for the price,

 

it even very good ad DC Cable

[Monge]

3 hours ago, TubeMan said:

strongly,

strongly,
very good for the price,

 

it even very good ad DC Cable

Thank you very much 

It’s very easy for me to get/buy here In Denmark.

Regards Monge

[mozes]

I have been playing around with LT3045 boards and I found that it comes with some limitations. These boards wok very well with low power consumption devices such as switches that consume about 1Amp or less. For my server, I have been using an unregulated 12V 18Amp LifePo4 battery with amazing results. The downside is that I have to  disconnect it from my server when I charge it as the charger output is rated at 14.6V, I measured it and confirmed that. I tried powering it with two LPS-1 in series to get 12V, but the 1.1amps were not enough.

 

I thought of an idea to keep the charger in place so I installed two 1A 12v LT3045  in parallel to the battery output leads and I have been listening on and off today. What is clear is that, the magic is gone, sound is flatter with restricted dynamics, but very clean and low noise floor. disconnecting the charger makes no difference, so I guess the LT3045s are doing their job. I will do one more test with 4 LT3045 1A boards in parallel and see what I will find.

 

I think that having current headroom is more important than super voltage regulation in my case, I want both!!

 

Hope this helps

[mozes]

20 minutes ago, mozes said:

I have been playing around with LT3045 boards and I found that it comes with some limitations. These boards wok very well with low power consumption devices such as switches that consume about 1Amp or less. For my server, I have been using an unregulated 12V 18Amp LifePo4 battery with amazing results. The downside is that I have to  disconnect it from my server when I charge it as the charger output is rated at 14.6V, I measured it and confirmed that. I tried powering it with two LPS-1 in series to get 12V, but the 1.1amps were not enough.

 

I thought of an idea to keep the charger in place so I installed two 1A 12v LT3045  in parallel to the battery output leads and I have been listening on and off today. What is clear is that, the magic is gone, sound is flatter with restricted dynamics, but very clean and low noise floor.

It could be a matter of break in time for the ceramic caps. Also disconnecting the charger makes no difference, so I guess the LT3045s are doing their job. I will do one more test with 4 LT3045 1A boards in parallel and see what I will find.

 

I think that having current headroom is more important than super voltage regulation in my case, I want both!!

 

Hope this helps

 

[mourip]

Thanks to all for bringing the  LT3045 board to light. Mine came today and I installed it in my Mutec 3+ USB which was already running off of a HDPlex LPS from it's 9v variable output. I had it set to 6.3. Switching from the SMPS to the LPS made a nice change. Today I raised the output to 6.8v and installed the 6v version of the LT3045 board. I also retained the modest sized electrolytic that I had been using for local bypassing of the DC input inside the chassis.I was hoping to at least break even for my effort but found that the improvement was really good. The noise floor must have dropped quite a bit because more details were brought out. I also found an improvement of perceived tonal "correctness".

 

Nice tweak!

 

[sandyk]

49 minutes ago, mourip said:

The noise floor must have dropped quite a bit because more details were brought out. I also found an improvement of perceived tonal "correctness".

 

A very good power supply will always do that, even with digital devices.

However, you will still find that the types and values of the capacitors used in the very low noise PSUs will affect the final sound balance .

 It's a case of getting the mix of capacitor values and types right. This is where actual listening is more important than  just "superb" technical measurements.

[Solid-State]

9 hours ago, mozes said:

I have been playing around with LT3045 boards and I found that it comes with some limitations. These boards wok very well with low power consumption devices such as switches that consume about 1Amp or less. For my server, I have been using an unregulated 12V 18Amp LifePo4 battery with amazing results. The downside is that I have to  disconnect it from my server when I charge it as the charger output is rated at 14.6V, I measured it and confirmed that. I tried powering it with two LPS-1 in series to get 12V, but the 1.1amps were not enough.

 

I thought of an idea to keep the charger in place so I installed two 1A 12v LT3045  in parallel to the battery output leads and I have been listening on and off today. What is clear is that, the magic is gone, sound is flatter with restricted dynamics, but very clean and low noise floor. disconnecting the charger makes no difference, so I guess the LT3045s are doing their job. I will do one more test with 4 LT3045 1A boards in parallel and see what I will find.

 

I think that having current headroom is more important than super voltage regulation in my case, I want both!!

 

Hope this helps

what you experience is completely in order,
What you should think about is,
that a computer requires significantly more than 2Ah,

12v CPU and Mb about 2Ah

5V at least 4Ah !!
It is the most important to MB

3.3v  2Ah

so using the LT3045 to feed is completely wrong when it is not intended or abel to feed so much power,
so there will not be enough  with 4 in parrallell either,

Because you are using battery, the regulators are not "equal" important,
You already have a relative "clean" stream,

this is good information howe to feed  PC with battery

[Cornan]

10 hours ago, mozes said:

I have been playing around with LT3045 boards and I found that it comes with some limitations. These boards wok very well with low power consumption devices such as switches that consume about 1Amp or less. For my server, I have been using an unregulated 12V 18Amp LifePo4 battery with amazing results. The downside is that I have to  disconnect it from my server when I charge it as the charger output is rated at 14.6V, I measured it and confirmed that. I tried powering it with two LPS-1 in series to get 12V, but the 1.1amps were not enough.

 

I thought of an idea to keep the charger in place so I installed two 1A 12v LT3045  in parallel to the battery output leads and I have been listening on and off today. What is clear is that, the magic is gone, sound is flatter with restricted dynamics, but very clean and low noise floor. disconnecting the charger makes no difference, so I guess the LT3045s are doing their job. I will do one more test with 4 LT3045 1A boards in parallel and see what I will find.

 

I think that having current headroom is more important than super voltage regulation in my case, I want both!!

 

Hope this helps

 

Thanks for sharing Moussa! ?

Possibly the server needs more headroom than the LT3045s can offer. There is also a possibility that you are creating additional leakage paths. This is what I experienced in the beginning with the LT3045s in series. I tracked it down to the DC- output grounding of the Gopherts powering ISO Regen and Aries Mini. When I removed those DC- output groundings completely the SQ jumped sky high. It seems that the LT3045s in blocking leakage to a certain degree. This means that the leakage choose other paths instead. If that path is into your DAC your in trouble.

If you have any non-ethernet devices DC- output grounded try to remove those and see how it turns out. You might be surprised! ?

 

A tip where to start is to check which DC paths that still do not have inline LT3045s. That would possibly be a great path for leakage.