dCS Network Bridge

[mecani]

It has been a good move to sell the network bridge
I'm sorry for those who were still waiting for this update
there are more roads

[Cooler]

1 hour ago, AMP said:

I wanted to give everyone an update on the USB audio output feature on the Network Bridge. Please see the statement from dCS below.

 

-----

 

Dear dCS Customer

 

After months of software development and testing we have had to change course on the roadmap for our Network Bridge. Although we had promising results early in our development cycle our engineering team could not get the USB audio output function to meet our performance standards. As a result we have decided that we cannot release a feature which we know is compromised.

 

We are truly sorry for any disappointment that this decision may cause our existing loyal Network Bridge customers and want to assure you that it was not one reached lightly. We invested a significant amount of time and resource into enabling this feature and explored every possible avenue to achieve our performance requirements. Sadly, there comes a point when development efforts no longer make business sense due to their impact on other major product improvements and enhancements.

 

In Spring 2018 we enabled MQA unfold on the Network Bridge and on July 1, 2018 we kicked off a project to enhance the user experience of our network streaming platform which will greatly enhance the usability of the Network Bridge. This project will generate multiple software releases for our entire product line as we refine the stability, performance, and feature set of our streaming offerings

 

We thank you for your continued support.

 

The dCS Team

 

Hello, what about wifi? Does it exist on paper only too?

 

And about usb, does it mean, that in future you will release new NB2 with hardware updates, which will have usb and wifi features?!

[Vule]

"Maybe they should have let customers try a "beta" version of the firmware with USB output and see if they are happy with it? What if they were? "

Completely agree.Good idea.It would be fair enough. Again I am afraid of some hardware restriction which leads to...

"And about usb, does it mean, that in future you will release new NB2 with hardware updates, which will have usb and wifi features?!"

My question is related to existence of some planned UPGRADE program for NB owners. Will there be any???????

[mecani]

now there will be a long season of silence

[Pedro Romão]

2 hours ago, AMP said:

Does that mean I am getting my hard earned money back if I send back the bridge?

 

 

 

I wanted to give everyone an update on the USB audio output feature on the Network Bridge. Please see the statement from dCS below.

 

-----

 

Dear dCS Customer

 

After months of software development and testing we have had to change course on the roadmap for our Network Bridge. Although we had promising results early in our development cycle our engineering team could not get the USB audio output function to meet our performance standards. As a result we have decided that we cannot release a feature which we know is compromised.

 

We are truly sorry for any disappointment that this decision may cause our existing loyal Network Bridge customers and want to assure you that it was not one reached lightly. We invested a significant amount of time and resource into enabling this feature and explored every possible avenue to achieve our performance requirements. Sadly, there comes a point when development efforts no longer make business sense due to their impact on other major product improvements and enhancements.

 

In Spring 2018 we enabled MQA unfold on the Network Bridge and on July 1, 2018 we kicked off a project to enhance the user experience of our network streaming platform which will greatly enhance the usability of the Network Bridge. This project will generate multiple software releases for our entire product line as we refine the stability, performance, and feature set of our streaming offerings

 

We thank you for your continued support.

 

The dCS Team

 

[rickca]

3 hours ago, firedog said:

Glad I didn't buy one thinking the USB would come later.

Same here.  You can never rely on promises reported by the press.

 

A similar thing happened to me with my Ayre QB-9.  Ayre told the press that the QB-9 DSD upgrade which initially only supported DSD64 would be followed by a free upgrade to DSD128.  So I upgraded my unit to a QB-9 DSD and periodically asked Ayre about DSD128 support.  Ayre eventually told me they couldn't get it to work.  So I sold my QB-9 DSD.  Then about a year later Ayre offered a DSD128 upgrade for the QB-9 DSD for $200.  I haven't bought an Ayre piece since.

[Patatorz]

Ok...so this is the end....

i postponed for nearly 1 year to buy the dCS waiting for the USB feature. After lot of test with the support of my local reseller and keeping in mind that USB feature would be released (i have few emails of people in dCS stating that it was just a question of time), I bought one. 

 

I went through all the delicious post of @AMP mentioning that MQA is highly requested by customers (much more than USB) and I thought it was just a question of priorities. So I was patient keeping in mind that the risk is there. 

 

So now I have a very good product from sound quality standpoint but fully focus on dCS ecosystem especially in order to read dsd (double aes etc..). 

 

So if we check :

1/ USB audio output  compatibility : NOK

2/ WiFi : NOK

3/ MQA : shitty format, lossy and purely marketing oriented : approved.

 

so next step is really to understand what to do with this device. I went to dCS as it is a well know company in digital domain. I had so bad experience with « high end company » that care only about profit and not at all about customer (let’s give one name for the sake of example : Amare Musica). Software and integration is the key topic and I thought dCS would be the good choice.

 

i  was going to buy a Rossini clock in order to upgrade the NB after a lot of test especially with mutec as competitor. I think I need to explore other ways now.

 

Perhaps it was too early and I would have waited for a second generation. 

 

i’m clearly Not the targeted customer of dCS and now I feel it (very deeply).

 

finally we pay too much for a beta product and as Mecani said : 1/ he sold his unit at the right time 2/ time for long silence from dCS side.

[ken6217]

I was debating by the NB and was planning on using dual AES/EBU output to my Debussy. 

 

Im curious as to why the people that own the Bridge and are outputting it already with which ever method they are already using, are upset by no USB output? 

 

What is USB output gaining for you that you are not getting now?

 

Thanks. 

[Patatorz]

Dsd output when you are not using a dCS dac ?

a dac that have better performance on usb than aes/spdif

 

sorry to not be so fan of dCS dac

[ken6217]

Who said USB output sounds better?

 

I'm not playing devil's advocate, but all of the excellent reviews were done without USB output. I assume the people that bought the NWB were happy with the sound or they would have sold them. So now the NWB no longer sounds good because USB output will not be happening? 

 

 

[Vule]

Resolution or bit rate limitation is the key point here.

[ken6217]

What is the highest bit rate and resolution that can be achieved without USB with this bridge? Thanks.

[mecani]

15 minutes ago, ken6217 said:

¿Quién dijo que la salida USB suena mejor?

 

No estoy jugando al abogado del diablo, pero todas las excelentes críticas se realizaron sin salida USB. Supongo que las personas que compraron el NWB estaban contentas con el sonido o que las habrían vendido. Entonces, ¿ahora la NWB ya no suena bien porque la salida USB no va a estar sucediendo? 

 

 

Who said it sounds worse?

[Patatorz]

@ken6217 I think you are joking. If it is not the case it is more terrific.

nonody can say that usb sounds better : nobody hear it.

nobody says that the NB is bad now.

 

you are in the digital area where format (mqa), outputs (usb...) and protocols (roon) are changing on a time line that is much more different than LP. I bought a device that I was expecting being able To evolve in the future providing enough flexibility to be used be other device (out of dCS ecosystem). Finally it is not. 

The device is good but not at the level of expectation I have (and I’m not the only one) for such device at such price.

[mecani]

it is a question of options depending on the dac you have

[Patatorz]

5 minutes ago, ken6217 said:

What is the highest bit rate and resolution that can be achieved without USB with this bridge? Thanks.

24/192 in pcm and dsd64 in dop if your dac take dop

[mecani]

if you do not have a dac dcs that is the case of many people you do not have the possibility of playing full dsd files, the hope was the usb output

[ken6217]

Gotcha. 

 

Well i I was about to buy new. If anyone is contemplating selling, PM me. 

Ken

[xtraktz]

11 minutes ago, ken6217 said:

Gotcha. 

 

Well i I was about to buy new. If anyone is contemplating selling, PM me. 

Ken

Me too pls. I have one Debussy for NB  

[Beolab]

39 minutes ago, Patatorz said:

24/192 in pcm and dsd64 in dop if your dac take dop

 

 

• Digital Outputs

  2x AES/EBU on 3-pin male XLR connectors, each outputs PCM at up to 24 bit 192kS/s or DSD/64 in DoP format. Used as a Dual AES pair, the interface outputs PCM at up to 384kS/s, DSD/64 & DSD/128 in DoP format. 1x SPDIF on 1x RCA Phono connector, outputs PCM at up to 24 bit 192kS/s or DSD/64 in DoP format. 1x SDIF-2 interface on 2x BNC connectors, outputs PCM at up to 24 bit 96kS/s or SDIF-2 DSD/64.

[AMP]

5 hours ago, firedog said:

Maybe they should have let customers try a "beta" version of the firmware with USB output and see if they are happy with it? What if they were? 

 

Given the number of hairs that are split on CA every day I seriously doubt that any member here would be happy with a feature that they knew had an issue even if they couldn't honestly hear a difference.

 

4 hours ago, Cooler said:

Hello, what about wifi? Does it exist on paper only too?

 

And about usb, does it mean, that in future you will release new NB2 with hardware updates, which will have usb and wifi features?!

 

Wi-Fi hardware was included in the product for possible future use and we were very clear about that. At this point it likely won't be enabled.

 

There are not any plans at the moment for a Network Bridge 2. Surely we will revise the product in the future, but it's not currently on our roadmap.

 

 

35 minutes ago, ken6217 said:

Who said USB output sounds better?

 

I'm not playing devil's advocate, but all of the excellent reviews were done without USB output. I assume the people that bought the NWB were happy with the sound or they would have sold them. So now the NWB no longer sounds good because USB output will not be happening? 

 

How dare you bring logic into this

 

13 minutes ago, mecani said:

if you do not have a dac dcs that is the case of many people you do not have the possibility of playing full dsd files, the hope was the usb output

 

I'm not sure I understand this statement. The NBR fully supports DSD via DoP using its digital outputs. The USB output would have been DoP as well and there was no plan to support "native" DSD via the USB output.

 

3 hours ago, Vule said:

My question is related to existence of some planned UPGRADE program for NB owners. Will there be any???????

 

There is no hardware upgrade currently planned for the Bridge. If we ever do a version 2 then we will provide an upgrade path for original owners as we do with all of our products. We also have upgrade programs in place to move from the Bridge to other products in our line. Talk to your dealer for details.

 

I am sorry that we weren't able to make the USB output work, but it wasn't for a lack of effort. USB audio output was never considered as a feature when the product was originally spec'd as the intended market was for owners of older dCS products who wanted to add streaming functionality to their existing products. As such the USB controller was never validated for this use case when the hardware was chosen.

 

Our initial feasibility study was promising but after implementing the feature we found some issues with certain DAC configurations. Our lead developer attempted to correct the problem by re-writing big chunks of the device driver in order to work around the hardware issues. This was a long process that prevented him from working on any other projects and although he managed to get it to work in most cases there were still some minor issues which couldn't be corrected in software. Rather than hold up development which benefits all of our customers in favor of a feature that benefits a small number we elected to move on.

 

To the armchair product managers here I can assure you that if placed in the middle of this you would have made exactly the same decision.

 

If you would like to voice your concerns, opinions, or simply vent your frustration then I strongly encourage you to contact dCS via our website, phone, or email.

 

 

 

 

[Patatorz]

Blabla bla bla

 

The concern was raised and will still be raised. This joke started when you declared that most of distributors/resellers were requesting MQA instead of USB. 

 

USB audio never considered : you want me to share few email with your head of marketing ?

 

The truth is that you don’t care about your customer. If you care show it .

[Patatorz]

1 hour ago, ken6217 said:

Gotcha. 

 

Well i I was about to buy new. If anyone is contemplating selling, PM me. 

Ken

Mine is for sale : 3700€

[ken6217]

9 minutes ago, Patatorz said:

Mine is for sale : 3700€

 

9 minutes ago, Patatorz said:

Mine is for sale : 3700€

 

9 minutes ago, Patatorz said:

Mine is for sale : 3700€

Whatever you’re smoking, I’ll take that instead. :)

 

US$3000 is what you would get for it at the most. 

[mecani]

2 hours ago, AMP said:

 

Dado el número de cabellos que se dividen en CA todos los días, dudo seriamente de que cualquier miembro aquí esté contento con una función que sabían que tenía un problema, incluso si no podían escuchar la diferencia.

 

 

El hardware de Wi-Fi se incluyó en el producto para su posible uso futuro y lo tuvimos muy claro. En este punto, probablemente no estará habilitado.

 

No hay ningún plan en este momento para un Network Bridge 2. Seguramente revisaremos el producto en el futuro, pero actualmente no está en nuestra hoja de ruta.

 

 

 

¿Cómo te atreves a traer lógica a esto?

 

 

No estoy seguro de entender esta declaración. El NBR es totalmente compatible con DSD a través de DoP utilizando sus salidas digitales. La salida USB también habría sido DoP y no había ningún plan para admitir DSD "nativo" a través de la salida USB.

 

 

No hay una actualización de hardware actualmente planificada para el Bridge. Si alguna vez hacemos una versión 2, proporcionaremos una ruta de actualización para los propietarios originales como hacemos con todos nuestros productos. También tenemos programas de actualización para pasar del Puente a otros productos en nuestra línea. Hable con su distribuidor para obtener más detalles.

 

Lamento que no hayamos podido hacer que la salida USB funcione, pero no fue por falta de esfuerzo. La salida de audio USB nunca se consideró como una función cuando el producto se especificó originalmente ya que el mercado pretendido era para los propietarios de productos dCS antiguos que querían agregar funcionalidad de transmisión a sus productos existentes. Como tal, el controlador USB nunca fue validado para este caso de uso cuando se eligió el hardware.

 

Nuestro estudio de viabilidad inicial fue prometedor, pero después de implementar la función encontramos algunos problemas con ciertas configuraciones de DAC. Nuestro desarrollador principal intentó corregir el problema volviendo a escribir grandes fragmentos del controlador del dispositivo para solucionar los problemas de hardware. Este fue un proceso largo que le impidió trabajar en otros proyectos y, aunque logró hacerlo funcionar en la mayoría de los casos, aún había algunos problemas menores que no podían corregirse en el software. En lugar de retrasar el desarrollo que beneficia a todos nuestros clientes a favor de una característica que beneficia a un pequeño número, decidimos seguir adelante.

 

A los gerentes de productos de sillón aquí les puedo asegurar que si se los coloca en el medio de esto, habrían tomado exactamente la misma decisión.

 

Si desea expresar sus inquietudes, opiniones o simplemente desahogar su frustración, le recomiendo encarecidamente que se comunique con dCS a través de nuestro sitio web, teléfono o correo electrónico.

 

 

 

 

I think this is a good place to let off steam