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8 hours ago, ken6217 said:

 

 

Whatever you’re smoking, I’ll take that instead. :)

 

US$3000 is what you would get for it at the most. 

Smoking : not at all. It is the price of excellence you are looking for. A fantastic device working perfectly as you mentioned. You should be able to buy to support your preferred brand that needs money for a second generation with better spec. 

Come on ... you need to support a bit instead of giving lessons every single post

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6 hours ago, Patatorz said:

Smoking : not at all. It is the price of excellence you are looking for. A fantastic device working perfectly as you mentioned. You should be able to buy to support your preferred brand that needs money for a second generation with better spec. 

Come on ... you need to support a bit instead of giving lessons every single post

 

My point was based on lot of buying and selling high end audio equipment over the years. What you think something is worth, as opposed to what someone is willing to pay (or market value) are rarely one and the same. I'm still wiping the vaseline off my a** from many transactions over the years that I made selling high end gear. The $3000 figure I mentioned was wha I was willing to pay.

 

How is a buyer of used equipment equate to supporting your preferred brand that needs money for a second generation with better spec?  The money is going to the seller of the used item, and not to the manufacturer.

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4 hours ago, Adyc said:

Very disappointing. I bought it on the hope of USB output. But anyway, can dCS put some energy of solving gapless issue with Jriver?

 

Can dCS disclose more on the new features planned for NB? 

Be ready to read that there is no gapless issue. Why they would spend time in solving an issue that is painful to identify and only few owners are facing. Selling MQA is much more important 

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I am being consistent. I never said anything about supporting the brand. I'll support a brand when they help to support me. :)

 

My only comments were me saying that the NWB sounds as good now as before it was announced there wasn't going to be a USB update, and that I wouldn't pay $4800 from you for a used unit.

 

I buy used whenever I can, especially because I like to try out different pieces in my system. Let the original buyer take the depreciation hit. 

 

Btw, I learned a long time ago, it is foolish to buy high end audio or video on the hopes that there is the promise of a future USB or HDMI solution or upgrade, and/or infinite upgradeability. I can think of three units that I owned right off the top of my head where this came into play from Levinson, Theta, and Meridian.

 

Anyway, no need to go back and forth. I know your frustration. I have been there before as mentioned above.

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5 hours ago, Adyc said:

Very disappointing. I bought it on the hope of USB output. But anyway, can dCS put some energy of solving gapless issue with Jriver?

 

I am truly sorry for your disappointment as I was looking forward to this feature as well.

 

There are (were) actually two gapless issues with JRiver. There's definitely an issue on our side dealing with gapless playback using third party control points. This issue has been logged and is one of many that will be address by the development project that was alluded to in the announcement I posted. This is getting fixed, but without pulling the plug on USB audio this is one of the many issues which would still be on hold pending developer time.

 

There was also an issue with JRiver not implementing the gapless commands correctly. I've been told that this one has been fixed, but I'm not certain.

 

5 hours ago, Adyc said:

Can dCS disclose more on the new features planned for NB?  

 

No. We learned a lesson with USB audio and that is no to make any sort of announcements or have any discussions of new features until they are close to release. Had we done that with USB audio this particular discussion wouldn't be taking place.

 

I can say that the bulk of our efforts over the coming months will be focused on fixing long-standing bugs and improving the overall stability and performance of our streaming platform. We have some new features planned but we're keeping quiet on those until we're close to release.

 

39 minutes ago, Patatorz said:

Be ready to read that there is no gapless issue. Why they would spend time in solving an issue that is painful to identify and only few owners are facing. Selling MQA is much more important 

 

I'm going to spell this out very clearly in the hope that people will take the time and effort to understand what I'm saying before hitting the keyboard.

 

Since December of last year the bulk of our development time and expense was dedicated to USB audio. There have been some additional minor projects, but it's pretty much been all USB all the time. Since April of this year our lead developer did nothing but work on USB audio. Part of the reason that we ceased development on the feature was that it was holding up new features and major bugfixes that impact all of our customers, not just the very small number of people looking for USB audio. This wasn't something where it got difficult and we gave up, rather we took the software side of it to the very end and exhausted all possible options before finally withdrawing the feature.

 

As a side note, the number of people requesting USB audio was about 1/10th the number of people requesting MQA. We spent far more money attempting to make USB audio work than we did on implementing the MQA components that run on our streaming platform. If we were as selfish and inconsiderate as you are implying we would have saved the money (10s of thousands of Euros) and stopped development back in January. We continued on because we had publicly confirmed availability of the feature before we knew there would be issues with implementation.

Programme Manager, Streaming Audio

Data Conversion Systems, Ltd

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26 minutes ago, ken6217 said:

I am being consistent. I never said anything about supporting the brand. I'll support a brand when they help to support me. :)

 

My only comments were me saying that the NWB sounds as good now as before it was announced there wasn't going to be a USB update, and that I wouldn't pay $4800 from you for a used unit.

 

I buy used whenever I can, especially because I like to try out different pieces in my system. Let the original buyer take the depreciation hit. 

 

Btw, I learned a long time ago, it is foolish to buy high end audio or video on the hopes that there is the promise of a future USB or HDMI solution or upgrade, and/or infinite upgradeability. I can think of three units that I owned right off the top of my head where this came into play from Levinson, Theta, and Meridian.

 

Anyway, no need to go back and forth. I know your frustration. I have been there before as mentioned above.

Thanks

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32 minutes ago, AMP said:

 

I am truly sorry for your disappointment as I was looking forward to this feature as well.

 

There are (were) actually two gapless issues with JRiver. There's definitely an issue on our side dealing with gapless playback using third party control points. This issue has been logged and is one of many that will be address by the development project that was alluded to in the announcement I posted. This is getting fixed, but without pulling the plug on USB audio this is one of the many issues which would still be on hold pending developer time.

 

There was also an issue with JRiver not implementing the gapless commands correctly. I've been told that this one has been fixed, but I'm not certain.

 

 

No. We learned a lesson with USB audio and that is no to make any sort of announcements or have any discussions of new features until they are close to release. Had we done that with USB audio this particular discussion wouldn't be taking place.

 

I can say that the bulk of our efforts over the coming months will be focused on fixing long-standing bugs and improving the overall stability and performance of our streaming platform. We have some new features planned but we're keeping quiet on those until we're close to release.

 

 

I'm going to spell this out very clearly in the hope that people will take the time and effort to understand what I'm saying before hitting the keyboard.

 

Since December of last year the bulk of our development time and expense was dedicated to USB audio. There have been some additional minor projects, but it's pretty much been all USB all the time. Since April of this year our lead developer did nothing but work on USB audio. Part of the reason that we ceased development on the feature was that it was holding up new features and major bugfixes that impact all of our customers, not just the very small number of people looking for USB audio. This wasn't something where it got difficult and we gave up, rather we took the software side of it to the very end and exhausted all possible options before finally withdrawing the feature.

 

As a side note, the number of people requesting USB audio was about 1/10th the number of people requesting MQA. We spent far more money attempting to make USB audio work than we did on implementing the MQA components that run on our streaming platform. If we were as selfish and inconsiderate as you are implying we would have saved the money (10s of thousands of Euros) and stopped development back in January. We continued on because we had publicly confirmed availability of the feature before we knew there would be issues with implementation.

 

Good to read you. Spending your money where you want is not a big issue for me as far as you think to your customers.

 

You were mentionning that you moved forward because you publicly confirmed this feature. So now you confirmed it will never happen, let’s be straightforward And come back to the reality : what do you propose to the customers who trusted you according to the usb functionality, people that invested in this product upon dCS recommendations ?

 

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22 minutes ago, AMP said:

We continued on because we had publicly confirmed availability of the feature before we knew there would be issues with implementation.

It's good to see the amount of effort you put into trying to deliver USB output.  It's disappointing you had to decommit, but I'm happy dCS stuck to its principles re product quality.  

 

I consider MQA implementation a total waste of R&D resources, so I'm glad it didn't take that much time.  I think you're primarily responding to MQA business development lobbying of your dealers and distributors.  I realize that your assessment is that there is real end user demand for MQA.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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1 minute ago, rickca said:

It's good to see the amount of effort you put into trying to deliver USB output.  It's disappointing you had to decommit, but I'm happy dCS stuck to its principles re product quality.  

 

I consider MQA implementation a total waste of R&D resources, so I'm glad it didn't take that much time.  I think you're primarily responding to MQA business development lobbying of your dealers and distributors.  I realize that your assessment is that there is real end user demand for MQA.

 

Future will tell about This heresie of MQA (just read archimago post on CA). Not sure that the voice of dealers and distributors are the same as the end customer. Discussing with few of these professional in France lead me to think that they understand nothing to MQA : it is just an additional feature. Time will tell

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15 minutes ago, Patatorz said:

what do you propose to the customers who trusted you according to the usb functionality, people that invested in this product upon dCS recommendations ?

 

Allow me to quote myself from the previous page.

 

18 hours ago, AMP said:

If you would like to voice your concerns, opinions, or simply vent your frustration then I strongly encourage you to contact dCS via our website, phone, or email.

 

If you feel like you were wronged by this and that dCS owes you something then reach out and contact us directly. I can answer questions here and provide information, but specific customer issues need to be taken up with dCS either directly or through your dealer.

 

If you just want to vent and call us names in a consequence-free environment then by all means, please continue.

Programme Manager, Streaming Audio

Data Conversion Systems, Ltd

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Running my issue through my dCS dealer, hoping it will be more effective.

 

Nevertheless I would like to share here my view on this issue on an as objective as possible way.

 

I believe that things are clear now from dCS side and at least I mislead myself (or as likely was mislead):

 

- The dCS NB was designed for existing dCS owners with older dacs.

- New clients out of the dCS then existing universe were lateral earnings.

 

Problem IS that NB's were sold to many clients out of the dCS ecossystem (I would love to understand how many NB owners do not have a dCS DAC - like myself).

 

These new clients are very likely like me people who do not - at least at this point  - the possibility to buy a dCS DAC and have to live with something else. In my case its an Auralic Vega that does NOT do DSD over anything else than an USB output. Most of the DACS out there are like this.

 

Therefore, for these "new" clients that entered the dCS world, USB is important and WAS announced it would come, as it is the ONLY way to play DSD with the NB. This is not a debate over the DSD virtues or lack of (or MQA for that matter), if people want to use one or the other its because they like to do so and its important to them.

 

For my own side, I still do not regret buying the NB, as it still was the best sound I have had had in my system, but I feel mislead on this situation. And mislead clients do not likely stay with the brand. I am a business developer and I am very sure of that.

 

I understand the financial decision behind dropping off USB - it is a financial one, not a technical, as you could always hire someone to do this specific job thus leaving the development team to go on doing the other stuff - but still feel that dCS should have behaved (much) better with these new clients.

 

Romao out.

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I think you summarized very well the picture. I fully agree on what you wrote.

 

i would just add that, according to information I received, I better understand the strategy of dCS. New features should come but more focus on dCS ecosystem owners and clearly I don’t think customers like you and me and really fitting to that (without opening the debate on dsd, MQA, etc..).

 

I already received a feedback from dCS but I think we misunderstood on some words. I will clarify today giving them few copies of emails pushing me to invest in a network bridge according to the near release of the USB audio. 

 

I was close to invest in a Rossini clock (more in the dCS ecosystem ? ) after few tests at home with the support of my great redeemer, but seems it is not going in the right way.

 

 

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I tried hard to find Streamer/Player of this kind on the market without implemented USB output but couldn’t find it. Please help me discover one. Hence, It makes my NB really special and unique!!!

Things move so fast and what ever ecosystem you belong someone will ask very soon for 256 or 512 DSD. And then what?!

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I bought the NB recently using its AES output to my Devialet 440 Pro and could not believe how much better it sounds compared to both USB connections and even direct Ethernet connection into for unit via Devialet Air/Roon.

 

To me USB was never intended to be an audio interface, all the various "D2D" flavour of the month USB interface boxes and cables indicate to me that USB is a flawed interface that requires a whole new industry of patchworks.

 

Luckily the Devialet supports DoP via both AES and SPDIF. 

 

My prior experience with owning a dCS DAC has all been positive, both with the hardware, their continuous support and upgradability.

 

I am sure that they have done everything they could to develop the USB interface into something that match their product quality.  And from my experience with the Debussy DAC I will not rule out that they may bundle a bunch of goodies and release a major hardware upgrade in the foreseeable future, at a reasonable price.  Unlike Devialet which view upgrade as another revenue opportunity.  

Macbook Pro/MacMini/dCS Debussy/Cambridge 650BD[br]Vitus Audio SS-010/Living Voice OBX-R2 Speakers/Ultrasone Edition 8 phones[br]Airport Express/Meridian AD88[br]

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44 minutes ago, agentsmith said:

To me USB was never intended to be an audio interface, all the various "D2D" flavour of the month USB interface boxes and cables indicate to me that USB is a flawed interface that requires a whole new industry of patchworks.

There are USB products on the market for which this isn't true. USB is like any other interface - it needs to be properly implemented. That many manufacturers don't properly implement it is a different issue.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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I'm a happy customer of NB, who bought it to get rid of USB. I'm fully aware of current limitation of NO USB output function, I can playback DSD 64 through AES DoP to my Devialet, and DSD 128 or above by down sampling to PCM. At the end I choose to playback DSD 64 by down sampling to PCM in Roon as well.

 

But I understand there is customer out there who planned to use NB differently, 

I have used other streamers with different DACs through USB before I came to NB. It's not uncommon that some streamer does not work well with some DAC, so I wonder how big the problem of dCS facing which prohibit them from releasing a feature which can't meet their standard.

 

I know some company will release this kind of firmware in beta format, where user can use it at own risk, and no official support if there is problem, and can only fallback to official firmware.

 

If this can ease large percentage of user complain here, and both user and dCS can accept this kind of Eco system, will this worth consideration?

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