Replace KEF LS50's with floor standing...

[Blake]

Disclaimer: I've never heard an LS50, just a small observation......

 

With that out of the way, given all the praise and glowing professional reviews, it is surprising how many of them you see for sale in the used market.

[MikeJazz]

What are your complaints regarding the LS50's performance?

 

Or are you looking for a similar sound?

 

I find the MA sound overly bright and forward...

Don't know about the Tannoys, have only listened to a couple of models of the Prestige range.

 

R

 

I agree. Move from KEF to a MA on the silver line is an aggression to the senses...

[MikeJazz]

It's hard to explain but I just find them lacking and not just in bass. On acoustic music they are amazing but anything with a bit of complexity or rock they start to struggle.

 

 

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You could try to find a pair of used Evolution Acoustics MM Micro One Monitors.

They will certainly play very composed with complex material.

They have a delicious and quick sound (great tweeter), so it's really like a nice improvement on the KEF's.

 

I could live with them...

[hornytoad]

Disclaimer: I've never heard an LS50, just a small observation......

 

With that out of the way, given all the praise and glowing professional reviews, it is surprising how many of them you see for sale in the used market.

 

They are very very good speakers and are better than many 5-12k speakers I have heard .

The big problem is they are very finicky with partnering equipment , particularly amps .

 

I think there are many who get frustrated with this and give up .

 

That would be my reasoning on the reason for so many available in the used market

[17629v2]

Disclaimer: I've never heard an LS50, just a small observation......

 

With that out of the way, given all the praise and glowing professional reviews, it is surprising how many of them you see for sale in the used market.

 

Reviews sell speakers. The more speakers sold, the more you find on the used market. Also, if you check the number of units sold new and compare it to the number of units sold used, the ratio may be lower than average. It may not look that way because you happen to see more units in numbers offered for sale.

[semente]

Reviews sell speakers. The more speakers sold, the more you find on the used market. Also, if you check the number of units sold new and compare it to the number of units sold used, the ratio may be lower than average. It may not look that way because you happen to see more units in numbers offered for sale.

I have also come across several used LS50s and although people are ditching them, I don't know why they're doing it.

Small standmounts have inherent performance limitations which people might have wished to overcome or perhaps they didn't like the sound in the long run...

 

R

[charlesphoto]

Here's a reply I made earlier on the Naim forum about the Ls50's. Loving my Rega RX3's so that should be a strong contender for you to demo. Haven't like Rega so much in the past but these are a lot different speaker. Got mine as factory seconds (not a blemish i can see) for $1300 so that helped.

 

Ls50's are very room dependent. I couldn't have speakers more than a few inches from the wall in our living room. The Ls50's were magical on some things, and rendered others virtually unplayable. The RX3's I replaced them with aren't as magical, but much more forgiving and better all around-er.

That said, I got my Ls50 that my daughter knocked over back from repair. I was going to sell them, but since I would have to take such a major loss due to cosmetics, I decided to put them in an actual bookcase in the office, along with my UQ1 that I was also going to sell at a major loss, and I have to say they sound fantastic (but now what do I do with the office Mu-so?). They don't need to fill a room per se, so perfect for the UQ in that respect. Otherwise I think they demand/respect a much more powerful amp and to be away from walls.

 

 

[witchdoctor]

If I were buying tower speakers today I would make sure to talk to the guys at Tekton Design before making a final decision.

Their Open Baffle speakers are offered at a nice discount:

 

Tekton Design Lore

 

and their Pendragons are another model to inquire about:

 

Tekton Design Pendragon

[beerandmusic]

What is the budget?

 

Personally I find Paradigm and B&W are great speakers great bang for the buck...especially if you go used.

I can't speak first hand but totems get great reviews too...they were next on my list to play with before I fell in love with B&W.

[Music Matters]

Likely above your target budget ... but I'd check out the PMC Twenty23 (or the newer but more expensive Twenty5.23) for a compact floor standing speaker.

 

Has brilliant bass and happy close to rear wall.

 

I agree with Eloise, I've heard the Twenty5.23 at Munich HIFI show, and that speaker is amazing!

[mac_and_dac]

You can add a subwoofer and alleviate the LS50's of much of the load by crossing over at 100 hz or even better at 120 hz.

 

I ran LS50's with a Rel G2 sub, crossed over at 80Hz. It definitely improved matters.

 

Having said that, moving to good quality floor-standing speakers took my hifi completely into another league from a SQ perspective. I've got Kudos speakers, which are quite similar in character to the PMC floor-standers mentioned already in this thread. What surprised me about the upgrade was how much more refined the top end became in my rig.

 

FWIW, my listening room is around 16' by 16'.

[dmormerod]

Thanks so much everyone for the replies, lots of food for thought.

 

I just saw the comment about Elac buying AudioAlchemy so maybe I should check out some Andrew Jones speakers

 

 

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[hornytoad]

Thanks so much everyone for the replies, lots of food for thought.

 

I just saw the comment about Elac buying AudioAlchemy so maybe I should check out some Andrew Jones speakers

 

 

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I have a pair of Unifi B5's . For the money they are very good but I don't think they are Kef ls50 killers .

[Confused]

Disclaimer: I've never heard an LS50, just a small observation......

 

With that out of the way, given all the praise and glowing professional reviews, it is surprising how many of them you see for sale in the used market.

Probably a combination of things, glowing reviews leads to people buying on spec, impulse buying etc, plus all the reasons mentioned by others in earlier posts. Having said that, I would say the main reason is that they did apparently sell in huge numbers, so more sold new quite simply means more available second hand.

[davide256]

Probably a combination of things, glowing reviews leads to people buying on spec, impulse buying etc, plus all the reasons mentioned by others in earlier posts. Having said that, I would say the main reason is that they did apparently sell in huge numbers, so more sold new quite simply means more available second hand.

 

The nice thing about your speakers is that they are portable. I wouldn't give up on them. Instead find a dealer who will let you bring them in and hear them with a powered sub-woofer and different amplifiers. My suspicion is that (a) you need to offload the bass below 60hz to clean up your midrange (b) the amp you have doesn't mate well with the crossover in the LS50. If you have a 12x12 or smaller listening room I suspect the KEF's were a good choice. Had some KEF bookshelf speakers many years ago, was very impressed.

[hornytoad]

What is the budget?

 

Personally I find Paradigm and B&W are great speakers great bang for the buck...especially if you go used.

I can't speak first hand but totems get great reviews too...they were next on my list to play with before I fell in love with B&W.

 

Had some Paradigm Studio 100's and they were not as good as the Kef Ls50's . Maybe a little better on the low end at low volume .

[rfj1862]

I'm thinking of swapping out my KEF LS50's for a pair of floor standing speakers. My initial thoughts are around the Monitor Audio Silver 8's, Tannoy XT6F or XT8F. My room is only 13x14 so I'm not sure if the XT8F's in particular will be too big!

 

Anyone have any experience of either? Both the MA's & the Tannoy's get great reviews in Stereophile & AbsoluteSound. I'm looking to set some demo's up but any additional feedback is welcome. I realize speakers can be system dependent and I'll be driving these with an AudioAlchemy DDP-1, DPA-1 combo.

 

TIA

 

I have Monitor Audio Gold 300s. Not very impressed, they are quite bright and lacking in bass for a relatively large speaker. Definitely an "audiophile" speaker in the pejorative sense.

 

And really, you're not going to fix your hankering for a floor-standing speaker by changing cables. Save that money and buy a good speaker and/or a powered sub. You can cross over the sub using Fmod attenuators if you are so inclined.

 

I love the Tannoy Heritage models--they are extremely impressive; I have no experience with the models you are proposing.

 

I have Lipinski L-707 monitors/2 powered subs/DEQX/McIntosh MC275 combo for my office system and it is quite adequate for my need.

[beerandmusic]

Maybe a little better on the low end at low volume .

That's usually why people go from bookshelf to towers....i would say the v3 have SIGNIFICANT more bottom end and overall dynamic range....the v5's not so much...but i definetly would go with B&W over Paradigm...You can find great deals on 7nt 9nt 704 804 just depending on the budget, if willing to consider used market.

[hornytoad]

That's usually why people go from bookshelf to towers....i would say the v3 have SIGNIFICANT more bottom end and overall dynamic range....the v5's not so much...but i definetly would go with B&W over Paradigm...You can find great deals on 7nt 9nt 704 804 just depending on the budget, if willing to consider used market.

 

Yep but the Kef ls50's are still a better speaker at half the price .

[bunno77]

If you are happy with your amp and like ls50 signature but want more bass and a step up on everything else get kef r300 but I would get a better amp.

 

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[Bluedroog]

It's hard to explain but I just find them lacking and not just in bass. On acoustic music they are amazing but anything with a bit of complexity or rock they start to struggle.

 

I can't help thinking going for active studio monitors would suit you. Speakers driven by specifically chosen amplifiers for each drive unit tend to have far better control of the bass meaning you'll get nuances of detail even in the bass rather than vague bass. The active cross overs also tend to favour a more detailed sound which is exactly what they're designed to offer, allowing a clear window on the music, complex passages are less prone to get lost.

 

 

I swapped out my passives for Event Opals which have proved an excellent purchase. The cabinets are tank like in build quality, cast from aluminium and curved designed to minimise cabinet colouration. They are superbly dynamic, big pretty deep for 2 way speakers (Claude Von Stoke mixed Who's Afraid of Detroit using Opals) and will play extremely loudly (if that's your thing) without distortion.

 

Of course there is no need for a power amp being active. I currently use mine with a Croft 25 valve pre-amp and it works really well but have experimented with passive pre-amps and have loved the results, I'm looking to try a Tortuga LDR or Hattor passive now.

[dmormerod]

The reason I swapped to the AudioAlchemy from the Rega was for more umph! The Brio-r definitely ran out of steam and the AudioAlchemy is overall more powerful. So maybe I should switch to the AA mono-blocks for even more power to get the best out of the KEFs! Looks like I have some demoing to do!!

 

 

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[TubeLover]

I can't help thinking going for active studio monitors would suit you. Speakers driven by specifically chosen amplifiers for each drive unit tend to have far better control of the bass meaning you'll get nuances of detail even in the bass rather than vague bass. The active cross overs also tend to favour a more detailed sound which is exactly what they're designed to offer, allowing a clear window on the music, complex passages are less prone to get lost.

 

 

 

 

I swapped out my passives for Event Opals which have proved an excellent purchase. The cabinets are tank like in build quality, cast from aluminium and curved designed to minimise cabinet colouration. They are superbly dynamic, big pretty deep for 2 way speakers (Claude Von Stoke mixed Who's Afraid of Detroit using Opals) and will play extremely loudly (if that's your thing) without distortion.

 

Of course there is no need for a power amp being active. I currently use mine with a Croft 25 valve pre-amp and it works really well but have experimented with passive pre-amps and have loved the results, I'm looking to try a Tortuga LDR or Hattor passive now.

 

I would agree with you in a number of categories but given that the OP already has LS50's, he has moved beyond this. Active monitors have their place, but with the exception of some extremely expensive options he is already exceeded this category. There is a point where it is clear that active power amps, and even high quality preamps are in another category.

 

JC

[Bluedroog]

I know the LS50 are very sensitive to what is upstream of them and no doubt they can perform above what you might expect treated with some good amplification. That said given what OP describes and talk of floorstanders I suspect he'll still be looking for more than the LS50s. Good speakers as they are I think they may not be the best fit for OP. Sure he's got them already and he could get more out of them but trading them in might be the smart move in this case.

 

I know the reluctance, I spent a couple years getting my system upgraded with a nice pre and power amp combo with a view to getting some nice stand mounts such as PMC Twenty 22 and ended up selling my amp and going for the Opals. I don't regret it one bit.

[Ajax]

I went though the process of selecting an amp for the KEF L50s when I was helping my nephew set up his system for his new house. We ended up with the 100 watt Nuprime ida - 8 ($US1k) suggested previously, which is really a power DAC and very cost effective gear. We been very happy with its performance and the process we went through is well documented in a previous CA thread started at the beginning of the year.

 

http://www.nuprimeaudio.com/index.php/products/amplifiers-and-preamps/integrated-amps/ida-8.html

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/what-source-and-amplification-would-you-use-drive-kef-ls50-speakers-27337/

 

Personally I think the LS50s are a stunning speaker and in your situation I would persist with experimenting with a variety of amps, especially those acknowledged as being capable of driving difficult loads, e.g. I recently purchased a 400W One UP 500DM ST Amplifier from Nord (with the hype Ncore modules and Sonic Imagery 994 Op Amps) for about US$2k and it is outstanding driving my ATC SCM 19 speakers.

 

Hypex Amps, Abrahamsen Audio, IPL Acoustic Speakers

 

I would also seriously consider a sub(s) such as the SVS SB2000 .... take advantage of their free home trials that are being offered. You would obviously need to experiment but in the case of ida-8 I I would run a low line level from the sub output into the sub and set the cross over at around 80Hz. In my experience removing the lows from bookshelf speakers and directing them to a sub greatly improves the overall listening experience, not just the base, but the whole frequency range.

 

This will also take load off the amp and the ida - 8 combined with a SVS SB 2000 sub (preferably 2) is not an expensive solution (if you can sell your other gear) and I believe will solve your problem and I would be surprised if it did not sound stunning.

 

If you do decide to add a sub check this out:

 

Soundoctor - all about subs

 

Good luck,

 

 

Ajax