Poll: Do design aesthetics matter to you for audio?

[mav52]

While everybody likes to own nice things, and if you compare Dan D'agostino's beautiful power amp or dCS' lovely digital components with Van Alstine's plain-jane equipment or Schiit's no nonsense "test-equipment" cosmetics, you have to take into a account that the level of fit and finish that we all ooh and ahh over can make up more than half the cost of manufacturing the component, and thus the price you and I pay for it. Case in point: The D'agostino Momentum 250S stereo power amp is 250 W/pc at $30,000 with it's fancy (and lovely) casework, but for $12,000, one can buy the D'agostino Classic Stereo amp with 300W/pc and a rather plain (but still well made ) rack-mount case. IOW, less than half the cost and more power That fancy case is very expensive to make and very expensive to buy. I'd almost guarantee that nobody could tell the difference between them in any kind of listening test you can imagine. Now I'm not saying that people shouldn't spend that more than the double the price for the bling if that's what they want, I'm just showing that most high-end gear could be much, much less expensive if the same circuits were housed in more modest casework and it could be done without sacrificing one iota of real build quality or performance. I suspect that's how Schiit can offer so much audio performance for so little money while manufacturing their line of equipment right here in the USA rather than in a Chinese sweatshop!

 

Flat agree. Fit and finish beautiful to look at, but it would be interesting to know how much of the R&D, engineering and manufacturing cost just went into making the amp look "beautiful" for that eye candy effect. What percentage of the cost was just the performance of the amp itself. That would be interesting to know vs the same internals housed in a milled silver looking aluminum box.

[k6davis]

While sound quality is the first second and third consideration, aesthetics matter a lot to me too. I am drawn to audio technology that is outside the norm, like Lampizator DAC's, Magnepan speakers, nCore amps, dual music servers, etc. So that limits my flexibility when it comes to choosing aesthetically, but interestingly, I find myself learning to love the appearance of pieces I love the sound of.

 

And of course, I like their physical arrangement in my rack to be functional and aesthetically pleasing.

 

On the other hand, I've had some gear that was gorgeous to the eye, but wound up only sounding okay. I got rid of those pieces asap.

[sdolezalek]

While sound quality is the first second and third consideration, aesthetics matter a lot to me too. I am drawn to audio technology that is outside the norm, like Lampizator DAC's, Magnepan speakers, nCore amps, dual music servers, etc. So that limits my flexibility when it comes to choosing aesthetically, but interestingly, I find myself learning to love the appearance of pieces I love the sound of.

/QUOTE]

 

People tend to shy away from Magnepan's due to their physical size, but if you are into a sleeker more modern aesthetic, they can blend in quite nicely:

[Allan F]

People tend to shy away from Magnepan's due to their physical size, but if you are into a sleeker more modern aesthetic, they can blend in quite nicely.

The size problem that make Maggies impractical for many is due to the width of the speakers. My living room, for example, is too narrow to accommodate them and leave enough room between the speakers.

[wgscott]

I'd just like to put in a good word for coffin-shaped speakers. The shape of my speakers doesn't bother me as much as the color, which reminds me of Miami Beach in the 1960s. Still and all, they sound so good I'm more than willing to tolerate the somewhat kitschy statement they make.

 

As far as the boxes go, my approach is that if they're all black, they'll go together and look great with any decor.

 

I'm all about design, but hey, form follows function.

 

--David

 

 

"Never get out of the boat." Absolutely goddamn right! Unless you were goin' all the way...

 

[Allan F]

Avalons do the coffin thing quite well too:

 

[crenca]

I voted No, I don't care if the sound is coming from cardboard boxes!" but I really wanted to vote for something inbetween this and "somewhat"...

 

However, when it comes down to it the wife has more say than I really want to admit. That said, I just don't think she accepts anything audio no matter how beautiful because it still does not really make sense to her

[STC]

I too voted No. I want high fidelity and most of my serious listening done in dimly light room. But for some High End is more of a lifestyle rather than high fidelity.

[lucretius]

I'm just showing that most high-end gear could be much, much less expensive if the same circuits were housed in more modest casework and it could be done without sacrificing one iota of real build quality or performance.

 

I have no evidence, but if luxury audio goods are anything like other luxury goods, price is not based on cost.

[gmgraves]

I too voted No. I want high fidelity and most of my serious listening done in dimly light room. But for some High End is more of a lifestyle rather than high fidelity.

 

+1

[orgel]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26447[/ATTACH]

 

The yellow is a little tough to integrate into most color schemes. Mine are the delightfully tacky champagne beige.

 

 

(That's a Series 3 in the photo, but the color is pretty well rendered.)

 

I don't want to turn people off to Wilsons — they really do have some nice colors (and they can do custom colors), but I got mine used, so I got what I got.

 

—David

[semente]

I really wanted to vote for something inbetween this and "somewhat"...

 

Same here.

Ended voting "somewhat".

 

I would probably never buying any colourful or white speakers (unless they were really small, in which case I wouldn't buy them because of their size) and if I did, I'd have them painted.

I don't like gold in electronics either...

 

R

[lucretius]

Hey, I think I still have one of these vacuum tubed Sansui receivers stashed in the basement somewhere.

 

Sansui 1000A | Classic Receivers

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26439[/ATTACH]

 

Seems a couple of the necessary small signal tubes were weird types I couldn't find.

 

Of course when I realized some of the caps needed replacing in this rat's nest I found other projects to work on.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26440[/ATTACH]

 

I intended to build a new amp around the xfmr's, but it ended up one of many un-finished projects.

 

Wow! While beautiful on the outside, it sure is ugly on the inside!

[sbank]

Yeah, agree that the poll might have benefitted from a choice between "cardboard boxes" and "somewhat". If it sounds great and looks anywhere from utilitarian to gorgeous, that will work. Agree that too many items put more of their cost into looks vs. performance. Some of the more extreme design choices completely eliminate the item from consideration for me (i.e. Cabasse "Eyeball" speakers, Vivid K series).

 

I've gotten lucky in having an understanding wife who is totally cool about me getting whatever I want. When I recently purchased a pair of Soundlabs at over 6ft tall, she just laughed and nicknamed them "The Twin Towers". Their looks are surprisingly natural in the room.

[gmgraves]

I have no evidence, but if luxury audio goods are anything like other luxury goods, price is not based on cost.

 

I don't know about luxury goods like jewelry or designer clothes, but things like cars and high-end audio equipment, high-end furniture, etc., price is, indeed based on cost. I once had the opportunity to take a guided tour of the Ferrari factory in Maranello, Italy. At the time, my lovely lady guide told me that a Ferrari selling for US$250K, for instance, costs about a third of that, or about US$85K to manufacture. Ferrari delivers the car to it's distributors for about twice that amount and distributor and dealer markup is another ~US$85K. The standard formula for setting the retail price of most durable goods is that the selling price should be 6X the manufacturing price. Most High-end audio manufacturers don't have that much markup on their products. The small, high-end audio company that I do some tech writing for sells an integrated amplifier for US$12K. I happen to know that it cost this company $5K to make the thing. Dealer cost is $8K and they get $4K profit when they sell to the customer. IOW, the markups aren't that much, in terms of percent. One reason for this deviation from the standard retail formula is that the distribution chain is much shorter for goods of this type (manufacturer - dealer - customer) and the volume is low. The manufacturer is not shipping hundreds or thousands of finished good at a time, just onesies and twosies via UPS or other similar carrier.

[gmgraves]

Wow! While beautiful on the outside, it sure is ugly on the inside!

 

 

Wow, that Sansui is really old with it's point-to-point wiring. It might not be visually attractive, but that type of wiring sure makes it easier to modify, upgrade and change-out failed parts (like aging capacitors).

[gmgraves]

Yeah, agree that the poll might have benefitted from a choice between "cardboard boxes" and "somewhat". If it sounds great and looks anywhere from utilitarian to gorgeous, that will work. Agree that too many items put more of their cost into looks vs. performance. Some of the more extreme design choices completely eliminate the item from consideration for me (i.e. Cabasse "Eyeball" speakers, Vivid K series).

 

I've gotten lucky in having an understanding wife who is totally cool about me getting whatever I want. When I recently purchased a pair of Soundlabs at over 6ft tall, she just laughed and nicknamed them "The Twin Towers". Their looks are surprisingly natural in the room.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26461[/ATTACH]

 

Lucky you! Those are great speakers!

[master]

Wow! While beautiful on the outside, it sure is ugly on the inside!

 

It's not just looks, but also performance.

 

I've been through a few vintage amps and for one their performance is above par compared to today's amps and AVRs. For starters I've a vintage Sony amp from 1978/79 and it takes all of 2 or 3 max on the volume knob (out of a max 10) to push my speakers and actually flood the room with music. Anything higher is approaching at least partial deafness or at the very least numbness and ringing in the ears and I've never gone beyond 5. I don't have the specs or the manual and could not even find it online or on HFE, but the person I bought it from said it was rated at 15-18 wpc RMS.

 

Compare that to my Onkyo AVR, claims 300 watts, but out of a max 80 on the volume control I usually listen at 45-55, and need to hit 65 if I really want it a little bit loud.

 

And its not just the volume or loudness, there is less distortion, the sound is cleaner, more details, better blacks, etc. I'm not saying today's amps don't put out that kind of performance. They do, but only beyond a certain budget and that precludes most of the mid-fi stuff from the likes of Yamaha, NAD, CA, etc. You really need to go into the $2000 and more amplifier territory.

 

And then there is the question of today's equipment lasting 40 years and performing.

 

Like clockwork all of my smartphones start to fail at the 3 or 4 year mark. Ditto for smart TVs and the rest of the electronics.

[gstanley75]

Yesss. I have a beautiful 120 year old cherry wood armoire and I hide all my stereo equipment inside that beautifully designed cabinet. Result, 33 years of peaceful marriage. [emoji3]

[gmgraves]

Yesss. I have a beautiful 120 year old cherry wood armoire and I hide all my stereo equipment inside that beautifully designed cabinet. Result, 33 years of peaceful marriage. [emoji3]

 

"Peaceful marriage"? Is there really such a thing these days? From my observations, there isn't, but if you truly have one, then you, sir are a rare and lucky man!

 

George "Kingfish" Stevens to his bachelor friend, and fellow lodge brother, Andrew H. Brown: "Ya know, Andy, marriage is a wonderful institution. It's just too bad that there's gotta be a woman messed up in the thing somewhere!"

 

(I'm a mysogamistic cynic)

 

But back to audio. Aren't you afraid that your components might get too hot in a cabinet like that? I've a friend who does the same thing. He has had nothing but trouble with his VTL equipment from lack of proper ventilation. If you haven't done it, make sure that your equipment isn't overheating in there!

[esldude]

But back to audio. Aren't you afraid that your components might get too hot in a cabinet like that? I've a friend who does the same thing. He has had nothing but trouble with his VTL equipment from lack of proper ventilation. If you haven't done it, make sure that your equipment isn't overheating in there!

 

Yes, arrange for a quiet slow turning computer case fan to be used to pull air into it. Maybe case fan up high on the rear blowing outward.

[wgscott]

The yellow is a little tough to integrate into most color schemes.

—David

 

I agree. Forget integration.

 

I think if I was to put those in my living room, I would have to go all the way. Break with the whole F- program. Bold colors that don't integrate with anything.

[lucretius]

... The standard formula for setting the retail price of most durable goods is that the selling price should be 6X the manufacturing price. Most High-end audio manufacturers don't have that much markup on their products. The small, high-end audio company that I do some tech writing for sells an integrated amplifier for US$12K. I happen to know that it cost this company $5K to make the thing. Dealer cost is $8K and they get $4K profit when they sell to the customer. IOW, the markups aren't that much, in terms of percent. One reason for this deviation from the standard retail formula is that the distribution chain is much shorter for goods of this type (manufacturer - dealer - customer) and the volume is low. The manufacturer is not shipping hundreds or thousands of finished good at a time, just onesies and twosies via UPS or other similar carrier.

 

Re the first sentence, where does that come from?

 

As for the markups in the example, its 60% for the manufacturer and 50% for the dealer; or taken together, the markup is 140% over manufacturing cost. I don't think this is normal outside the luxury markets.

[gmgraves]

Re the first sentence, where does that come from?

 

As for the markups in the example, its 60% for the manufacturer and 50% for the dealer; or taken together, the markup is 140% over manufacturing cost. I don't think this is normal outside the luxury markets.

 

It's a rule of thumb in manufacturing, and it's been around for pretty much ever. I learned about it in a high school economics class.

 

The numbers I quoted are real. Obviously if there is a distributor in the chain, the cost distribution will be different.

[lucretius]

It's a rule of thumb in manufacturing, and it's been around for pretty much ever. I learned about it in a high school economics class.

 

The numbers I quoted are real. Obviously if there is a distributor in the chain, the cost distribution will be different.

 

I find that rule of thumb suspect. I've seen various economic studies of mark-ups for various industries -- the markups are generally much lower. You may be able to google a paper or two published on the Internet.

 

Here is one link (I'm sure there are others):

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/scpwps/ecbwp856.pdf