Raidho c1.1 vs. Josheph Audio Pulsars vs. Harbeth 30.1M vs. Focal Diablo III vs. ?

[johndoe21ro]

I've just been reading a couple of reviews of the C1.1.

It's annoying that one has to read between the lines but it appears they produce an "analytical" sound with little "soundstage" (which is not surprising considering that the dispersion of a ribbon tweeter is usually very directional).

Mentions of "speed" also seem to point to a "lean" sound (which will sound "leaner" at lower volumes).

 

Considering the very high price tag (for what the topology can offer in terms of performance) and your requirements I wouldn't get a pair before listening.

 

R

 

Your technique of reading through the lines is pretty awkward! As Priaptor said there are no such attributes to claim for those Raidhos. Their soundstage is amazingly huge and the limited dispersion of the ribbon tweeter is related to the vertical axis not the horizontal one! Speed is one of the best you can find if your amplification, source and cables also help in this direction. It's very wise to read correctly between the lines or to go and have a listen for yourself. There's no review out there like your review!

[semente]

it's interesting you say that. I had a dealer trying to convince me to drive to his showroom (1hr drive) to demo these because they were anything but forward.

 

I also found the Focals I listened to on the "bright" side.

 

R

[semente]

Your technique of reading through the lines is pretty awkward! As Priaptor said there are no such attributes to claim for those Raidhos. Their soundstage is amazingly huge and the limited dispersion of the ribbon tweeter is related to the vertical axis not the horizontal one! Speed is one of the best you can find if your amplification, source and cables also help in this direction. It's very wise to read correctly between the lines or to go and have a listen for yourself. There's no review out there like your review!

 

Unfortunately I could not find any measurements but at this level "speed" is most probably a frequency response aberration, as "tight" bass.

 

R

[MikeJazz]

that's what I've been told, c1.1 are a bit easier to drive. what is your amp?

 

lyngdorf tdai2200, a dac/amp.

[sjohnson]

Hello,

 

I am looking to upgrade my office monitors (KEF LS50s). Looking for more refined less forward sound. Based on various conversations with dealers and researching pro reviews, i've narrowed it down to Raidho c1.1, Joseph Audio Pulsars, Harbeth 30.1M, and Focal Diablo III. My amp is Pass Labs INT60. I listen to digital only in a relatively small room. Unfortunately, i don't have the luxury to demo all these (only Focal & maybe Raidho).

 

My questions are:

 

1. Does anyone have any experience with the above speakers paired with pass labs' warmer sound?

2. Should i be considering a different monitor?

3. Are any of the above speakers absolutely phenomenal and if not paired well with pass, it's worth trading the amp for something that does.

 

All input is much appreciated!

 

 

I have not heard the other options you listed but having the JA Pulsars for the last year and a half I could not be happier. I run mine with the Modwright KWA 150SE amp. I've had them in a small room with wood floor over a crawl space and now have them in a medium room with 10 ft ceilings on concrete/saltillo tile with great results. Even though not full range they extend well and provide a very coherent bottom to top presentation with high clarity/resolution and non fatiguing ease. With these anything done to improve (or inadvertently degrade for that matter) the front end comes through in spades. I hit a high performing and stable/solid point with my LPS powered drives and computer to a usb dac and for quite awhile now have been enjoying the system as is at "its set, so forget it" point. Other than one prior tweek to the speaker stands and once dialed in position-wise in the room it's been the Pulsars that have been the stable set them/forget them center point of my system. Anyway, you may have the budget for the Raidhos but if you do get a chance it's definitely worth an audition of the Pulsars.

 

Also, I've had the KEF LS50s and as good as they are for the money the Pulsars are easily a magnitude better.

 

Best,

 

Steve

[Priaptor]

I have not heard the other options you listed but having the JA Pulsars for the last year and a half I could not be happier. I run mine with the Modwright KWA 150SE amp. I've had them in a small room with wood floor over a crawl space and now have them in a medium room with 10 ft ceilings on concrete/saltillo tile with great results. Even though not full range they extend well and provide a very coherent bottom to top presentation with high clarity/resolution and non fatiguing ease. With these anything done to improve (or inadvertently degrade for that matter) the front end comes through in spades. I hit a high performing and stable/solid point with my LPS powered drives and computer to a usb dac and for quite awhile now have been enjoying the system as is at "its set, so forget it" point. Other than one prior tweek to the speaker stands and once dialed in position-wise in the room it's been the Pulsars that have been the stable set them/forget them center point of my system. Anyway, you may have the budget for the Raidhos but if you do get a chance it's definitely worth an audition of the Pulsars.

 

Also, I've had the KEF LS50s and as good as they are for the money the Pulsars are easily a magnitude better.

 

Best,

 

Steve

 

The manufacturer of those gorgeous speakers, which I have yet to hear, are not far from where my main speakers, NOLA, are made. That region spawned some great speaker manufacturers and I personally would love to give them a listen.

 

While there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat, I think the common thread among all well made stand mounted monitors is obvious and it all boils down to taste and budget. There is one exception and that is the Magico Q1 which acts more like a dynamic full range speaker than a stand mounted monitor and IMHO does neither as good as the alternatives.

[mordante]

I have different Raidho models, X2, X3, D1, D3, XT2 D2, etc if I remember correctly. If I were you I'd forget about the C series. IMHO the X(T) or D series are better bang for buck.

 

Personally I might not by them at all, even if I had the money. Do not get me wrong, Raidho builds some of the best speakers in the world. Dynamic, lost of detail and brutally honest. If you have some parts in your audio chain that are not up to par the Raidho's will let you know.

 

Also I like to be fooled a little. I prefer speakers that colour a little. I have many bad recordings, a speaker that is a bit more romantic will make those recordings more enjoyable. However if you have a great audio set good recordings I doubt there are many speakers that will beat a Raidho for its price class.

[tboooe]

 

Also I like to be fooled a little. I prefer speakers that colour a little. I have many bad recordings, a speaker that is a bit more romantic will make those recordings more enjoyable.

 

I am with you on this...which is why I went with the Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers. They just have bit of magic and warmth to them that makes vocals and wind/brass instruments sound so lovely to me. Some people may not prefer this and believe the SF color the music but even so I would rather listen in blissful ingorance for hours and hours.

[Dr Tone]

it's interesting you say that. I had a dealer trying to convince me to drive to his showroom (1hr drive) to demo these because they were anything but forward.

 

You showing up increases the odds of him selling some to you.

[udis]

A sincere thanks to all the members who have posted their impressions/inputs. the latest comments on coloring the music versus a brutally honest presentation really helped shape my direction. I am going to forego the focals and make more of an effort to demo the raidhos. I tend to lean towards honest sound.

[TubeLover]

I am with you on this...which is why I went with the Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers. They just have bit of magic and warmth to them that makes vocals and wind/brass instruments sound so lovely to me. Some people may not prefer this and believe the SF color the music but even so I would rather listen in blissful ingorance for hours and hours.

 

My congratulations on your superb speakers. Assuming the right amplification, I would happily listen along with you!

 

JC

[semente]

A sincere thanks to all the members who have posted their impressions/inputs. the latest comments on coloring the music versus a brutally honest presentation really helped shape my direction. I am going to forego the focals and make more of an effort to demo the raidhos. I tend to lean towards honest sound.

 

I have found that what most people (pro reviewers included) describe as "brutally honest" is usually a synonym of "bright and analytical" and not of "transparency" or accurate reproduction of the recorded signal.

The causes can be traced to the tweeter being 2dB or more to hot and/or distortion in the upper-mids due to the inadequate low-passing of the mid or mid-woofer.

 

I've just had a look at measurements of the SF Guaneri Evolution it's definitely a speaker that I would add to a shortlist if I were into small two-way speakers.

I still think that the Harbeths are the way to go, though.

 

R

[Orko]

As the owner of Harbeth 30.1s myself, I cannot recommend them enough. Fabulous speakers.

[sisyphus]

I have owned the Raidho D2 and currently own the D3 and very tall D5 speakers. I would urge you to hear the Pass on the C1.1's to see if the Pass amp is to your liking with the C1.1.

 

Raidho speakers sound best with a very fast neutral amp IMHO and to my ears. Amps with a higher damping factor are a plus too.

 

Raidho used to demo their show with Jeff Rowland and Constellation. Today they use use their self-samed manufactured amps -- Aavik.

 

FWIW I use soulution electronics to get the best out of my Raidho's.

 

I have heard the D5's in other people's residences played with Burmester and Accuphase with great results.

[ecwl]

For OP, I have heard most of the speakers albeit paired with different electronics in the past. Mainly because I used have a Paradigm Signature S2 and I thought if my speakers were to break or if I want to upgrade, what should I get. And even now, I'd like to know in a contingency plan, like if I run out of money and my Dynaudio C1's break, what should I buy to replace them (probably KEF LS50...)

 

Obviously, you're essentially asking for my taste which would be different than yours. I really don't like Harbeth. But the rest of the speakers would all be upgrades for you I think. I have listened to Raidho D1 but not C1.1. The issue is that they're such small speakers, I find that there is more mid-bass distortion to my liking. Joseph Audio Pulsars are not as efficient as the Focal Diablo but should be fine in a small room. You're dealing with really different speakers, one with a softer sounding tweeter and the other with the berylium tweeter. Both would sound great. I think in a small room, you can choose either. You can also consider Dynaudio C1 which would be a slightly different sound. Focal, Joseph Audio and Dynaudio are very neutral speakers, as in fairly flat frequency response. If you can demo the Focal, just demo the Focal. If you like it, you won't regret getting it over Joseph Audio or Dynaudio.

 

Whether you should consider a different monitor is a different issue. Law of diminishing return starts to apply as you go more and more expensive. And none of us know whether you're unhappy with the current sound because of room acoustic issues or because there is not enough bass from the KEF (in which case just get subwoofers and an RTA to integrate properly), or whether you don't like the sound of your DAC, etc. So it's really hard to say whether you should get a new pair of speakers. What I definitely would not do at this time is to trade the amps...

[mordante]

I have owned the Raidho D2 and currently own the D3 and very tall D5 speakers..

 

Can I marry you

 

Just joking, albeit I'm a bit jealous.

 

Aavik will be releasing a pre and power amp, or so I've heard.

[tallica1]

Part Time AudioPhile

"Joseph Audio Pulsar Mini-Pearls! The best-performing and most-convincing stand-mount loudspeaker I’ve ever heard, much less owned"

 

Speaks volumes.

[semente]

Part Time AudioPhile

"Joseph Audio Pulsar Mini-Pearls! The best-performing and most-convincing stand-mount loudspeaker I’ve ever heard, much less owned"

 

Speaks volumes.

 

Oh please, he's not even a full-time audiophile...

 

R

[johndoe21ro]

Unfortunately I could not find any measurements but at this level "speed" is most probably a frequency response aberration, as "tight" bass.

 

R

 

That's the craziest thing I've ever heard!

 

I have found that what most people (pro reviewers included) describe as "brutally honest" is usually a synonym of "bright and analytical" and not of "transparency" or accurate reproduction of the recorded signal.

The causes can be traced to the tweeter being 2dB or more to hot and/or distortion in the upper-mids due to the inadequate low-passing of the mid or mid-woofer.

 

I've just had a look at measurements of the SF Guaneri Evolution it's definitely a speaker that I would add to a shortlist if I were into small two-way speakers.

I still think that the Harbeths are the way to go, though.

 

R

 

Did anyone pay you to discredit Raidho's that much?! It sounds like a bad anti-commercial!

 

I have owned the Raidho D2 and currently own the D3 and very tall D5 speakers. I would urge you to hear the Pass on the C1.1's to see if the Pass amp is to your liking with the C1.1.

 

Raidho speakers sound best with a very fast neutral amp IMHO and to my ears. Amps with a higher damping factor are a plus too.

 

Raidho used to demo their show with Jeff Rowland and Constellation. Today they use use their self-samed manufactured amps -- Aavik.

 

FWIW I use soulution electronics to get the best out of my Raidho's.

 

I have heard the D5's in other people's residences played with Burmester and Accuphase with great results.

 

Unfortunately this is true! Raidho's are very transparent with the gear and cabling behind them! I used to own a Jeff Rowland before the BAT so yes... there's a lot of synergy between them! As I said before, the Pass Labs amp might sound a little slow and with less high and low frequency extension than you might expect. But you should definitely give them a try! Source and cabling are also very very important!

[udis]

Part Time AudioPhile

"Joseph Audio Pulsar Mini-Pearls! The best-performing and most-convincing stand-mount loudspeaker I’ve ever heard, much less owned"

 

Speaks volumes.

this is true. i called a few JA dealers that happen to also carry raidhos asking about pulsars vs X1. same price point, both dealers agreed JA is a wonderful monitors however, the raidhos are in a different league. perhaps different dealer margins/ incentives.. or maybe not.

[udis]

That's the craziest thing I've ever heard!

 

 

 

Did anyone pay you to discredit Raidho's that much?! It sounds like a bad anti-commercial!

 

 

 

Unfortunately this is true! Raidho's are very transparent with the gear and cabling behind them! I used to own a Jeff Rowland before the BAT so yes... there's a lot of synergy between them! As I said before, the Pass Labs amp might sound a little slow and with less high and low frequency extension than you might expect. But you should definitely give them a try! Source and cabling are also very very important!

 

a dealer has agreed to bring them over for at home demo with my pass. should be interesting. he suggested NAD or simaudio gear. he might bring an amp with him to compare.

 

when talking to another raidho dealer I was told that my amp has very high "current" and should drive the c1.1/d1 with ease... and I am not entirely sure what that is and how that impacts drive. can anyone please explain?

[semente]

If you know how an engine works it might not be wrong to compare output power with horsepower and current with torque.

 

You will need power for continuous SPL and current for peaks.

The more difficult the load presented by the speakers to the amplifier the more current will be required.

 

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will provide you with a better and more detailed explanation.

 

R

[semente]

If you are looking for a warmer, better balanced sound make sure that you audition replacements at those levels. The ear is less sensitive to or hears bass lower in relation to uppermids at lower SPL.

 

You will need a speaker that has a flat response with a gentle down tilt form bass to treble.

 

The LS50s sound forward because the tweeter is a few dB too hot.

Such speakers stand out at demos but are fatiguing to listen to in long listening sessions.

 

R

[johndoe21ro]

a dealer has agreed to bring them over for at home demo with my pass. should be interesting. he suggested NAD or simaudio gear. he might bring an amp with him to compare.

 

when talking to another raidho dealer I was told that my amp has very high "current" and should drive the c1.1/d1 with ease... and I am not entirely sure what that is and how that impacts drive. can anyone please explain?

 

I'd say that NAD can't impress the Raidho's too much and the Simaudio might be a little too hot on the high frequency spectrum but it's just an idea of mine... I don't know what Simaudio will be used, the cables, the source, the room or the positioning. It's not about the high 'current' here... more like Damping Factor and speed... The audition and the comparison is the best choice you have. In the end, no matter what we tell you, it's your taste and your ears that give the verdict!

[udis]

I'd say that NAD can't impress the Raidho's too much and the Simaudio might be a little too hot on the high frequency spectrum but it's just an idea of mine... I don't know what Simaudio will be used, the cables, the source, the room or the positioning. It's not about the high 'current' here... more like Damping Factor and speed... The audition and the comparison is the best choice you have. In the end, no matter what we tell you, it's your taste and your ears that give the verdict!

 

Yes. Audition is tomorrow. if not NAD or Sim, any suggestions for INT amp? The Rowland S2 has been paired with Raidhos...