Raidho c1.1 vs. Josheph Audio Pulsars vs. Harbeth 30.1M vs. Focal Diablo III vs. ?

[Priaptor]

Funny you say that. i spoke to Howard when i was shopping for the monitors. He is a big fan of Focal.

 

IMHO, no Focal compares to what you got. The Rowland integrated should be amazing with the D1.

[mordante]

I would love to try some tube integrated like VAC or Allnic as well but I am afraid my speakers are pretty hard to drive. Everything I have read about them says they require a fair amount of power to sound their best.

 

Is all you need

 

[johndoe21ro]

Same here. The Vitus RI100 has definitely piqued my curiosity.

 

Vitus RI100 is a very good choice! A friend of mine uses it with Raidho Ayra C1 and Raidho Eben X-4! BAT VK-600SE and VK-655SE are also worth to listen to!

[Priaptor]

I would love to try some tube integrated like VAC or Allnic as well but I am afraid my speakers are pretty hard to drive. Everything I have read about them says they require a fair amount of power to sound their best.

 

tboooe,

 

I heard your speakers with all ARC stuff and it sounded sublime. First, I am not blowing smoke, but your speakers are, IMHO, the best of Sonus as I have heard most their line. I heard it with an ARC 5SE/REF150 from an MSB Analogue.

 

I owned a REF75 and it was amazing. I then put in KT-150 tubes and it elevated it to another level. Then ARC released their GS series, I got the first GS150 here in FL and the first in the USA to a customer strictly to "burn in" for my dealer friend. As soon as I heard it, I knew it was never leaving. The point is, the GS75 integrated might be worth a listen if you can get one to demo at home.

[tboooe]

tboooe,

 

I heard your speakers with all ARC stuff and it sounded sublime. First, I am not blowing smoke, but your speakers are, IMHO, the best of Sonus as I have heard most their line. I heard it with an ARC 5SE/REF150 from an MSB Analogue.

 

I owned a REF75 and it was amazing. I then put in KT-150 tubes and it elevated it to another level. Then ARC released their GS series, I got the first GS150 here in FL and the first in the USA to a customer strictly to "burn in" for my dealer friend. As soon as I heard it, I knew it was never leaving. The point is, the GS75 integrated might be worth a listen if you can get one to demo at home.

 

Thank you for this recommendation. i have always like ARC gear. I used to own the Ref6 preamp and thoroughly enjoyed it. I will check out the GS. Do you know the list price on that?

[Priaptor]

Thank you for this recommendation. i have always like ARC gear. I used to own the Ref6 preamp and thoroughly enjoyed it. I will check out the GS. Do you know the list price on that?

 

I think it is at the 18K list level. Expensive and unfortunately, it comes with a built in DAC and phono stage and while the phono stage is supposed to be "excellent" for most of us it is a waste.

 

You owned the just release REF6 preamp?? I have the REF10 and the REF6 is supposed to be amazing.

 

What they really need to do is release a 12K GS integrated amp, like the GSi75, without the DAC and Phono stage. That would be a great product. Their GS amp is in a different plane from their other products.

[tboooe]

I think it is at the 18K list level. Expensive and unfortunately, it comes with a built in DAC and phono stage and while the phono stage is supposed to be "excellent" for most of us it is a waste.

 

You owned the just release REF6 preamp?? I have the REF10 and the REF6 is supposed to be amazing.

 

What they really need to do is release a 12K GS integrated amp, like the GSi75, without the DAC and Phono stage. That would be a great product. Their GS amp is in a different plane from their other products.

 

Ouch! Maybe if I wait a while I can find a used one. I agree that including the DAC and phono is a waste for most. It should be an option.

 

Sorry for the confusion. I owed the Ref6 years ago. The only thing I didnt like about it was the volume control was too coarse with the equipment I had at the time (Esoteric transport and DAC + Pass XA160 and also Ayre MX-R monoblocks). I dont listen at very high volumes, around 70db and less most of the time so the volume adjustment increment is really important to me.

[Priaptor]

Ouch! Maybe if I wait a while I can find a used one. I agree that including the DAC and phono is a waste for most. It should be an option.

 

Sorry for the confusion. I owed the Ref6 years ago. The only thing I didnt like about it was the volume control was too coarse with the equipment I had at the time (Esoteric transport and DAC + Pass XA160 and also Ayre MX-R monoblocks). I dont listen at very high volumes, around 70db and less most of the time so the volume adjustment increment is really important to me.

 

I understand. The first thing everyone wants to do when they walk into my room is TURN UP THE VOLUME. I too like to listen at lower volumes and one of the reasons I love speakers like yours and the D1 and most stand mounted monitors in general and one of the reasons I just didn't like the Q1s. My speakers are one of the few REALLY LARGE speakers that can reproduce the intimacy of a stand mounted speaker like yours. It is a special system that can reproduce most of the nuance of the music without deafening you at the same time. It also shows in my choice of music tastes which has really tamed over the years.

 

As to the GSi75, too expensive for too much that you would never use. In my second home I use a Melody Int 300B that I put Sophia Royal Princess 300bs and Tung-Sol round plate 6SN7 (matched and incredibly rare) into to drive my Lawrence Mandolin, a wonderful stand mounted monitor for the bucks, but as much as I love that amp, #1 it is a rare bird, #2 not sure it would drive your speakers appropriately and #3 doubt many places would have one for you to demo. BUT it is an amazing integrated amp, as long as you use it single ended as it's "balanced" isn't really balanced and is noisy. BUT it is something else.

[udis]

Vitus RI100 is a very good choice! A friend of mine uses it with Raidho Ayra C1 and Raidho Eben X-4! BAT VK-600SE and VK-655SE are also worth to listen to!

 

I do wander if this amp is overdue for a refresh... it's nearly 6 years old.

[johndoe21ro]

I do wander if this amp is overdue for a refresh... it's nearly 6 years old.

 

My mistake... my friend is using them with a Vitus SS-010 stereo power amplifier! I couldn't say if it's overdue or not. All I can say is that a Vitus is one hell of an amp, regardless of its age/series/etc.! I would say it's still very competitive against the latest designs and an amazing equipment to own!

[semente]

My mistake... my friend is using them with a Vitus SS-010 stereo power amplifier! I couldn't say if it's overdue or not. All I can say is that a Vitus is one hell of an amp, regardless of its age/series/etc.! I would say it's still very competitive against the latest designs and an amazing equipment to own!

 

I wonder what has changed in (transistor and tube) amplifier design in the last decade (or two) that would make the latest more competitive.

 

R

[udis]

My mistake... my friend is using them with a Vitus SS-010 stereo power amplifier! I couldn't say if it's overdue or not. All I can say is that a Vitus is one hell of an amp, regardless of its age/series/etc.! I would say it's still very competitive against the latest designs and an amazing equipment to own!

 

It does appear to be the case, it's interesting that Vitus has little "traction" in the US, while very popular in Europe. I am starting to lean towards it more and more. however, being an a/b topology, i am not 100% sure if it has the speed at comparable class D. TBS did call it a "Sledgehammer with a heart"...

[Daphne]

Hi udis: To answer your question, I have not seen or listened to any Ayre component with Raidho speakers. The Ayre AX-5 Twenty is an excellent integrated amp, but who knows how it will match with your Raidho D1’s. Perhaps some other audio forums will have more information, or a home audition might be required. It is definitely a combination I’m interested in hearing. I’m not familiar with any dealers in the area that carry Ayre components except Audible Images way up in Melbourne.

 

This past fall while in Switzerland, I listened to the D1 speakers connected to a Jeff Rowland Continuum S2 integrated amp, with a Lumin A1 and also with a dcs Rossini Player and Clock; a very simple and excellent sounding system. Just thought I would mention; this is a Class D amplifier, but it does not sound like any Class D amp I have ever listened to. (Nevertheless, many still believe that Class D does not produce the sound quality of a Class A or A/B amps.) This is a very neutral and revealing pairing so choose your front end carefully.

 

I have an employee (my system analyst) who has the D1s, with a single 10” REL subwoofer powered by the new Mark Levinson No. 585 integrated amp/DAC and Aurender N10. That is one sweet sounding system for a small room. This is the only system I have listened to with a subwoofer added to the D1’s and it definitely added a missing dimension. It is set up in a room that is 11 by 14 feet with a high vaulted ceiling and a skylight. The room is primarily used as a studio by his wife and contains only a large drawing table, a long computer desk with shelves, stool, and love seat sofa. She is an editorial illustrator and enjoys listening to classical music while working. They originally auditioned the Raidho D1s with a Devialet unit, but Alex is a Mark Levinson fan and claims the D1s sound better with the No. 585.

 

I had the opportunity of listening to this system for 2.5 hours, with and without the subwoofer, and a wide variety of music. Now this is just my opinion, but I found the D1s performed just fine without the subwoofer. How much SPL does one really need in a small room? In addition, I found the No.585 to be well worth the $12,000 price, and the internal DAC is outstanding. Well worth the trouble if a home audition.

 

To explain in more detail; listening to a string quartet on the D1s is outstanding, but with a full orchestral performance, or Rock and Roll, the D1s lack weight, impact, and SPL in the bass. I know one can say this about all two way monitor speakers, but the Raidho’s tend to lack just a little more than some others, but they make up for it in every other way, and not by a small margin.

 

The Continuum S2 or the Devialet are the only Class D amps I have ever seen being used with any Raidho speaker. Most amplifiers have been Class AB. My employee Alex was telling me he was at some audio show where the D1s were being powered by a pair of Constellation Centaur monoblocks (extreme overkill).

 

While in Paris, at Aphrotide’s Melody, I saw the D1 connected to the unique Aavik Acoustics integrated amp/DAC, a Playback Designs server, and a Brinkman turntable, with Ansuz cables. It sounded really nice to me. The rather nice middle aged Frenchman gave me the State of the Art rap about the system right up to the point I made the comment there was nothing state of the art about a belt drive turntable and suggested he save it for the next Retrophile. Even though my French was better than his English, I failed to adequately explain Retrophile and moved on to ask why the Aavik only had single ended inputs like an integrated amp from the 1980’s.

 

I am familiar with the Vitus RI-100 integrated amp. Four to five years ago, one would be hard pressed finding an integrated amp to compete with the RI-100, but in the past two years the competition has caught up. However, it is still one of the best available. A step up would be the Vitus SIA-025 integrated amp which is simply outstanding. Close friends I went to college with live in New Hope, Pennsylvania overlooking the Delaware River. They have a gorgeous home (more like a compound) and in their living room they have the Vitus SIA-025 integrated amp with the Vitus SCD-025 CD player/DAC connected to a pair of Wilson Sophia 3 speakers. They purchased the system from a dealer in the Philadelphia area. I have no idea where Vitus components would be available in Florida. When I was visiting for 3 days after Thanksgiving they had added an Aurender N10 and are now using strange magnetic cables made by a company called High Fidelity. I share an apartment in NYC with this couple (I own the apartment, but we split the monthly maintenance fees). We have an Accuphase E560 integrated amp with the DP720 SACD/CD player and a pair of Vienna Acoustics Kiss speakers. Accuphase builds some really nice integrated amps. They will last for decades, and the resale value is fairly good.

 

I have been following all the threads on speakers and integrated amps because I have a new second office in Sausalito, California with windows looking out over a colorful houseboat community and the bay. I really like the Raidho D1 speakers and think they would fit nicely in the new office space, but I am also undecided on which integrated amp to use. I generally listen to light music during the day while working and the Raidho D1 speakers are superb for my purpose.

 

In my Boca Raton office I am using a pair of Wilson Duette speakers, a Boulder 865 integrated amp, Berkeley Alpha DAC RS with the Meridian Control 15 and Media Core 600. Except for the DAC this system is a good 7 years old. I like the Wilson speakers because they are designed to perform close to the wall which works well in a small office. I thought about going with the Wilson Duette Series 2 speakers which are even better. However, I’m up for something a little different this time.

 

There are some excellent integrated amps on the market today. I was thinking about checking out the Constellation Argo which I hear is an excellent integrated amp and pairs very well with Raidho speakers, but a little on the pricy side – around $23,000.

 

Also, the Dan D’Agostino Momentum Integrated Amp, specifically the new D’Agostino Mlife integrated amp with the built in DAC and streamer to audition, the thought of a one box solution for my office is appealing. Then again, even though I’m a D’Agostino owner and fan, $45,000 for an integrated amp just to power a pair of small monitor speakers seems ridiculous.

 

Considering the Raidho D1 monitors with stands are in the neighborhood of $23,000, they are truly in the realm of high-end speakers. And now talk of integrated amps crossing the forbidden threshold into five figures, well… this seems to be an uncommon thread for CA.

[semente]

On 19/03/2016 at 9:40 PM, semente said:

I've just been reading a couple of reviews of the C1.1.

It's annoying that one has to read between the lines but it appears they produce an "analytical" sound with little "soundstage" (which is not surprising considering that the dispersion of a ribbon tweeter is usually very directional).

Mentions of "speed" also seem to point to a "lean" sound (which will sound "leaner" at lower volumes).

 

Considering the very high price tag (for what the topology can offer in terms of performance) and your requirements I wouldn't get a pair before listening.

 

R

 

I have finally found a frequency response measurement of a Raidho (D2.1).

What a joke...

 

[udis]

On 4/30/2017 at 5:12 AM, semente said:

 

I have finally found a frequency response measurement of a Raidho (D2.1).

What a joke...

 

I don't know how to read these plots, do you mind helping me understand what i am looking at and what ideally i should see for a "good" or better response?

[tboooe]

23 minutes ago, udis said:

I don't know how to read these plots, do you mind helping me understand what i am looking at and what ideally i should see for a "good" or better response?

Pay attention to the red line.  Conventional wisdom is that this line should be as flat as possible.  Is this case, there seems to be huge peak in the 60-70hz region and a big dip 2-5khz region.  Definitely not ideal.  I believe the blue and green lines are off axis measurements.  It shows how the higher freqs drop off significantly once the tweeters are not pointed directly at your ears.  That makes sense because ribbon tweeters tend to be more directional than dome tweeters.  For comparison, check out the on axis freq response for my speakers (SF Guaneri Evolution).  It has a small hump around 100hz but otherwise its pretty flat.

 

 

Similarly, here is the off axis freq response of the same speaker.  Notice how at higher freqs the response drops off.

 

 

Many people believe a downward sloping freq response sounds best to our ears.  For example, I use room correction to have the following response:

 

20-100hz +2db

101-1000hz +0db

10001-20,000hz -5db

[semente]

5 hours ago, udis said:

I don't know how to read these plots, do you mind helping me understand what i am looking at and what ideally i should see for a "good" or better response?

 

Hi, 

 

There's a good description of how the frequency response plot correlates with listening and it should look like in this review starting at Subjective Listening Impressions - Introduction

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/reviews/dynaudio-focus-600-xd-loudspeaker-review/

 

[semente]

5 hours ago, tboooe said:

Pay attention to the red line.  Conventional wisdom is that this line should be as flat as possible.  Is this case, there seems to be huge peak in the 60-70hz region and a big dip 2-5khz region.  Definitely not ideal.  I believe the blue and green lines are off axis measurements.  It shows how the higher freqs drop off significantly once the tweeters are not pointed directly at your ears.  That makes sense because ribbon tweeters tend to be more directional than dome tweeters.  For comparison, check out the on axis freq response for my speakers (SF Guaneri Evolution).  It has a small hump around 100hz but otherwise its pretty flat.

 

 

 

The response is indeed flat but one should take care when analysing Sphile's plots because they are neither measured in anechoic conditions nor do they represent the on-axis frequency response.

 

The measurement is in fact the averaged result of a handful of measurements taken over a wide "30° horizontal window" and we should take into account that it has been "corrected for microphone response, with complex sum of nearfield woofer and port responses plotted below 300Hz", with a resulting artifact that manifests itself in the shape of a 6dB bump at around 100Hz (which can be seen in all of JA's measurements).

Here's an example, the PSB Imagine T3 measured by Stereophile and by the National Research Council (anechoic) for Soundstage:

 

 

 

R

[semente]

On 30/04/2017 at 10:12 AM, semente said:

 

I have finally found a frequency response measurement of a Raidho (D2.1).

What a joke...

 

 

Here's the Harbeth Super HL5+ measured by the same magazine:

 

 

R

[udis]

6 hours ago, tboooe said:

Pay attention to the red line.  Conventional wisdom is that this line should be as flat as possible.  Is this case, there seems to be huge peak in the 60-70hz region and a big dip 2-5khz region.  Definitely not ideal.  I believe the blue and green lines are off axis measurements.  It shows how the higher freqs drop off significantly once the tweeters are not pointed directly at your ears.  That makes sense because ribbon tweeters tend to be more directional than dome tweeters.  For comparison, check out the on axis freq response for my speakers (SF Guaneri Evolution).  It has a small hump around 100hz but otherwise its pretty flat.

 

 

Similarly, here is the off axis freq response of the same speaker.  Notice how at higher freqs the response drops off.

 

 

Many people believe a downward sloping freq response sounds best to our ears.  For example, I use room correction to have the following response:

 

20-100hz +2db

101-1000hz +0db

10001-20,000hz -5db

Thank you. This is very helpful. I am curious to what degree measurements factor in when the character of sounds perceived to be ideal is subjective. I ask because Raidho CEO is quoted as saying “The crossover region becomes rather critical, and though the school books tell you to make this region straight and flat, I don’t make it flat, because flat means it stands out! Our hearing will immediately recognize the tiny differences going on in that region and thus divert our attention there. The solution is to make a deliberate suckout in the crossover region where the frequency response has a 2-3dB dip centered at the crossover point. So Raidho speakers do not deliberately measure straight, they sound straight. This was the accident of the famed BBC monitor LS3/5A; people have often seen this curve as a target curve for loudspeaker design, and even some digital-correction units have this BBC curve built-in for adjusting speaker response, which is plain wrong. The BBC curve is not universal, but fits those drivers in that exact implementation.” When discussing the response of this exact speaker. 

[udis]

34 minutes ago, semente said:

 

Here's the Harbeth Super HL5+ measured by the same magazine:

 

 

R

Thank you! Do you happen to have measurements for Raidho D1.1? Maybe you can share a link to this magazine?

[semente]

27 minutes ago, udis said:

Thank you. This is very helpful. I am curious to what degree measurements factor in when the character of sounds perceived to be ideal is subjective. I ask because Raidho CEO is quoted as saying “The crossover region becomes rather critical, and though the school books tell you to make this region straight and flat, I don’t make it flat, because flat means it stands out! Our hearing will immediately recognize the tiny differences going on in that region and thus divert our attention there. The solution is to make a deliberate suckout in the crossover region where the frequency response has a 2-3dB dip centered at the crossover point. So Raidho speakers do not deliberately measure straight, they sound straight. This was the accident of the famed BBC monitor LS3/5A; people have often seen this curve as a target curve for loudspeaker design, and even some digital-correction units have this BBC curve built-in for adjusting speaker response, which is plain wrong. The BBC curve is not universal, but fits those drivers in that exact implementation.” When discussing the response of this exact speaker. 

 

The BBC mentions 2dB:

 

 

But the D2.1 is down -5dB at 3KHz and then shoots up to +5dB at 10KHz.

Then there are those two big bumps at the lower end.

 

R

[semente]

4 minutes ago, udis said:

Thank you! Do you happen to have measurements for Raidho D1.1? Maybe you can share a link to this magazine?

 

I don't, but here's the link for the magazine:

 

http://www.connect.de/thema/lautsprecher/

[semente]

Here's a test with measurements of the C1.1 which also shows a noticeable dip followed by an up-tilting top:

 

http://www.gaudios.eu/pdf/RaidhoC1.1.pdf

 

 

 

P.S.: both the frequency response and the waterfall show a resonance at around 8kHz...ceramic mid-woofers generally produce strong resonances but with a second order filter at 3kHz it might be produced by the tweeter...

[kaufenpreis]

Jeff Rowland is definitely underrated. Moon is overrated and pricey.