Sonore microRendu

[jtwrace]

So, which product out of the microRendu or the Regen power supply will make it to market first? I'm getting both anyway and I'm equally excited about both of them.

 

microRendu for sure. The mystery supply is June I'd bet.

[earnmyturns]

Yes, well remember, John's day job (for 30+ years) is designing/laying out the power networks inside big custom chips that the large firm he works for

Respect! I'm so delighted that this amazing tech is making it finally to the hands of private audio fanatics.

[Sonic77]

What would be really cool is if we got some video from AXPONA, showing the microRendu in action, that way we could also get a sampling of what it sounds like, sort of.

[JohnSwenson]

What would be really cool is if we got some video from AXPONA, showing the microRendu in action, that way we could also get a sampling of what it sounds like, sort of.

There is not much to look at, the Ethernet activity light flashing as packets come over is about it, other than that it just sits there.

 

John S.

[jtwrace]

There is not much to look at, the Ethernet activity light flashing as packets come over is about it, other than that it just sits there.

 

John S.

 

Uh, oh. Did someone say Ethernet Packets?!?! Sounds like a REGEN-E is in need. haha

[JohnSwenson]

Just 2 questions. How long does the MicroRendu take to boot?

 

Simone

 

I have mine in a squeeze network, for a test I had the microRendu playing music (from LMS) then turned it off, unplugged it. Plugged it back in and it took 30 seconds to be playing music again. That includes the server realizing the player was up and running, figuring out who it was and start playing at the song that was playing when it was turned off. The microRendu itself was probably booted in 22 seconds or so.

 

John S.

[rickca]

John, I still don't get the decision to use a micro SD for the OS rather than some nonvolatile memory. Wouldn't NVM be faster and more reliable?

[Sonic77]

There is not much to look at, the Ethernet activity light flashing as packets come over is about it, other than that it just sits there.

 

John S.

I should've said hear it, see if it lives up to all the hype. I know it wont be the same as in person, but at least we can get somewhat of an idea. We also need some first hand listening from people other then the ones who are making money off this thing, we know what they're going to say, lets hear some critical reviews from people who are not making money off this device. I cant wait to get this thing, if its bad or doesn't live up to the hype believe me I'll be letting everyone know my opinion.

[firedog]

Uh, oh. Did someone say Ethernet Packets?!?! Sounds like a REGEN-E is in need. haha

 

 

It basically has a Regen built into it. If someone wants an ethernet filter, those also exist.

[JohnSwenson]

John, I still don't get the decision to use a micro SD for the OS rather than some nonvolatile memory. Wouldn't NVM be faster and more reliable?

 

Glad you asked!

 

The iMX6 has three memory subsystems, the DDR3, which wee need to use for the main memory of the system, a very small simple, low power SD card subsystem, and the generic everything else memory subsystem. The later is what you use for NVRAM, flash chips etc. It is a large complex system designed to run very fast. This uses a lot of power and generates a lot of noise in the chip. The SD card controller is slow, low power and generates very little noise, and on top of that has its own power supply pins on the chip which cuts down even more on the noise it generates. So by using the SD card rather than something like NVRAM I can drastically cut down on the noise in the chip.

 

There are also things like SSDs, but they all need some form of high power bus to talk to (SATA, PCIE etc), which would mean I would have to turn on those subsystems.

 

On the reliability front, I have actually found that using on board FLASH or NVRAM is actually less reliable. I have worked with several embedded boards over the last few years that have had flash chips, that have had problems far more often than ones that run straight off an SD card. I think it has to do with where the controller is. With SD card the flash controller is built into the card, the software doesn't have to know anything about that. The inexpensive flash chips used with these systems do not have a built in controller, they require the OS to deal with the issues specific to flash memory. Linux has some good code for this, but if something happens with the kernel during runtime, it is very easy for the flash to get corrupted. I had one board that if power went out during boot the flash was guaranteed to be corrupted.

 

On top of that you have to have some method for programming the flash chip, various methods have been used for this over the years, but they are all WAY more complicated than sticking an SD card into a slot!

 

Because of all that going with the OS stored on SD card seemed like a very good idea.

 

John S.

[Dev]

Glad you asked!

 

The iMX6 has three memory subsystems, the DDR3, which wee need to use for the main memory of the system, a very small simple, low power SD card subsystem, and the generic everything else memory subsystem. The later is what you use for NVRAM, flash chips etc. It is a large complex system designed to run very fast. This uses a lot of power and generates a lot of noise in the chip. The SD card controller is slow, low power and generates very little noise, and on top of that has its own power supply pins on the chip which cuts down even more on the noise it generates. So by using the SD card rather than something like NVRAM I can drastically cut down on the noise in the chip.

 

There are also things like SSDs, but they all need some form of high power bus to talk to (SATA, PCIE etc), which would mean I would have to turn on those subsystems.

 

On the reliability front, I have actually found that using on board FLASH or NVRAM is actually less reliable. I have worked with several embedded boards over the last few years that have had flash chips, that have had problems far more often than ones that run straight off an SD card. I think it has to do with where the controller is. With SD card the flash controller is built into the card, the software doesn't have to know anything about that. The inexpensive flash chips used with these systems do not have a built in controller, they require the OS to deal with the issues specific to flash memory. Linux has some good code for this, but if something happens with the kernel during runtime, it is very easy for the flash to get corrupted. I had one board that if power went out during boot the flash was guaranteed to be corrupted.

 

On top of that you have to have some method for programming the flash chip, various methods have been used for this over the years, but they are all WAY more complicated than sticking an SD card into a slot!

 

Because of all that going with the OS stored on SD card seemed like a very good idea.

 

John S.

 

+1. Excellent reasoning for not using NVRAM. My personal experience matches with JS and they are not the most reliable flash devices. More than the controller, I have seen power issues and fluctuations also cause it go bad sometimes.

 

Question to JS - since you are running Linux, I assume you would use the SD card as the boot device and switch root to the primary memory (DDR3 ?) ? How big is the Ram and the linux image uncompressed ?

[hifi_swlon]

There is not much to look at, the Ethernet activity light flashing as packets come over is about it, other than that it just sits there.

 

John S.

 

Sacré bleu! A flashing light on an audiophile device! Will there be an option for a non-flashing version, so that it won't interfere with sound quality!?

[juanitox]

I should've said hear it, see if it lives up to all the hype. I know it wont be the same as in person, but at least we can get somewhat of an idea. We also need some first hand listening from people other then the ones who are making money off this thing, we know what they're going to say, lets hear some critical reviews from people who are not making money off this device. I cant wait to get this thing, if its bad or doesn't live up to the hype believe me I'll be letting everyone know my opinion.

 

 

if i am so impatient to get one of this thing is just because i am disapointed at this time with computer audio. so the first company who will find a better way to do it will win the jackpot.

 

not a New Hype but a New Hope for me

[jtwrace]

Has the microRendu been testing with the Gustard X20U?

[kennyb123]

I should've said hear it, see if it lives up to all the hype. I know it wont be the same as in person, but at least we can get somewhat of an idea. We also need some first hand listening from people other then the ones who are making money off this thing, we know what they're going to say, lets hear some critical reviews from people who are not making money off this device. I cant wait to get this thing, if its bad or doesn't live up to the hype believe me I'll be letting everyone know my opinion.

 

Hear it? If it's doing a great job then it should just pass the signal on faithfully and not have no sound of its own. It would only be when compared directly to something else that one would get to hear how well it's doing in this regard. Will you get that an opportunity to do a meaningful comparison at a show and under show conditions? Maybe. Would you be able to glean it from listening to a video? I can't imagine how.

 

But you're right, it's when you get this thing at home that you'll finally be able to determine for yourself when you compare it to what you have now as to whether it lives up to the hype.

[Sonic77]

Hear it? If it's doing a great job then it should just pass the signal on faithfully and not have no sound of its own. It would only be when compared directly to something else that one would get to hear how well it's doing in this regard. Will you get that an opportunity to do a meaningful comparison at a show and under show conditions? Maybe. Would you be able to glean it from listening to a video? I can't imagine how.

 

But you're right, it's when you get this thing at home that you'll finally be able to determine for yourself when you compare it to what you have now as to whether it lives up to the hype.

I said get an idea of how it sounds, geez..

[JohnSwenson]

Sacré bleu! A flashing light on an audiophile device! Will there be an option for a non-flashing version, so that it won't interfere with sound quality!?

 

There is always the DIY approach, a piece of black tape over the LED.

[YashN]

Has the microRendu been testing with the Gustard X20U?

 

Judging by the various great reviews I have seen on the latter, this should be a wicked combination.

[jhwalker]

Hear it? If it's doing a great job then it should just pass the signal on faithfully and not have no sound of its own. It would only be when compared directly to something else that one would get to hear how well it's doing in this regard. Will you get that an opportunity to do a meaningful comparison at a show and under show conditions? Maybe. Would you be able to glean it from listening to a video? I can't imagine how.

 

But you're right, it's when you get this thing at home that you'll finally be able to determine for yourself when you compare it to what you have now as to whether it lives up to the hype.

 

I was thinking the same thing - how would you "hear" anything valuable from a video made at the show?

[Vinnie Rossi]

I was thinking the same thing - how would you "hear" anything valuable from a video made at the show?

 

LOL - you should see the comments on the Avshowrooms.com youtube videos. So much critiquing goes on, and the signal chain is like this:

 

hotel room system >> camcorder mics and A/D >> upload to youtube (I'm pretty sure youtube compresses things) >> you download and listen from your computer >> D/A >> headphone jack (or computer speakers) >> your headphones or computer speakers.

 

Don't get me wrong - it's very cool to watch the videos (especially if you can't make it to the shows, and Peter and Terry do a very nice job and put in a ton of effort on them all!), but the sound critiquing that goes on in the comments section leaves me scratching my head. You are NOT hearing it the way it sounds like being there in the room (even if you use the same system to listen to it, which I have done). It's not even close - so just keep that in mind... especially with earbuds or computer speakers. lol

 

Sorry to get off topic, and hope to see many of you at AXPONA and Newport Beach shows to listen in person!

 

Vinnie

[simone]

22 or 30 seconds sounds good to me! thank you for the info.

 

 

I have mine in a squeeze network, for a test I had the microRendu playing music (from LMS) then turned it off, unplugged it. Plugged it back in and it took 30 seconds to be playing music again. That includes the server realizing the player was up and running, figuring out who it was and start playing at the song that was playing when it was turned off. The microRendu itself was probably booted in 22 seconds or so.

 

John S.

[firedog]

22 or 30 seconds sounds good to me! thank you for the info.

 

My SMS-100 seems to take 5 minutes or more to fully boot up, so the difference alone might make me buy the microRendu.

[Vinnie Rossi]

Next I am going to try and see if I can just use the N300 (no wireless router). So:

 

Macbook Air >> wifi >> N300 >> RJ45 >> microRendu. (In the web browser I would directly http:// to the IP

address of the microRendu, and not go through the MySonicorbiter web interface (no internet).

 

Ideally it will work for me this way at AXPONA, because I don't want to rely on the hotel's connection. I really just want to get my music off my Macbook Air (running Roon) to the microRendu as simply and reliably as possible.

 

Just to confirm - it works!

 

I also just picked up an Apple Airport Express and will do the same testing to confirm (with up to 24/192 and DSD128 files).

 

Then I'm curious about feeding the Belkin or Airport Express from a clean, external power supply. They both currently take 120Vac, but internally they are using a SMPS to convert to lower voltage DC. So it would be interesting to see what happens when either is fed with very clean power. The reason I care is because the RJ45 output from these wireless router/bridge products contains power/gnd signals. I understand that there is galvanic isolation at the microRendu's RJ45 input jack, but I'm still curious if improvements can be heard with a cleaner power approach (if any). The microRendu is proving to be so resolving that I have to wonder. More soon...

 

Vinnie

[jumper]

How do you select mode and any other settings without the interface?

[Vinnie Rossi]

How do you select mode and any other settings without the interface?

 

You can still interface with the microRendu once you find its IP address and enter it in your browser. You just won't have internet access unless you connect it to the router (wired or wirelessly, depending on your setup).

 

But once you set it up - you don't have to set it up every time it seems. Just open Roon again and it automatically finds the microRendu after it has booted up. Slick!