Optical Network Configurations

[SQFIRST]

33 minutes ago, jabbr said:

manufacturer can use whatever they want and no particular standard as long as the cables transmit the bits

No doubt and the change from the otherwise specification heavy world of Optical cabling was what I was finding bit amusing in this instance. 

 

34 minutes ago, jabbr said:

lookup MPO/MTP

Thanks! high density cabling, awesome. 

 

[TRHH]

Due to it's specifications a bit more expensive compared to other fiber patch cords:

 

• 1.8 meter - Commscope TeraSPEED OS2 full spectrum, zero water peak single mode (ZWP-SM) LC/UPC to LC/UPC fiber patch cord, 1.6 mm duplex, 9/125µm, ITU-T G.652.D and G.657.A1 compliant (FFWLCLC42-JXF006)

 

 

Torben

[Reg19]

On 9/3/2023 at 12:13 AM, charlesphoto said:

Holy Cow! Just installed a Cisco SFP-10G-AOC 2m between my opticalModule (1st gen) and opticalRendu. Wow. One of the biggest changes I've ever heard in this land of tweakery, that isn't even supposed to exist. I had single mode Finisair FTLF1421PBTL before, and they were somewhat better than the basic TPLink multimodes. But this. Stunned. 

 

The PRAT is somewhat slower than I'm used to, but I can really hear the separation between instruments. And I guess you can say they sound musical, like instruments are supposed to sound, with no hash or glare. Maybe slightly less detailed, but really takes the glare off the top end, which is always a problem for me as a tinnitus sufferer. I'll see how they burn in, plus my ears are stuffed up and recovering from an earache. But I've played Who's next, my favorite Vivaldi on Naive, and Cluster/Eno and Waltz for Debby 196/24, and they all sound deep and musical, and I can hears o much it's a bit overwhelming. I'll get used to it. If anything a bit too much bass, but that saves me and my wallet from my thinking I needed a sub before, and I can isolate the speakers a bit better. 

 

I got mine off eBay for $35 plus some tax, essentially brand new, from a US seller, not a knock off. 2 meters. Plug and play. Seriously, one of the biggest differences I've heard in a cable. I guess I would say if the SFP+ is even that much better, and you don't need to save $, go for it. I do right now, and this really completes my network side for almost nothing. Amazing upgrade. 

 

Bummer! I bought my SFP-10G-AOC1M for $217 (including shipping to the US) from AfterDark!

 

I, too, use it in between my 1st gen opticalModule and opticalRendu. Earlier, I’d take the USB out from the oR straight to my DAC (Holo May L2). Now, I use a SoTM TxUSB-Ultra and it improves the SQ enough that I have to keep it there.

 

This SFP / Fiber combo sounds better than the prior combos I have tried. In comparison to the SoTM SMS-200Ultra Neo, it is less full-bodied, less euphonic (but more than just using oM / oR combo with other SFP / Fiber combos), has a lower noise floor and is more detailed.

 

When I use the SMS-200Ultra Neo + TxUSB-Ultra combo, I prefer use of HQPlayer (either PCM 768KHz / LNS15 / Sinc-Long or DSD512 AMSDM7EC 512+fx / gauss-xla).

Instead, when I use the oM / oR + TxUSB-Ultra combo, I prefer just using Roon and excluding HQPlayer.

 

Preamp: VAC Renaissance Mk V

Amps: Parasound JC1+ monos

Speakers: Focal Maestro Utopia

 

[jabbr]

On 9/8/2023 at 4:13 PM, SQFIRST said:

No doubt and the change from the otherwise specification heavy world of Optical cabling was what I was finding bit amusing in this instance. 

 

 

 

The intention with SFP(+) modules and cables is that you can plug devices from different manufacturers into each side of the connection but as long as each device/component matches the spec the connection will be plug and play which requires details.

 

The all-in-one cables don't need this **however** are not guaranteed to work with every device. 

[Mike Rubin]

I am late to the discussion of the Cisco cable/SFP+ combo SFP-10G-AOC2M, but now am quite confused by this thread.  

 

All of the product listings I find for that model number say the modules are SFP+, not SFP.  My understanding has been that you can use an SFP module in an SFP+ cage, but not vice versa.  

 

The Sonore products don't have SFP+ ports, so I would not expect the Cisco part to work in them, yet this thread clearly says the Cisco piece does.  

 

Am I misunderstanding the spec of the Cisco modules or is my compatability understanding what's off here? 

[audiom3]

6 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

.All of the product listings I find for that model number say the modules are SFP+, not SFP.  My understanding has been that you can use an SFP module in an SFP+ cage, but not vice versa.  

 

Am I misunderstanding the spec of the Cisco modules or is my compatability understanding what's off here? 

Your understanding of compatibility is off, as you said. You can definitely use an SFP+ transceiver is a 1G (SFP) router/switch. Is it guaranteed to work? No. But even SFP transceivers arent guaranteed to work in every device that supports 1G speeds.. 

Many of us have gone through a lot of trial and error to figure out, not only what works, but what sounds best in our setup. 

[audiobomber]

1 hour ago, audiom3 said:

Your understanding of compatibility is off, as you said. You can definitely use an SFP+ transceiver is a 1G (SFP) router/switch. Is it guaranteed to work? No. But even SFP transceivers arent guaranteed to work in every device that supports 1G speeds.. 

Many of us have gone through a lot of trial and error to figure out, not only what works, but what sounds best in our setup. 

I agree with all that and would add that you cannot connect a 10G port and SFP+ module to a downstream 1G device.

[charlesphoto]

9 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

I am late to the discussion of the Cisco cable/SFP+ combo SFP-10G-AOC2M, but now am quite confused by this thread.  

 

All of the product listings I find for that model number say the modules are SFP+, not SFP.  My understanding has been that you can use an SFP module in an SFP+ cage, but not vice versa.  

 

The Sonore products don't have SFP+ ports, so I would not expect the Cisco part to work in them, yet this thread clearly says the Cisco piece does.  

 

Am I misunderstanding the spec of the Cisco modules or is my compatability understanding what's off here? 

The Cisco AOC works in the Sonore products (I'm using one between oM and oR). Where it won't work, is in many older and non-X model Cisco switches, even all 1GB ones like my 2960, so best to look at their compatibility chart if planning on using it in one of those. 

[Mike Rubin]

My application is between two Sonore devices, so it sounds as though I should be able to use the Cisco AOC just fine. Thanks for the confirmation. 

[Mike Rubin]

I got this part number on ebay and just installed the cable ends into the sfp cages on my Signature Rendu SE and Optical Module Deluxe.  Neither sfp clicks into place and both are just hanging loosely in the cages. More importantly, the Signature Rendu isn't getting online.

 

Did I forget to buy some other part or otherwise? Did I miss something about installing this cable? 

[Kal Rubinson]

24 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

I got this part number on ebay and just installed the cable ends into the sfp cages on my Signature Rendu SE and Optical Module Deluxe.  Neither sfp clicks into place and both are just hanging loosely in the cages. More importantly, the Signature Rendu isn't getting online.

 

Did I forget to buy some other part or otherwise? Did I miss something about installing this cable? 

Perhaps because it is SFP+ and not SFP.  What's in your boxes?

[R1200CL]

Did you remove protection caps? 😀

[Mike Rubin]

@Kal Rubinson, yes, these are SFP+ modules in SFP cages. Based on the comments above, though, I expected them to work between two Sonore devices.

 

@R1200CL, are the protection caps the brown handles on the modules? If so, no, I didn't remove them because they look securely attached to the modules. There aren't other caps that I can see. 

[Mike Rubin]

I figured out how to seat the modules properly:  put them into the cages label side down.  I have been using optical for at least five years, but this was my first experience with an SFP that inserted with the label on the bottom. 

 

Now, I am trying to get the rendu to join my network. 

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Mike Rubin said:

I figured out how to seat the modules properly:  put them into the cages label side down.  I have been using optical for at least five years, but this was my first experience with an SFP that inserted with the label on the bottom. 

 

Now, I am trying to get the rendu to join my network. 

 

Don't leave us hanging. 🙂 Success?

[Mike Rubin]

19 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Don't leave us hanging. 🙂 Success?

Connected, yes, but not playing music.  I think that may be a Sonore firmware snag that showed up with an update a couple of days ago.  So: troubleshooting now.  😪

[Mike Rubin]

It is playing now and I already can see the virtues of the AOC.  Too early to tell if it will replace the Finisars over the long haul but it is sounding a bit less edgy on some test selections. 

[jabbr]

On 11/5/2023 at 8:40 AM, audiobomber said:

I agree with all that and would add that you cannot connect a 10G port and SFP+ module to a downstream 1G device.

 

There are 10g SFP+ modules that operate at 1g with downstream 1g SFP devices. This isn't standardized so you have to try and see. Indeed the very first post on this thread. The good news is that the newer SFP28 devices are generally multirate e.g. support 25G,10G,5G,2.5g AND 1G

 

The original impetus on creating this thread was so folks can document what actually works with what but I've been using 10g SFP+ switches with 1g SFP endpoints forever.

 

Also the AOC cables don't always work with everything, you need to try them out. The advantage of SFP(+) modules with a fiber cable in between is that you can swap different modules on one end or the other to get things working. I do use AOC cables in the server area when they work e.g. Mellanox NIC to Mellanox NIC

[audiobomber]

17 minutes ago, jabbr said:

There are 10g SFP+ modules that operate at 1g with downstream 1g SFP devices. This isn't standardized so you have to try and see. Indeed the very first post on this thread. The good news is that the newer SFP28 devices are generally multirate e.g. support 25G,10G,5G,2.5g AND 1G

This requires clarification. I have a 10G network adapter from my computer to a 1G FMC. The computer does not know what is on the other end of the fiber. If I use an SFP+ in the 10G port, it will send a 10G data stream, which the FMC/SFP cannot decode.

 

As I understand it, there are some switches and SFP+ modules  that can force the 10G device to output 1G, but it requires programming that not everyone could handle, and from reading this thread, some gear that claims to do this trick can't quite manage it. Bottom line, you cannot feed a 10G data stream to a downstream 1G device.

[lsantista]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:18 PM, Reg19 said:

 

Bummer! I bought my SFP-10G-AOC1M for $217 (including shipping to the US) from AfterDark!

 

I, too, use it in between my 1st gen opticalModule and opticalRendu. Earlier, I’d take the USB out from the oR straight to my DAC (Holo May L2). Now, I use a SoTM TxUSB-Ultra and it improves the SQ enough that I have to keep it there.

 

This SFP / Fiber combo sounds better than the prior combos I have tried. In comparison to the SoTM SMS-200Ultra Neo, it is less full-bodied, less euphonic (but more than just using oM / oR combo with other SFP / Fiber combos), has a lower noise floor and is more detailed.

 

When I use the SMS-200Ultra Neo + TxUSB-Ultra combo, I prefer use of HQPlayer (either PCM 768KHz / LNS15 / Sinc-Long or DSD512 AMSDM7EC 512+fx / gauss-xla).

Instead, when I use the oM / oR + TxUSB-Ultra combo, I prefer just using Roon and excluding HQPlayer.

 

Preamp: VAC Renaissance Mk V

Amps: Parasound JC1+ monos

Speakers: Focal Maestro Utopia

 

 

I second that , rendu vs ultra neo, the latter is a bit more full bodied and less detailed. I have not tried a USB reclocker on top of that still, but have since upgraded the ultra neo for the all upgrades version, and actually the two streamers sound more alike now. I cant wait to try a external clock with the ultraneo though, was supposed to have happened this week but the dealer didnt fit me in his visit to my city

[Assisi]

My understanding is that the 'A' in AOC means it is active.  Therefore low power is present.  My experience is that once power is present anywhere then there will be a settling in period.  There was a small improvement with my Cisco genuine AOC over a few days.  The Cisco is better than any other several optical connection options I have tried.  It is used to connect SOtM and Melco switches.  The signal is 100mgbs.

John

[Cormorant]

In my system the Cisco SFP-10G-AOC is too dark.  The Finisar 1475D3BTL transceivers are too bright.

 

But the tone on the fs.com Cisco compatible AOC is just right!

 

https://www.fs.com/products/30890.html

 

[TRHH]

There is a lot of discussions about what SFP to use but almost no information what FMC is used.

 

Currently I am using LevelOne GVT-2000 (FMC) - see below.

 

 Would be interesting to hear what other users are using. So, what FMC are you using?

 

Torben

[Cormorant]

33 minutes ago, TRHH said:

 Would be interesting to hear what other users are using. So, what FMC are you using?

 

Sonore opticalModule Deluxe, of course.

[fmzip]

I use a Mictrotik Switch that has an SFP port, no need for an  FMC any longer