UpTone Audio USB Regen Listening Impressions

[classfolkphile]

I'm glad to hear the Regen is making a difference in front of such esteemed converters as the Berkeley. And glad to read that at least one earlier poster said it improved the sound in front of his AR-T Legato, which I also own. Looking forward to receiving my Amber (early August it looks like) and will post my impressions thereafter.

[Daudio]

I'm glad to hear the Regen is making a difference in front of such esteemed converters as the Berkeley. And glad to read that at least one earlier poster said it improved the sound in front of his AR-T Legato, which I also own. Looking forward to receiving my Amber (early August it looks like) and will post my impressions thereafter.

 

From all I've read while following the Regen threads, what DAC is used downstream is immaterial. With the exception of only a couple of products, the DAC behind the Regen makes no difference to the SQ contribution of that little accessory. Each DAC has its own SQ signature, which is the base level, then the Regen seems to add to that base level. through I suppose it would be possible for a DAC with very poor SQ to mask Regen improvements. But DACs of that low quality are probably few and far between in the group of CA audiophiles reporting on their Regen SQ experiences

 

I haven't seen any convincing evidence of interactions between the sound of a downstream DAC, and that of the Regen. Of course the same can not be said of interactions between, USB sources/cards, USB cables and associated power supplies

[Jud]

From all I've read while following the Regen threads, what DAC is used downstream is immaterial. With the exception of only a couple of products, the DAC behind the Regen makes no difference to the SQ contribution of that little accessory. Each DAC has its own SQ signature, which is the base level, then the Regen seems to add to that base level. through I suppose it would be possible for a DAC with very poor SQ to mask Regen improvements. But DACs of that low quality are probably few and far between in the group of CA audiophiles reporting on their Regen SQ experiences

 

I haven't seen any convincing evidence of interactions between the sound of a downstream DAC, and that of the Regen. Of course the same can not be said of interactions between, USB sources/cards, USB cables and associated power supplies

 

It may even be the reverse (more relative improvement in less exotic/expensive DACs).

[classfolkphile]

From all I've read while following the Regen threads, what DAC is used downstream is immaterial. With the exception of only a couple of products, the DAC behind the Regen makes no difference to the SQ contribution of that little accessory. Each DAC has its own SQ signature, which is the base level, then the Regen seems to add to that base level. through I suppose it would be possible for a DAC with very poor SQ to mask Regen improvements. But DACs of that low quality are probably few and far between in the group of CA audiophiles reporting on their Regen SQ experiences

 

I haven't seen any convincing evidence of interactions between the sound of a downstream DAC, and that of the Regen. Of course the same can not be said of interactions between, USB sources/cards, USB cables and associated power supplies

 

 

I should have specified I meant the Berkeley USB-SPDIF converter, not the DAC. The Legato is also only a USB-SPDIF converter.

[kennyb123]

I haven't seen any convincing evidence of interactions between the sound of a downstream DAC, and that of the Regen.

 

Yes it has seemed the DAC matters not at all. The big factor seems to be what's feeding the REGEN.

[toast]

This is a stunning statement "what DAC is used downstream is immaterial ". I'm truly intrigue. Can the SQ performance of inexpensive DACs be brought up close to high end DACs by this little UpTone Audio Regen?

[Daudio]

This is a stunning statement "what DAC is used downstream is immaterial ". I'm truly intrigue. Can the SQ performance of inexpensive DACs be brought up close to high end DACs by this little UpTone Audio Regen?

 

toasty,

 

I said that I thought poor SQ DACs would only detract from the Regen's contribution (masking), as well as still having their own intrinsic poor performance. I have no data on this specifically, but the other things I've gleaned from the rich vein of posts here in CA

 

I made an educated guess, and Jud had a more optimistic guess. We'll just have to keep an eye out for those kind of reports to show up.

 

But, I have little chance of identifying a 'good' versus a 'poor' DAC. There are just too damn many of them. No way will I waste my time trying to keep track of a product category that spawns new models, like mushrooms. I feel the same abut box speakers, only worse Of course, I do know a fair number of the popular and hi-end stuff.

[toddrhodes]

Well, Amber arrived yesterday and today I carved out some time from cleaning up after our daughter's first birthday party to listen to it. However, I'm having an issue I cannot seem to resolve. My audio PC is running dual boot of Windows 7 Ultimate and Server 2012R2. Greatly preferring R2, I wanted to try out Regen in that OS but it seems for some reason, I now have a driver conflict on my Schiit Gungnir which I had to manually install the drivers in the first place. I don't know if Audiophile Optimizer (recently installed) may have changed something in my server config or what, but since Windows no longer recognizes my Gungnir, I can't exactly try out Regen. Up to now I've been using Toslink to my DAC as it was far better than USB into the Gungnir, which has the Rev2 USB board in it, but it still is no match for Toslink. I was hoping a Supra cable + Regen might level the playing field.

 

I tried to be a good sport and booted back to Windows 7 and listened there, but I got through two songs and just switched back to R2, thinking I would have to find a solution to this driver issue eventually. Four hours later and I'm no closer to a resolution. So who knows when I'll be able to hear this thing.

[Jud]

This is a stunning statement "what DAC is used downstream is immaterial ". I'm truly intrigue. Can the SQ performance of inexpensive DACs be brought up close to high end DACs by this little UpTone Audio Regen?

 

No, it's not a miracle. But the opportunity for improvement in an inexpensive DAC may be relatively greater than in a DAC that is already excellent.

[JohnSwenson]

Well, Amber arrived yesterday and today I carved out some time from cleaning up after our daughter's first birthday party to listen to it. However, I'm having an issue I cannot seem to resolve. My audio PC is running dual boot of Windows 7 Ultimate and Server 2012R2. Greatly preferring R2, I wanted to try out Regen in that OS but it seems for some reason, I now have a driver conflict on my Schiit Gungnir which I had to manually install the drivers in the first place. I don't know if Audiophile Optimizer (recently installed) may have changed something in my server config or what, but since Windows no longer recognizes my Gungnir, I can't exactly try out Regen. Up to now I've been using Toslink to my DAC as it was far better than USB into the Gungnir, which has the Rev2 USB board in it, but it still is no match for Toslink. I was hoping a Supra cable + Regen might level the playing field.

 

I tried to be a good sport and booted back to Windows 7 and listened there, but I got through two songs and just switched back to R2, thinking I would have to find a solution to this driver issue eventually. Four hours later and I'm no closer to a resolution. So who knows when I'll be able to hear this thing.

 

A few questions, is the Gungnir a UAC2 DAC and the driver you are refering to a windows UAC2 driver or is it a driver for a custom protocol? (if you don't know the answer, the easy way to tell is: does the DAC require a drive for a Mac, if it does not then the DAC is using UAC2, OSX provides a UAC2 driver and Microsoft has flatly refused to do that in windows)

 

You mention a driver conflict, what driver is it conflicting with?

 

Thanks,

 

John S.

[toddrhodes]

A few questions, is the Gungnir a UAC2 DAC and the driver you are refering to a windows UAC2 driver or is it a driver for a custom protocol? (if you don't know the answer, the easy way to tell is: does the DAC require a drive for a Mac, if it does not then the DAC is using UAC2, OSX provides a UAC2 driver and Microsoft has flatly refused to do that in windows)

 

You mention a driver conflict, what driver is it conflicting with?

 

Thanks,

 

John S.

 

High John - I sorted it, kind of. I reset AO to "no optimization" and was able to install the driver after a reboot so something AO is doing is definitely conflicting. As far as what the driver is conflicting with? I think it's conflicting with some sort of Windows Service which gets disabled. I need to play around more with the "Ultimate" mode of configuration in AO so I have finer control over what stays enabled vs what gets disabled. That should allow me to narrow down the specific service or driver being shut down. What I can tell you is the driver provided by Schiit is a Windows 8.1 compatible CMEDIA USB audio device driver. To my knowledge, Schiit gear does not require drivers in OSX but not having a Mac I honestly haven't paid close attention to that.

 

HOWEVER - now that I have it working, even without AO running, I can say quite flatly that Regen + Supra from my onboard USB ports does seem to level the playing field against my old Optical connection. I do detect just the slightest bit of harshness when I've got it turned up to "fun" levels. This is not concerning considering the unit is exactly 4 songs old. It's also coming from a motherboard USB port and AO isn't running so essentially I have a baseline now and I like it.

 

This also furthers (and reinforces) my decision to move forward with 2012R2. Music just jumps out at you, it's as if my equipment had a 6th gear all along and 2012 exposes it. It's incredible, really. If I boot back to Win7 and play the same tracks at the same volume, they just feel lifeless in comparison.

 

So hey, happy days ahead, I'll be picking up the SOtM USB card I believe, as well as some type of external power supply (or the upcoming Uptone unit) for Regen now that I know from whence it begins.

 

And, ultimately, replacing the Gungnir with something from Lampizator.

[toddrhodes]

So I reconfigured AO in "Ultimate Mode" and unfortunately I didn't write down all of my choices but I KNOW I elected to keep Windows Management Instrumentation and a specific USB Driver thing they mention in the configuration (the specific name escapes me) enabled and now after a reboot I still have my Schiit USB device and AO and Regen all working. Now to go back to listening

[jexby]

I'd recommend hanging onto Gungnir until some potential upgrade options are announced near Aug 15. Keep your Regen tho.

[toddrhodes]

I'd recommend hanging onto Gungnir until some potential upgrade options are announced near Aug 15. Keep your Regen tho.

 

Ahhh yes, a very fair point, thank you for the reminder! I didn't realize those were being announced so soon. If I picked up a Lampi (looking at the Amber) it would be for the seamless DSD/PCM switching. Otherwise I'd go Yggdrasil but either way, I'd keep both the newbie and Gungnir in case I couldn't justify the price increase based on performance increase...

[sdolezalek]

My Regen arrived this week, so the weekend gave me a chance to give it some listening time. Overall impression is positive, but in my system the Regen seems to move the balance a bit darker (less air on the highs, more bass emphasis). Has anyone else experienced this?

[Al Jones]

Spent Sunday comparing four Regen PS options. Here are the results in ascending order:

 

Mean Well SMPS

 

Chinese LPS 9V 3.3A

 

Mean Well SMPS with SBooster Ultra Regen add-on

 

SBooster BOTW P&P ECO LPS 6V 1.75A

 

With each step up, incremental improvements in terms of openness, detail, precision and 3-D solidity were readily apparent.

 

Jumping directly from the Mean Well SMPS to the SBooster LPS is a jarring experience.

 

The substantial differences mean that there is simply no going back and forces me to wonder if there is further untapped potential in the Regen.

[Solstice380]

My Regen arrived this week, so the weekend gave me a chance to give it some listening time. Overall impression is positive, but in my system the Regen seems to move the balance a bit darker (less air on the highs, more bass emphasis). Has anyone else experienced this?

 

The REGEN cleaned up the bass in my system and it lets the high end air and decay through, it just seems "softer" I think that's because the "sizzle" is way down. There have been a few discussions here about why the bass or treble should get affected by the types of issues the REGEN addresses, but no real conclusions (other than it reduces the work that the USB receiver in the DAC has to do and maybe cleaner 5V if used by the DAC). The reduction in sizzle may be our listening history... We have listened to bad digital for so long we are used to that zing that is potentially not really from the music/recording but from our equipment. When it's not there we wonder if the sound is wrong. That may be why some people think DSD is "soft". I don't have to turn up the volume as high now to hear more in my music. I think that's a good sign!

[Guidof]

My Regen arrived this week, so the weekend gave me a chance to give it some listening time. Overall impression is positive, but in my system the Regen seems to move the balance a bit darker (less air on the highs, more bass emphasis). Has anyone else experienced this?

 

I haven't. If anything, in my system the Regen contributes *more* air and *tighter* bass.

 

Guido F.

[sdolezalek]

The REGEN cleaned up the bass in my system and it lets the high end air and decay through, it just seems "softer" I think that's because the "sizzle" is way down. There have been a few discussions here about why the bass or treble should get affected by the types of issues the REGEN addresses, but no real conclusions (other than it reduces the work that the USB receiver in the DAC has to do and maybe cleaner 5V if used by the DAC). The reduction in sizzle may be our listening history... We have listened to bad digital for so long we are used to that zing that is potentially not really from the music/recording but from our equipment. When it's not there we wonder if the sound is wrong. That may be why some people think DSD is "soft". I don't have to turn up the volume as high now to hear more in my music. I think that's a good sign!

 

There is no question that the Regen tightened up the bass in my system (much more clarity in the lowest ranges). You may also be right about the "sizzle" because in pieces without much bass information the high-end clarity is absolutely there. As someone else said, the Regen brought forward the differences in HQPlayer settings. I have been using miner with Audirvana, but I too may need to play with the iZotope settings to find a new "best" when using the Regen.

[satfrat]

Spent Sunday comparing four Regen PS options. Here are the results in ascending order:

 

Mean Well SMPS

 

Chinese LPS 9V 3.3A

 

Mean Well SMPS with SBooster Ultra Regen add-on

 

SBooster BOTW P&P ECO LPS 6V 1.75A

 

With each step up, incremental improvements in terms of openness, detail, precision and 3-D solidity were readily apparent.

 

Jumping directly from the Mean Well SMPS to the SBooster LPS is a jarring experience.

 

The substantial differences mean that there is simply no going back and forces me to wonder if there is further untapped potential in the Regen.

 

A better description of what you heard with each PS would have been nice, especially the SBooster Ultra which "at this time" seems to be the best way to improve the provided Mean Well SMPS without actually replacing it.

[AndreasB]

Dear Al Jones,

 

What is your ranking in figures for the different quality levels to be achieved also taking into account the price per unit for example the Booster Ultra cost approx. € 65,00 and the complete unit & LPS by the same Dutch company approx. €320,00 ?

 

For example ranking 1<=> 10.

The question remains how does this rank to much more expensive JS-2 Linear Power Supply

Thanks in advance

 

Spent Sunday comparing four Regen PS options. Here are the results in ascending order:

 

Mean Well SMPS

 

Chinese LPS 9V 3.3A

 

Mean Well SMPS with SBooster Ultra Regen add-on

 

SBooster BOTW P&P ECO LPS 6V 1.75A

 

With each step up, incremental improvements in terms of openness, detail, precision and 3-D solidity were readily apparent.

 

Jumping directly from the Mean Well SMPS to the SBooster LPS is a jarring experience.

 

The substantial differences mean that there is simply no going back and forces me to wonder if there is further untapped potential in the Regen.

[Theobetley]

I agree more air top to bottom, tighter bass bigger sound space.

 

 

I haven't. If anything, in my system the Regen contributes *more* air and *tighter* bass.

 

Guido F.

[Al Jones]

As for "better descriptions", I can refer you to #495 where I offer first impressions of the Regen and #695 where I compare Regen alone and Regen with the two cheaper SBooster add-ons, the passive SBooster Single Unit and the active SBooster Ultra Regen.

 

Basically, each step of the upgrade path I described offers more of the same kinds of improvements, so I chose not to bore everyone with effervescent verbiage.

 

As for "ranking in figures, taking into account price per unit", value for money will always depend on what you're able/willing to spend and numerical differences are highly subjective, but I will attempt to roughly quantify the improvements I hear.

 

Taking the solo Regen as baseline 100:

 

120 Chinese LPS

 

135 Mean Well SMPS + SBooster Ultra Regen

 

155 SBooster 6V LPS

 

Incidentally, the SBooster LPS is €250.

[satfrat]

As for "better descriptions", I can refer you to #495 where I offer first impressions of the Regen and #695 where I compare Regen alone and Regen with the two cheaper SBooster add-ons, the passive SBooster Single Unit and the active SBooster Ultra Regen.

 

Basically, each step of the upgrade path I described offers more of the same kinds of improvements, so I chose not to bore everyone with effervescent verbiage.

 

As for "ranking in figures, taking into account price per unit", value for money will always depend on what you're able/willing to spend and numerical differences are highly subjective, but I will attempt to roughly quantify the improvements I hear.

 

Taking the solo Regen as baseline 100:

 

120 Chinese LPS

 

135 Mean Well SMPS + SBooster Ultra Regen

 

155 SBooster 6V LPS

 

Incidentally, the SBooster LPS is €250.

 

Thanks for pointing out your prior post, I totally missed it. The Sbooster and Sbooster Ultra sounds like the real deal for those not looking to replacing the Mean Well SMPS for a much more expensive linear PS. I especially like how you've rated the SBooster Ultra over the cheap Ebay linear PS. I was surprised by that as it's always assumed a linear PS will sound better than any SMPS, regardless of price. Good to know.

[JohnSwenson]

Thanks for pointing out your prior post, I totally missed it. The Sbooster and Sbooster Ultra sounds like the real deal for those not looking to replacing the Mean Well SMPS for a much more expensive linear PS. I especially like how you've rated the SBooster Ultra over the cheap Ebay linear PS. I was surprised by that as it's always assumed a linear PS will sound better than any SMPS, regardless of price. Good to know.

 

There are a couple things going on here.

 

Some people seem to have systems that are very sensitive to the 50-60KHz noise injected back into the AC mains, for these systems ANY SMPS is bad and to be avoided.

 

Other people have systems that don't seem to notice this noise on the AC at all, or only very marginally. For these people the quality of the output is far more important than whether it is SMPS or not.

 

I posted the cheap linear for those people that have systems that are highly sensitive to SMPS, the supply does not inject the 50-60KHz back into the line so the system will sound better just by doing that.

 

For most digital audio applications how a supply responds to transients is the most important aspect, the Sbooster products (particularly the more expensive ones), do help with this, and I would expect the results to be better than what any cheap linear could hope to achieve. (BTW the Sbooster products will also work with the linears too)

 

So unfortunately there are no hard and fast rules, what works best in one system may be entirely the wrong thing in someone else's system.

 

John S.