The "Official" Aurender Discussion Thread

[GJo]

17 hours ago, NTWrong said:

Agreed. It isn’t a valid reason not to buy an Aurender product. As I said before, I listen to music, I don’t buy hi-end audio components to play with the app.

I've digested and ruminated over your comment for a day as I thought of how to reply.

 

Yes, we all listen to music, and we all enjoy excellent reproduction of music, which is what led us to Aurender products.

 

We have this in common. It's why we're here participating in this thread.

 

Whatever app is used to play music on our streaming devices, the app is the interface to that device, and by default the gateway to our music. So, at some level, we all "play" with the app as we search for tracks, or create playlists, or perhaps discover new music.

 

When I dove fully into streaming several years ago, a massive benefit to me of streaming was the vast resource it was to hearing new music. Yes, I enjoy my existing collection, but I enjoy even more discovering new music: new artists, artists' deep catalog, historical recordings, new recordings. My exposure to new music discovery has been vast since I began streaming.

 

As one who has long been primarily focused on melody, counterpoint, and theme, I was only secondarily interested in lyrics. However, the app I have used for streaming...controlling my music selection and playback...has opened my eyes to lyrics as they have become available to see scrolling as a track plays (if I choose to see them).

 

This universe of musical exploration was opened to me through subscriptions to Qobuz and Roon.  

 

As one who has used several streaming apps including Audirvana, Innuos Sense, JPlay, iPeng, Conductor and Roon, I have found that Roon offers more complete musical exploration and enjoyment than any other streaming app. 

 

If using a computer web search application to learn more about a subject is considered playing with the computer, then I am guilty. By extension, if using a streaming app to search/research music or artists is considered playing with a streaming app, then I am guilty of that as well.

 

Aurender hardware enhances the pleasure of listening to music, and I do not separate the hardware from the software as far as their relative contribution to my enjoyment. However, if my only exposure to streaming was via Qobuz and Conductor, then I'm certain I would have missed out on a personally more fulfilling musical journey. 

[DancingSea]

2 hours ago, GJo said:

I've digested and ruminated over your comment for a day as I thought of how to reply.

 

Yes, we all listen to music, and we all enjoy excellent reproduction of music, which is what led us to Aurender products.

 

We have this in common. It's why we're here participating in this thread.

 

Whatever app is used to play music on our streaming devices, the app is the interface to that device, and by default the gateway to our music. So, at some level, we all "play" with the app as we search for tracks, or create playlists, or perhaps discover new music.

 

When I dove fully into streaming several years ago, a massive benefit to me of streaming was the vast resource it was to hearing new music. Yes, I enjoy my existing collection, but I enjoy even more discovering new music: new artists, artists' deep catalog, historical recordings, new recordings. My exposure to new music discovery has been vast since I began streaming.

 

As one who has long been primarily focused on melody, counterpoint, and theme, I was only secondarily interested in lyrics. However, the app I have used for streaming...controlling my music selection and playback...has opened my eyes to lyrics as they have become available to see scrolling as a track plays (if I choose to see them).

 

This universe of musical exploration was opened to me through subscriptions to Qobuz and Roon.  

 

As one who has used several streaming apps including Audirvana, Innuos Sense, JPlay, iPeng, Conductor and Roon, I have found that Roon offers more complete musical exploration and enjoyment than any other streaming app. 

 

If using a computer web search application to learn more about a subject is considered playing with the computer, then I am guilty. By extension, if using a streaming app to search/research music or artists is considered playing with a streaming app, then I am guilty of that as well.

 

Aurender hardware enhances the pleasure of listening to music, and I do not separate the hardware from the software as far as their relative contribution to my enjoyment. However, if my only exposure to streaming was via Qobuz and Conductor, then I'm certain I would have missed out on a personally more fulfilling musical journey. 

 

Very thoughtful and well expressed post.  Yes, whatever app we use to listen to music is instrumental (I know, music pun) to that experience.  We don't listen to the app, but it's through the app that we are able to listen to music.

 

I've found that often if one expresses a criticism of a product on these type of forums, like clockwork, there will be a faction who will blindly come to defend it.  Brand loyalty runs deep and often overrides a dispassionate, neutral evaluation.

 

I have a long history with Roon, driven by equal parts admiration and disappointment.  Because it must run on a Roon core, which is nearly always a separate computer or NUC, I find its sound quality lacking compared to something like Conductor.  Yes, Aurender is adding Roon integration, but they aren't turning Aurenders into Roon Cores, thus I speculate the Roon sound quality issue will not be solved.

 

And so it goes.  At least for now, we must pick one lane or the other, library wizardry or superior sound quality.  In this particular phase, I'm hitching my horse to sound quality, but I do miss Roon.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, DancingSea said:

I've found that often if one expresses a criticism of a product on these type of forums, like clockwork, there will be a faction who will blindly come to defend it.  Brand loyalty runs deep and often overrides a dispassionate, neutral evaluation

I’ve found this to work both ways. Those expressing criticism often don’t have the experience that the others do, with the app being criticized. It’s often this lack of experience that shows and causes others to jump in and express displeasure. 
 

Those criticizing often use very general terms that can only be responded to in generalities as well. It’s much more helpful to suggest something like, I dislike how the add to queue feature works, here’s why and here’s what I would do to make it better. 

[DancingSea]

27 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I’ve found this to work both ways. Those expressing criticism often don’t have the experience that the others do, with the app being criticized. It’s often this lack of experience that shows and causes others to jump in and express displeasure. 
 

Those criticizing often use very general terms that can only be responded to in generalities as well. It’s much more helpful to suggest something like, I dislike how the add to queue feature works, here’s why and here’s what I would do to make it better. 

 

Fair enough.  However, I am extremely experienced with nearly all Mac based music library software and with Conductor, the list of GUI woes is so long - and this forum is not a place where an exhaustive point by point list is likely to ever reach the Aurender engineers - engineers who seem unconcerned with a dated GUI.  And for that reason, there's little point in going into a Conductor treatise here.  

 

There will be some who agree with me here.  And others who do not, who are satisfied with Conductor as it is.  So be it.  I have no desire to convince them otherwise.  What one likes, what is "good enough" is a personal decision.

 

If my position on the issue is not yet clear, I'm happy to repeat my thoughts on Conductor 😂

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, DancingSea said:

I have no desire to convince them otherwise.

Smart man. No matter the topic or opinion, it never goes well. 
 

I do find it helps to be as specific as possible when talking about things that people are likely to take issue with. It just cuts down on so many arguments. 

[NTWrong]

9 hours ago, GJo said:

I've digested and ruminated over your comment for a day as I thought of how to reply.

 

… However, the app I have used for streaming...controlling my music selection and playback...has opened my eyes to lyrics as they have become available to see scrolling as a track plays (if I choose to see them).

 

This universe of musical exploration was opened to me through subscriptions to Qobuz and Roon.  

 

As one who has used several streaming apps including Audirvana, Innuos Sense, JPlay, iPeng, Conductor and Roon, I have found that Roon offers more complete musical exploration and enjoyment than any other streaming app. 

 

…  if my only exposure to streaming was via Qobuz and Conductor, then I'm certain I would have missed out on a personally more fulfilling musical journey. 

Hey, GJo, thanks for that reply. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my comment in such a well-considered, informative way. I wouldn’t presume to argue with your experience as you’ve described it.

 

Your orientation to the listening experience is fundamentally different from mine. I’m not interested in streaming. I can find music in other ways, just following my inclinations wherever they lead me over time. Meanwhile, I have thousands of songs that I love and continue to get pleasure from. So I purchased the N200 knowing I would use it almost exclusively to play music from the user-installed SSDs, loaded with music selected by me personally.
 

This approach to music playback isn’t a new experience for me. I’ve been using a Bryston BDP for about a decade now. The Bryston software has been widely criticized for reasons similar to the criticisms of the Conductor app. It didn’t bother me then, with Bryston, and it doesn’t bother me now, with Auremder, because I want to control and curate my musical experience for myself. I’m content to put in the effort necessary to do so. 
 

So — I have a different objective and therefore I require something different—something less, I suppose—from the user interface. 
 

And I’ve been listening to similar criticisms for years. It strikes me (excepting you) as myopic, as if the superior sound quality wasn’t the real point of buying such an expensive piece of audiophile gear. 
 

Your response is the first one that got through to me as presenting a substantive argument — though you weren’t so much shooting down the Conductor app, as explaining how using Roon has enriched your audio experience. So I now get it, at least with respect to your experience. Thanks for educating me. 

[NTWrong]

7 hours ago, DancingSea said:

I've found that often if one expresses a criticism of a product on these type of forums, like clockwork, there will be a faction who will blindly come to defend it.  Brand loyalty runs deep and often overrides a dispassionate, neutral evaluation.

 

I have a long history with Roon, driven by equal parts admiration and disappointment.  Because it must run on a Roon core, which is nearly always a separate computer or NUC, I find its sound quality lacking compared to something like Conductor.

For the record, I’m not an Aurender fan boy and I wasn’t defending the Conductor app blindly. No offence taken; I just want to be clear that my opinion is an informed one, although the comment itself was brief and perhaps too glibly dismissive. 
 

I was never interested in Roon but, even if I had intended to stream music, the criticism of Roon’s sound quality would have steered me in another direction. That’s what annoyed me: the idea that someone would be more concerned with the quality of the app than with the product’s sound quality. 
 

Besides, I’ve read multiple reviews by professional reviewers who spoke favourably about their experience with Conductor. It’s clear from everything I’ve read that Roon has developed an exceptionally good product with their app—and good on them for doing so! But my impression is that the Conductor app is the equal, or nearly so, of most other companies’ apps. (I also saw a lot of favourable commentary on the Innuos app. Enough to suggest that it might also be superior to Conductor, though evidently not on the level of the Roon interface.)

 

So I do think the criticism of Conductor is overblown. And my opinion is informed by a considerable amount of research that I put in before I put down my money to purchase the N200. So not blind.

[GJo]

8 minutes ago, NTWrong said:

For the record, I’m not an Aurender fan boy and I wasn’t defending the Conductor app blindly. No offence taken; I just want to be clear that my opinion is an informed one, although the comment itself was brief and perhaps too glibly dismissive. 
 

I was never interested in Roon but, even if I had intended to stream music, the criticism of Roon’s sound quality would have steered me in another direction. That’s what annoyed me: the idea that someone would be more concerned with the quality of the app than with the product’s sound quality. 
 

Besides, I’ve read multiple reviews by professional reviewers who spoke favourably about their experience with Conductor. It’s clear from everything I’ve read that Roon has developed an exceptionally good product with their app—and good on them for doing so! But my impression is that the Conductor app is the equal, or nearly so, of most other companies’ apps. (I also saw a lot of favourable commentary on the Innuos app. Enough to suggest that it might also be superior to Conductor, though evidently not on the level of the Roon interface.)

 

So I do think the criticism of Conductor is overblown. And my opinion is informed by a considerable amount of research that I put in before I put down my money to purchase the N200. So not blind.

Thank you for your explanation of what music source you use. That opened a window to your listening paradigm and made me realize that Aurender owners aren't necessarily streaming content at all.

 

Indeed, there is no reason for you to use any control app than Conductor.

[DancingSea]

34 minutes ago, NTWrong said:

But my impression is that the Conductor app is the equal, or nearly so, of most other companies’ apps. (I also saw a lot of favourable commentary on the Innuos app. Enough to suggest that it might also be superior to Conductor, though evidently not on the level of the Roon interface.)

 

I agree, Conductor is competitive with all 3rd party apps not named Roon, and Conductor is the best of the hardware manufacturers developed apps. 
 

Though I see no harm in pushing Conductor to be yet better. 

[Ecki]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:11 AM, GJo said:

Adding a Mutec REF10 Master Clock in a couple days. Am curious to hear what it does with the N30SA. I can also use it with my Esoteric disc player. 

I have a similar configuration, a CD player / DAC without a clock input, the N30SA and have been thinking about the Mutec Ref10 too. Please share your findings. 

[KINS]

In my opinion, it’s will change anything at all or may be worse. The clock in N30SA is just perfect, therefore it may be improved with external Word Clock but… If you don »t have each and every digital equipement in your system controlled with it it’s will not benefit.

[jrsub]

Anyone else have an issue with some categories under "album" showing no results starting with the last couple Conductor V4 releases?  What happens is that a category such as favorites or new releases will show no results while other categories such as best sellers will show full results.   I use Qobuz and have verified from their web site that my favorites list exists.    I have contacted support about this issue.

[GJo]

I've been doing a little more digging into the use of a Mutec REF10 in my system, which has a DAC without a word clock input.

 

It appears to use the REF10 maximally would require the addition of a Mutec MC3+ (or MC3+USB) as an input/output hub, whereby the REF10 would send clock data to my disc player (clock input), the MC3+, and the N30SA.

 

Then, digital audio output from the disc player (RCA s/pdif) and N30SA (AES or USB) would go to the MC3+ (or MC3+USB). Then, the MC3+ (or MC3+USB) would send digital audio out to my DAC via AES or USB. Do I have this correctly?

 

If an MC3+ (rather than an MC3+USB) is used, then an additional AES cable would be required.

 

Seems to me like a lot of extra processing through the MC3+ (or MC3+USB) that could muck up the sound.

[NTWrong]

25 minutes ago, GJo said:

Seems to me like a lot of extra processing through the MC3+ (or MC3+USB) that could muck up the sound.

I have no experience with external clocks, so this isn’t an informed opinion. But FWIW, you’d have additional processing and an additional cable (as you mention) plus an additional power supply (for the MC3+).
 

The manufacturers work so hard to eliminate noise from power supplies, it seems a shame to introduce another one into the digital chain. 

[GJo]

@NTWrong, your comments are noted.

 

Flow chart as an addendum to my Mutec REF10/MC3+USB post above, although the scenario in the Mutec REF10 manual shows clock connections to all devices versus only one connection to the MC3+USB.

 

[XCop5089]

One issue that has niggled me about the Aurender Conductor App in the year that I have owned my N20 and ripped music to the SSD's I have installed - Missing artwork based on how the album is named!

 

To explain further, I ripped a compilation album I own, titled "... With Love"

 

The three dots that begin the album name seem to be highly relevant, as I have been unable to locate this album in any folder on the SSD's, using my MacBook Pro laptop and the "Finder" function!

 

The display of this album on the Conductor App (Apple iPad) states that the file route is "Music2/Various Artists" but when this folder is interrogated, there is no album titled "... With Love"

 

I first noticed this, when I went to add album art from a file on my computer (see below) using the dbPoweramp "Perfect Tunes" software.

 

Does anyone please have any suggestions as to why this particular album, remains "invisible?"

 

 

 

[Buzzer]

5 hours ago, XCop5089 said:

One issue that has niggled me about the Aurender Conductor App in the year that I have owned my N20 and ripped music to the SSD's I have installed - Missing artwork based on how the album is named!

 

To explain further, I ripped a compilation album I own, titled "... With Love"

 

The three dots that begin the album name seem to be highly relevant, as I have been unable to locate this album in any folder on the SSD's, using my MacBook Pro laptop and the "Finder" function!

 

The display of this album on the Conductor App (Apple iPad) states that the file route is "Music2/Various Artists" but when this folder is interrogated, there is no album titled "... With Love"

 

I first noticed this, when I went to add album art from a file on my computer (see below) using the dbPoweramp "Perfect Tunes" software.

 

Does anyone please have any suggestions as to why this particular album, remains "invisible?"

 

 

 

Just a guess.  The software may not like those three dots.  

[Ecki]

Quote

Seems to me like a lot of extra processing through the MC3+ (or MC3+USB) that could muck up the sound.

There is no processing. Normally this is done with a simple counter / devisor per output channel. Important would be that the resulting MC3 signal has the same ultra low jitter as the Ref10.

 

I have a rather simple configuration. The Mutec Ref10 would provide the 10Mhz master clock to the N30SA. The connection to the DAC is AES/EBU so the DAC would be clocked by the input signal. 
 

With the N30SA I have not heard any difference between my switched network and a direct feed to my internet gateway. I think the Ethernet isolation of the N30SA is very good and network optimisation should have a rather small effect. 

 

[GJo]

2 hours ago, Ecki said:

There is no processing. Normally this is done with a simple counter / devisor per output channel. Important would be that the resulting MC3 signal has the same ultra low jitter as the Ref10.

 

The point is using an MC3+, the digital signal enters an input and exits an output. Between those I/O are connections and circuitry. Plus, the addition of another cable.

 

I'm not certain that's the best use of resources for my simple system.

[SirAtilla]

On 1/28/2024 at 11:32 AM, XCop5089 said:

One issue that has niggled me about the Aurender Conductor App in the year that I have owned my N20 and ripped music to the SSD's I have installed - Missing artwork based on how the album is named!

 

To explain further, I ripped a compilation album I own, titled "... With Love"

 

The three dots that begin the album name seem to be highly relevant, as I have been unable to locate this album in any folder on the SSD's, using my MacBook Pro laptop and the "Finder" function!

 

The display of this album on the Conductor App (Apple iPad) states that the file route is "Music2/Various Artists" but when this folder is interrogated, there is no album titled "... With Love"

 

I first noticed this, when I went to add album art from a file on my computer (see below) using the dbPoweramp "Perfect Tunes" software.

 

Does anyone please have any suggestions as to why this particular album, remains "invisible?"

 

 

 

 

It's because those three dots at beginning of folder name while technically valid means the folder will be hidden on the linux OS on the Aurender and ignored.

 

Since you use dBpoweramp I would suggest altering your filename formula and pasted in the formula I use for reference.

 

[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[IFCOMP]Various Artists[][IF!COMP][artist][][]/[album]/[IFMULTI][SETLEN]2,48,,[disc][]-[][track] [title]

 

Using this formula the three periods would be removed at the folder level - Aurender will show the correct album name from the embedded metadata.

 

Hope this helps.

[NTWrong]

Would it work just to place brackets around the three dots? I haven’t run into this issue but you never know, it might happen sometime! 

[stefano_mbp]

1 minute ago, NTWrong said:

Would it work just to place brackets around the three dots? I haven’t run into this issue but you never know, it might happen sometime! 

As I can understand the folder name is the issue but not the metadata (Album tag), then you can name the folder as you like as anyway the Album tag is the one significant 

[jrsub]

On 1/28/2024 at 5:33 AM, jrsub said:

Anyone else have an issue with some categories under "album" showing no results starting with the last couple Conductor V4 releases?  What happens is that a category such as favorites or new releases will show no results while other categories such as best sellers will show full results.   I use Qobuz and have verified from their web site that my favorites list exists.    I have contacted support about this issue.

FYI - Support indicated that they found  filtering bug in Conductor V4 and have reported it to engineering.

[XCop5089]

21 hours ago, SirAtilla said:

 

It's because those three dots at beginning of folder name while technically valid means the folder will be hidden on the linux OS on the Aurender and ignored.

 

Since you use dBpoweramp I would suggest altering your filename formula and pasted in the formula I use for reference.

 

[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[IFCOMP]Various Artists[][IF!COMP][artist][][]/[album]/[IFMULTI][SETLEN]2,48,,[disc][]-[][track] [title]

 

Using this formula the three periods would be removed at the folder level - Aurender will show the correct album name from the embedded metadata.

 

Hope this helps.

Thanks

 

I really appreciate your answer, but I am not particularly confident with computers (hurtling towards 70) so I would please ask that you spell it out for me!

 

The album "...with love" appears on my iPad (Conductor App) with no artwork. It can be selected and the tracks played perfectly!

 

The problem for me, is that when I look for the folder containing the album, to add artwork, using Perfect Tunes software, it is not visible under the path as displayed by the Conductor App (Music2/Various Artists), so any amendment to the meta data is impossible!

 

With the formula you have kindly detailed, do I copy and paste this somewhere? If so, where? - dbPoweramp, Perfect Tunes, CD Ripper etc.?

 

Apologies for my lack of computer knowledge, but I can grasp the basics, but just need a bit of 'hand-holding" to achieve what many others take for granted!

[SirAtilla]

The easiest thing is just remove the three periods in front of the folder name.  On computer connect to the Music2 storage over the network to the Aurender.  Select the folder and remove the periods in the folder name.

 

PerfectTUNES should see it now and you can add the artwork at that point.  Note that in PerfectTUNES you can configure whether artwork is embedded or placed as a file in the folder along with the music files.  If you choose the latter the files should be folder.jpg or cover.jpg.  I attached a screenshot showing my configuration.  There is really not a right or wrong more preference but I do like having consistent size of covers in my own library and have chosen 1000x1000 as a reasonable trade-off of quality/size for retina based iPad Pro viewing.

 

Cheers