ARIES vs mini... Confused

[miguelito]

Long shot - have you got both the Mini and the Aries plugged into well grounded power filtering? If so, try plugging or unplugging the Aries and see if the sound changes/improves.

mini doesn't have grounding per-se (two-wire power) but it is plugged currently in the same power strip (which is well grounded - double 14 gauge wire ground, solid copper) as ARIES. ARIES's linear supply does have grounding although I don't know if that ground is connected to the 0v lead in the 0v-16v of DC fed to ARIES.

[davide256]

Lets follow basic troubleshooting rules here.

 

Setup A: Mac mini source>USB > DAC sounds good

Setup B: Mac mini source >wifi >Aries> USB> DAC doesn't sound as good

 

Main differences are network use and the Aries in setup B; either the network is bad or the Aries has a problem. I'm assuming

that the media server on the mac is setup correctly but the symptoms don't sound like a transcoding issue, more like bad jitter.

 

Have you tried bypassing wifi by using Cat5e cables or better to connect the Mac and the Aries to your router and switch?

If so did the problem correct or remain?

 

Be aware that Wifi is susceptible to interference from many devices used in the home.

[miguelito]

Lets follow basic troubleshooting rules here.

 

Setup A: Mac mini source>USB > DAC sounds good

Setup B: Mac mini source >wifi >Aries> USB> DAC doesn't sound as good

 

Main differences are network use and the Aries in setup B; either the network is bad or the Aries has a problem.

Understood. This is how all these setups are done: a UPnP server (minimserver on the mini, I can also run it on my home office mac pro, identical library). No transcoding as there's no minimstreamer installed.

 

I'm assuming that the media server on the mac is setup correctly

I suppose it is. Copy speed from my office mac pro (where I encode/download all my files) to the mini's FW-attached HD is very fast (about 80MB/s last time I checked).

 

but the symptoms don't sound like a transcoding issue, more like bad jitter.

Ok.

 

Have you tried bypassing wifi by using Cat5e cables or better to connect the Mac and the Aries to your router and switch? If so did the problem correct or remain?

My home setup is all run on Cat6E (inside wall as well as all cables). Switch is Netgear gigabit 16 port. I seriously don't think there's a bandwidth issue here.

 

Be aware that Wifi is susceptible to interference from many devices used in the home.

I have tried wifi (2.4GHz and 5GHz, the latter with ARIES exclusively on that band) as well as cat6e ethernet across the board (ARIES to switch to mini with minimserver).

[miguelito]

Anyone in NYC who would like to come for a listen and call me crazy (or agree with me)?

[Distinctive]

Possibly, but I listen to live music often so I know what that sounds like, and that's what I want my system to be close to.

Fair enough, but let's assume for a moment that the Aries have a higher fidelity - in this case it can't be blamed for this, so I guess we need to sort this out first.

[miguelito]

Fair enough, but let's assume for a moment that the Aries have a higher fidelity - in this case it can't be blamed for this, so I guess we need to sort this out first.

Well, I don't understand your assumption - you are telling me ARIES must sound better than the mini? On paper I would agree - which is why I bought it. In practice it is another matter.

[jtwrace]

In practice it is another matter.

 

In your system though. I can't agree for myself.

[Distinctive]

Well, I don't understand your assumption - you are telling me ARIES must sound better than the mini? On paper I would agree - which is why I bought it. In practice it is another matter.

Well, since 99 out of 100 thinks so, at least we can't rule that out

I believe your observations are correct in your system, but I expect some external factors are causing it because your comparison is not pure apples vs apples.

Or it could be that the sound of the Aries is not to your taste. I believe the latest Aries firmware tightened things up a bit (maybe too much) so it might be that you would prefer the previous releases.

[YashN]

Well then suit yourself and hope you find something to your liking.

 

But if streaming from Mac to Mac is on par with the quality of the streaming of an Aries, I wouldn't get an Aries myself because I can already do that in my setup.

 

I'm comparing music reproduction. Also care about convenience (ie a good remote such as LDS). There are certain configs I am willing to consider and some not. This is a clear definition of the problem.

[miguelito]

In your system though. I can't agree for myself.

Sure of course.

[miguelito]

I believe your observations are correct in your system, but I expect some external factors are causing it because your comparison is not pure apples vs apples. Or it could be that the sound of the Aries is not to your taste. I believe the latest Aries firmware tightened things up a bit (maybe too much) so it might be that you would prefer the previous releases.

It is apples to apples in the sense that I am comparing sound reproduction. If I were to follow your rule you would say that I can't compare Berkeley's Alpha RS DAC to PS Audio Directstream b/c one is a PCM based product and the other one a DSD based one - which makes no sense - you're comparing DACs and you choose based on the sound (and sometimes features).

 

The intention of my original post is to try to understand if I am doing something wrong - many suggestions to this extent - some of which I will try and some of which are not of my personal interest.

 

More importantly, if ARIES just doesn't do it for me it's just out of my system. I have no intention to spend a long long time trying to make it work.

[Jimmypowder]

I could for laughs, but I am not interested in using the ARIES this way.

 

You are already predisposed to not liking it based on your comment .

 

You may want to stop playing mind games with yourself . ?

[miguelito]

You are already predisposed to not liking it based on your comment .

 

You may want to stop playing mind games with yourself . ?

 

Nonesense! I'd put it in the trash if I didn't care to get it to sound right in my system. There are some configs I am not interested in. Specifically on USB hd: how do you update the contents? Disconnect, connect to computer, reconnect? That bs. No interest.

[Jimmypowder]

Nonesense! I'd put it in the trash if I didn't care to get it to sound right in my system. There are some configs I am not interested in. Specifically on USB hd: how do you update the contents? Disconnect, connect to computer, reconnect? That bs. No interest.

 

I'll agree with you that the Aries and a Macmini with Amarra or Audirvana sound different . Sound quality preferences are subjective .

 

I don't detect any clarity differences between the two . None . I'll leave it at that .

 

Which do I prefer ? Hmmm . It depends on my mood ! Lol .???

[miguelito]

I'll agree with you that the Aries and a Macmini with Amarra or Audirvana sound different . Sound quality preferences are subjective .

Agree with this. I find Amarra, A+1.5.10+iTunes, and A+2.0.6 (A+ lib mode) to all be very close together and different from ARIES. Of the mac players I tend to prefer Amarra for PCM, but that's a slim difference. I myself at this point prefer the mini - regardless of my mood.

[ErikM]

I do find SPDIF sounds better. To compare USB cables I can just use the mini as reference. After all if it doesn't sound as good as the mini then it's out of the system.

 

Well if you find that SPDIF does sound better than why not have a great SPDIF cable for everything except DSD?

 

As for the USB comparison I'm not so sure that your methodology is correct. The USB cable that sounds the best in a comparison using the Mini as a source might not be the best sounding on the Aries..

 

Have you ever borrowed cables from the Cable Company? It would certainly be a good way to try out a variety of USB and SPDIF cables.

 

And I don't think that there's necessarily a problem in your Aries setup only because there's really not that much to setup beyond having a good power cord on the power supply and a good USB or SPDIF cable.. And one last thing I have noticed that the output from the Aries seems a bit lower that my W4S Sonos player..not much but a little.. at first listen I thought my Sonos might sound a little better than my Aries, until I noticed and compensated for it.

[miguelito]

Well if you find that SPDIF does sound better than why not have a great SPDIF cable for everything except DSD?

I don't find ARIES on SPDIF sounds better than mini on USB, so I'd rather simplify if I'm not getting much out of the ARIES.

 

As for the USB comparison I'm not so sure that your methodology is correct. The USB cable that sounds the best in a comparison using the Mini as a source might not be the best sounding on the Aries..

Agreed of course. I meant using the mini with one particular cable (the Lightspeed USB) as a reference point.

 

Have you ever borrowed cables from the Cable Company? It would certainly be a good way to try out a variety of USB and SPDIF cables.

Have not borrowed from them. What cables would you recommend?

 

And I don't think that there's necessarily a problem in your Aries setup only because there's really not that much to setup beyond having a good power cord on the power supply and a good USB or SPDIF cable.. And one last thing I have noticed that the output from the Aries seems a bit lower that my W4S Sonos player..not much but a little.. at first listen I thought my Sonos might sound a little better than my Aries, until I noticed and compensated for it.

Understood. But the diffs are much more noticeable than just a level difference. I've listened to a lot of components, cables, etc etc.

 

Anyone in NYC is welcome to come over for a listen and tell me I'm crazy.

[Jimmypowder]

I don't find ARIES on SPDIF sounds better than mini on USB, so I'd rather simplify if I'm not getting much out of the ARIES.

 

 

Agreed of course. I meant using the mini with one particular cable (the Lightspeed USB) as a reference point.

 

 

Have not borrowed from them. What cables would you recommend?

 

 

Understood. But the diffs are much more noticeable than just a level difference. I've listened to a lot of components, cables, etc etc.

 

Anyone in NYC is welcome to come over for a listen and tell me I'm crazy.

 

Would you say a Squeezebox Touch or Transporter sounds better fed in to the same dad as the Aries?

[miguelito]

Would you say a Squeezebox Touch or Transporter sounds better fed in to the same dad as the Aries?

 

I have no idea, I don't have any of those.

[jtwrace]

Haha! Are you waiting? I have a day job!

 

Yes, it's the weekend and given how many posts you've made today this could have been done already.

[Jimmypowder]

I have no idea, I don't have any of those.

I'll bet you can still hear the sound difference though.

5202.jpg

[miguelito]

I'll bet you can still hear the sound difference though.

5202.jpg

Have better things to do... Like listening to Moby's synthesizers...

[Jimmypowder]

Have better things to do... Like listening to Moby's synthesizers...

 

Have you listened to Moby's Dick ? Great audiobook if you have great ears ! ?

[miguelito]

Have you listened to Moby's Dick ? Great audiobook if you have great ears ! 

My 3yr niece makes smarter comments than that.

[davide256]

Miguelito, sounds like you have done everything a reasonable consumer could do before throwing it in the lap of the manufacturer.

 

Given the many other Mac users who tried Aries and found it better, I'd suspect you got a lemon. Ideally a last test would be to A/B vs an Aries

that has a happy owner for final confirmation but its probable you have no comparison options. I'd suggest contacting the factory to see if an exchange

can be worked out.