labjr Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Don't discount the micro iDSD (or nano iDSD) just because of the price especially when you haven't heard it. The same basic implementation will be used in the upcoming $1500 mini iDSD and then later in AMRs DP-777. They aren't investing all of this time and effort in the micro iDSD as a standalone product. They are going a little backwards in introducing their newest tech in the lower line products first, but then again perhaps that is a way to get all of the wrinkles ironed out before the more esoteric stuff get it. I'm not discounting the product because of the sound quality. Judging by the reviews, they're probably very good products. However, I'm questioning reason for the high sample rate DSD. Doesn't make sense to me. I don't see a problem with pointing that out. Link to comment
Paul R Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Having more features isn't really future-proofing if it's not well implemented. I can't imagine a $500 MSRP product has properly implemented DSD512 when it's doubtful that the technology exists at any price. I would take that bet on the iFi iDSD Micro. Don't let price fool you, pricing does not automatically equal high end, quality, or capability. -Paul Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
MikeJazz Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I would take that bet on the iFi iDSD Micro. Don't let price fool you, pricing does not automatically equal high end, quality, or capability. -Paul And we have seen reports by several people saying that it's much easier to decode dsd than pcm... http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/ funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671 Link to comment
john57 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Yes DSD is easier to decode since it is closer to a analog signal than PCM. One you strip away any headers like DoP the raw DSD signal beings to sound like music and then you remove all the high frequency noise with a filter and you have the final results. When you pass the PCM straight thru with the same filter you just get noise. Link to comment
labjr Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Still a data rate of 22 mb/s per channel is ridiculolus for audio. Link to comment
Paul R Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Still a data rate of 22 mb/s per channel is ridiculolus for audio. How do you mean? What do you think the "data rate" is for a live symphony concert? Hint- it is non-intuitive. Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
DZetye Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Sorry to stray a little off topic but what software for Macs takes full advantage of the IFI Micro DSD capabilities. I don't think my JRiver would be much help Link to comment
labjr Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 How do you mean? What do you think the "data rate" is for a live symphony concert? Hint- it is non-intuitive. It's way overkill. At 20khz it's more than a thousand samples per cycle. Link to comment
DM Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 It's way overkill. At 20khz it's more than a thousand samples per cycle. DSD is 1bit, whereas PCM is 16/24 bit. So the amount of information carried in a single sample is very different. In other words, DSD has higher sampling rate but carries less info in each sample; PCM has lower sampling rate but carries more info in each sample. Digital Sources: Optimised HP TouchSmart PC/CEC TL-1X CD Player/AMR DP-777 DAC/Theta Digital DS Pro Basic II (old) Analogue Sources:Koetsu Jade Platinum MC Cartridge/Tri-Planar arm/Kuzma Stabi Reference turntable/AMR PH-77 Phono Stage Amplifiers:The Gryphon Elektra Preamplifier/Convergent Audio Technology JL2 Signature Mk 2 Stereo Amplifier Speakers:Kharma Grand Ceramique Midi[br]Cables:Nordost Valhalla (interconnect and speaker cables)/Shunyata Research power Snakes power cables Portable: Sony PHA-1/PHA-2; Dragonfly 1.0/1.2; Meridian Explorer, Director; iFi nano iDSD, micro iDAC, micro iDSD; Geek Out; Hdta Serenade DSD Link to comment
wisnon Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 It's way overkill. At 20khz it's more than a thousand samples per cycle. DSD is bit stream, not really sample packets. Link to comment
wisnon Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Sorry to stray a little off topic but what software for Macs takes full advantage of the IFI Micro DSD capabilities. I don't think my JRiver would be much help HQ Player seems best. There is a free beta version (v7) now for Mac out. Go to his facebook page. Link to comment
labjr Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 DSD is bit stream, not really sample packets. Whatever! DSD64 2.8mhz sample rate already captures transients better than PCM. Basically the remaining issue was noise. Increasing overhead and data storage needs by 8x is unnecessary for that. One album would use as much storage as a BluRay high definition movie. Link to comment
Ned Kelly Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Don't discount the micro iDSD (or nano iDSD) just because of the price especially when you haven't heard it. The same basic implementation will be used in the upcoming $1500 mini iDSD and then later in AMRs DP-777. They aren't investing all of this time and effort in the micro iDSD as a standalone product. They are going a little backwards in introducing their newest tech in the lower line products first, but then again perhaps that is a way to get all of the wrinkles ironed out before the more esoteric stuff get it. Based on what I'm hearing with the Nano, I look forward to the release of the mini. Not sure that iFi's approach is terribly unique - Marantz and CA both dipped their toes in the network streamer market before releasing their more expensive offerings - it makes a lot more sense to do it that way IMO. Just one more headphone and I know I can kick this nasty little habit ! Link to comment
wisnon Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Whatever! DSD64 2.8mhz sample rate already captures transients better than PCM. Basically the remaining issue was noise. Increasing overhead and data storage needs by 8x is unnecessary for that. One album would use as much storage as a BluRay high definition movie. Storage is cheap and to many DSD sounds better. In any case, its the only form of hirez we have. Link to comment
Kelly Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Based on what I'm hearing with the Nano, I look forward to the release of the mini. Not sure that iFi's approach is terribly unique - Marantz and CA both dipped their toes in the network streamer market before releasing their more expensive offerings - it makes a lot more sense to do it that way IMO. I definitely agree with you that it makes sense. I'm also a case study in it hooking new customers to their brand. I'm on hte hunt for a new dac, it may be the mini iDSD, but it also may end up being an AMR DP-777... Roon ->UltraRendu + CI Audio 7v LPS-> Kii Control -> Kii Three Roon->BMC UltraDAC->Mr Speakers Aeon Flow Open Link to comment
dtb300 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Have you tried converting PCM to DSD 256 with JRiver 19 ? Would be interested to know how converted PCM >DSD256 compares to your Wadia 121 ? After some substantial listening with the iDSD DAC. The iDSD DAC is a very nice sounding DAC especially for the cost. Over time I preferred the iFi when upsampling music to DSD either 2xDSD or 4xDSD compared to upsampling to 176 or 192, or even native bitrates. I was also using a Cardas Clear USB to the iFi USB Power and the iFi Gemini Dual Head USB Cable to the iFi DSD DAC. All of this was with JRMC 19 On another note, I just picked up a Schitt Decrapifier and compared it to the iFi USB Power. The Shitt had fuller bass, but not boomy, and retrieved more details from the music than the iFi. So I will keep the Schitt as my USB clean up device. The Schitt also reclocks the signal before sending it on. Again this is based on my listening tests in my rig. I got the Wadia back from my friend and inserted into the system with the Schitt. USB Cables were Cardas Clear USB from computer to Schitt and Cardas Clear to Wadia. After some more extensive listening, I prefer the Schitt/Wadia 121 over the iFi setup for my listening tests and of course in my rig. If I did not own the Wadia I would have been very happy with the iFi as it is a great system of components. But over the years I have always been a Wadia fan and their house sound, so maybe that also played a part in my decision. To me Wadia just does digital right. BTW, I run W2012R2, Phils AO, JPlay and JRMC 19 with JPS Labs SC3 Interconnects to my CJ Pre for my computer playback. I will probably end up selling my iFi suite of products USB, iDSD, iRack, Gemini DTB Rig: https://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/9648.html Link to comment
john57 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 By the way IFI released new firmware for the iDSD micro. Micro iDSD – iFi XMOS Firmware | iFi Audio Link to comment
macuniverse Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 By the way IFI released new firmware for the iDSD micro. Micro iDSD – iFi XMOS Firmware | iFi Audio Thanks for the link. I just updated the FW and it seems to be working OK. Link to comment
Liam Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 iFi confirming the benefits of their crowd design of the Micro iDSD. LOUNGE:- Qobuz Studio>TP-Link RE650 WI-FI Extender>AfterDark Ethernet Cable>EtherREGEN/Farad Super3 PSU/Furutech AC input/Level2 DC cable/SR Purple fuse>AfterDark Ethernet Cable(1/2 Metre)>Lumin U1 Mini Streamer/LEEDH volume/External PliXiR BDC Elite 12v/4amp PSU>Oyaide DB-510 bnc-bnc Digital cable>MHDT Orchid Dac>Townshend DCT300 Interconnects>Airtight AMT-1S Amp>Townshend Isolda EDCT Speaker Cables>Speakers Revival Atalante 3. LIVING ROOM:-Qobuz Studio>Bluesound Node2i (streamer only)>Oyaide DB-510 bnc-bnc Digital Cable>iFi Retro 50 Dac-Amp>iFi LS3.5 Speakers. Various tweaks in both systems - tubes, footers, grounding, Shakti devices, Nordost QK1, Furutech fuses, resonance generators. Link to comment
dmormerod Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 HQ Player seems best. There is a free beta version (v7) now for Mac out. Go to his facebook page. Who's Facebook page?? Thanks! [br]QNAP+ -> Allo DigiOne Signature -> RequisiteAudio D3rs -> McIntosh C52 -> McIntosh MC-275 MK VI -> Harbeth 30.1's via Roon Link to comment
wisnon Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Signalyst https://www.facebook.com/search/more?q=gpointaudio#!/pages/HQPlayer/165263336831802 Link to comment
dmormerod Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Signalyst https://www.facebook.com/search/more?q=gpointaudio#!/pages/HQPlayer/165263336831802 Thanks I did actually figure it out after looking at a few other threads. I downloaded the HQPlayer last night, but seem to have issues with it not adding some DSD files, so I need to play more. [br]QNAP+ -> Allo DigiOne Signature -> RequisiteAudio D3rs -> McIntosh C52 -> McIntosh MC-275 MK VI -> Harbeth 30.1's via Roon Link to comment
dmormerod Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 By the way IFI released new firmware for the iDSD micro. Micro iDSD – iFi XMOS Firmware | iFi Audio Any idea how to tell what version of firmware is currently on the device? [br]QNAP+ -> Allo DigiOne Signature -> RequisiteAudio D3rs -> McIntosh C52 -> McIntosh MC-275 MK VI -> Harbeth 30.1's via Roon Link to comment
PhVL Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Go to about this Mac - Click on system overview - Usb and look up where your dac is connected. There you can find the firmware version. Synology DS 1513 + Room 1: Mac Mini (Yosemite) --- Nagra HD Dac --- Nagra Jazz --- 2x Devialet 400 --- Sonus Faber Olympica III Office: Mac Mini --- Meridan 818 V2 --- Vincent SA 93 Plus --- 2x Vincent SP 995 --- Audio Physics Tempo 25 Plus Car Hifi: Burmester Sound System Link to comment
dmormerod Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Go to about this Mac - Click on system overview - Usb and look up where your dac is connected. There you can find the firmware version. Thanks [br]QNAP+ -> Allo DigiOne Signature -> RequisiteAudio D3rs -> McIntosh C52 -> McIntosh MC-275 MK VI -> Harbeth 30.1's via Roon Link to comment
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