HQ Player

[rickca]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

Holo Spring DSD DAC section is also a filter. These mixed domain conversion filters shouldn't be mixed with oversampling filters.

Can you explain what you're calling a 'mixed domain conversion filter'?  Are you saying HQPlayer and Holo Spring DSD are not a good combination, or am I misinterpreting?  Thanks, I'd like to understand this.

[Miska]

15 minutes ago, rickca said:

Can you explain what you're calling a 'mixed domain conversion filter'?  Are you saying HQPlayer and Holo Spring DSD are not a good combination, or am I misinterpreting?  Thanks, I'd like to understand this.

 

Mixed domain means that it is on the edge of digital and analog domains. Input is digital, output is analog. The D/A conversion itself operates as a filter. This helps removing the ultrasonic noise of SDM type converters with the subsequent purely analog filter.

 

My DSC1 DAC design is example of such, it combines analog/mixed-domain linear phase FIR filter with 4th order purely analog filter.

 

DACs based on SCF output stage have similar goals but different kind of implementation.

 

So, yes of course Holo Spring is a good combination with HQPlayer.

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, JTS said:

Thanks for your response. I am trying to wrap my head around how DSD Direct with the AKM works. I am thinking of picking up a D90 for another system. Apparently their DSDD also goes straight to the analog filter, as it does in the RME, when the unit is in DAC mode.

 

It works the same way as with the on-chip modulator's output. So there's a switch selecting which input to use. Conversion stage itself is a filter, followed by another analog filter outside of the chip. Since the separate analog filter outside of the chip is typically something like 2nd order filter, the on-chip mixed domain conversion filter helps it in the reconstruction task.

 

[JTS]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

Conversion stage itself is a filter

 

So sending DSD to a DSD Direct enabled chip completely bypasses the chip modulators and sends the DSD stream straight to the conversion stage? When using HQPlayer, the upressed and modulated DSD stream is not remodulated or reshaped by the chip at all?

[Miska]

7 hours ago, JTS said:

So sending DSD to a DSD Direct enabled chip completely bypasses the chip modulators and sends the DSD stream straight to the conversion stage? When using HQPlayer, the upressed and modulated DSD stream is not remodulated or reshaped by the chip at all?

 

Yes, that's the idea of the direct mode.

 

If not counting TI chips that have always been direct-only, first one to introduce such was Cirrus Logic's CS4398 quite long ago, but it is only capable of DSD128. That one is nowadays used in Korg and TASCAM DSD recorders and for example Marantz HD-DAC1. Then Wolfson (now owned by Cirrus Logic) followed with their WM8741/WM8742 which are DSD64 only. AKM followed recently with switchable mode as well. Could be that some of the earlier AKM models were direct-only, for example the one used in Schiit Loki DSD-only DAC.

 

[JTS]

Thanks for the great information, @Miska. I now better understand why I like the sound of my RME in DSD direct mode and what I would look for in a future DAC.

 

I am actually in the process of looking for a DAC right now for another (budget) system.

 

I am toying with the idea of a topping D90 as it uses the new AKM chip, and seems to be well reviewed. I have yet to hear about anyone using it with HQPlayer, though.

 

If you or anyone on the list might know of DACs in the $600ish price range that have a DSD Direct mode and are not currently on the HQPlayer "recommended hardware" list, let me know. I would be looking for something with, at min, 2 optical or S/Pdif ins and a USB in. It'll be used in a single ended system.

[ericuco]

15 minutes ago, JTS said:

If you or anyone on the list might know of DACs in the $600ish price range that have a DSD Direct mode and are not currently on the HQPlayer "recommended hardware" list, let me know. I would be looking for something with, at min, 2 optical or S/Pdif ins and a USB in. It'll be used in a single ended system.

 
The Holo Cyan has a DSD only version. It is priced more than your budget but worth considering.

 

One issue with the Cyan is that it does not work with 48x (48, 96, 192) files. That means that HQP has to convert 48x material to 44.1x which eats up processing power on the server. I know we are talking DSD here so DSD256 works at 11.2896 MHz but not 12.288 MHz.

[Yviena]

Hmm seems that the topping D90 does playback 48Khz DSD correctly but first you need to start a track with 11.88Mhz DSD, then switch the sample rate to 48Khz DSD256, the topping will still display 11.88Mhz being received, but HQplayer will be sending 12.288Mhz, if you try to immediately send 48khz DSD when first opening HQPlayer it won't work, quite possible this is a firmware & display issue in the D90 as when doing the above steps 48khz DSD seems to playback correctly.

[JTS]

On 2/16/2020 at 2:28 PM, Yviena said:

The newest topping one has DSD filter switching implemented, along with the DSD direct mode in DAC mode.

 

Newest revision adi2 with AKM 4493 still has the 50/150khz filters I believe.

 

I am assuming you have the D90 based on your notes about it.

 

If so, is there an explicit switch for DSDD or does the D90 automatically implement DSDD when it is in DAC mode? Is there any indicator that lets you know you're in DSDD?

 

I am also curious if you also have the RME? If so, do you have a sense of how they compare to each other? Does the D90 operate as well as the RME does with HQPlayer? I have a ADI-2 DAC fs at work which I love and serves as my reference point now.

[Miska]

4 hours ago, Yviena said:

Hmm seems that the topping D90 does playback 48Khz DSD correctly but first you need to start a track with 11.88Mhz DSD, then switch the sample rate to 48Khz DSD256, the topping will still display 11.88Mhz being received, but HQplayer will be sending 12.288Mhz, if you try to immediately send 48khz DSD when first opening HQPlayer it won't work, quite possible this is a firmware & display issue in the D90 as when doing the above steps 48khz DSD seems to playback correctly.

 

You also need to check that the rate/frequency is actually correct. For example Spring 1 seemingly plays 48k-base DSD rates, but using 44.1k clock - so too slow.

 

So you could be still getting playback at 44.1k clock.

 

[Yviena]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

You also need to check that the rate/frequency is actually correct. For example Spring 1 seemingly plays 48k-base DSD rates, but using 44.1k clock - so too slow.

 

So you could be still getting playback at 44.1k clock.

 

It doesn't sound slowed down or speed up so I assume it's actually using correct clocks, unless the difference is not perceivable.

 

2 hours ago, JTS said:

 

I am assuming you have the D90 based on your notes about it.

 

If so, is there an explicit switch for DSDD or does the D90 automatically implement DSDD when it is in DAC mode? Is there any indicator that lets you know you're in DSDD?

 

I am also curious if you also have the RME? If so, do you have a sense of how they compare to each other? Does the D90 operate as well as the RME does with HQPlayer? I have a ADI-2 DAC fs at work which I love and serves as my reference point now.

Yeah I sold my matrix sabre pro for the D90 as a review site soundnews compared the D90 to the matrix element X, and said the sound was very close but that the D90 had better soundstage/layering when run via USB, and I wanted the Direct DSD path functionality for HQplayer, it's kind of nice that now a DAC that costs around 600$ is actually beating something for over 2000$, and the reviewer guy is correct that this DAC does soundstage/layering better with detail being comparable as I can clearly hear kind of more ambience/deeper into the recording  with my HD800, but I think I have reached the limits of soundstage reproduction at least for headphones.

 

It doesn't have any indicator that it's in DSDD mode but I've been told by their customer service/engineers that it's automatically in that mode when DAC is set to DAC MODE, and DSD is sent.

 

HQplayer also works perfectly with this dac no glitches etc that I can hear.

[Miska]

44 minutes ago, Yviena said:

It doesn't sound slowed down or speed up so I assume it's actually using correct clocks, unless the difference is not perceivable.

 

If you have some basic ADC you can check with 1 kHz tone for example if it is reproduced at correct frequency. Doesn't need to be a fancy sound card for that, probably motherboard audio on a regular PC or Mac is enough for the purpose.

 

 

[bipet]

I noticed today that the dial in the main screen was red when playing, presumbly due to clipping. I have included my settings below.

 

When I am in the main screen (e.g. not showing my settings), I cannot click on the dial to change the volume, although I am sure I was able to previously. I am sure I am missing a setting somewhere, what am I missing? How do I change the dial in the main screen?

 

[bipet]

Got it - I had DirectSDM checked, if I un-check, I get volume control back.

[Miska]

When DirectSDM is enabled, volume control is fixed to about -3 dBFS. For safety reasons to avoid sudden volume changes when switching between DSD and PCM content.

 

[dctom]

 

How do I stream radio or Tidal through HQP?

This has probably been covered somewhere else - I have searched with out success, meaning everything seems to involve roon which I dont use.

[Miska]

1 hour ago, dctom said:

How do I stream radio or Tidal through HQP?

This has probably been covered somewhere else - I have searched with out success, meaning everything seems to involve roon which I dont use.

 

With HQPlayer Embedded you can also use UPnP through something like mConnect Player or BubbleUPnP on a mobile device.

 

In addition you can use inputs from digital and analog sources, also on HQPlayer Desktop.

 

[Altabay]

My apology if this was discussed before, but is it possible to change HQPlayer volume in 0.5dB steps?  Currently it seems to allow 1dB steps only, and depending on the tracks I sometimes wish a half step change was possible.  I don't think a smaller step would be necessary.  And would Roon allow half step changes if HQPlayer supported it?

[Miska]

4 minutes ago, Altabay said:

My apology if this was discussed before, but is it possible to change HQPlayer volume in 0.5dB steps?  Currently it seems to allow 1dB steps only, and depending on the tracks I sometimes wish a half step change was possible.  I don't think a smaller step would be necessary.  And would Roon allow half step changes if HQPlayer supported it?

 

HQPlayer doesn't have a specific step size except in the GUI. So from the remote control interface like Roon or something else you can control volume to almost as fine precision you want.

 

If people think it is necessary, I could add .5 dB steps to the HQPlayer Client.

 

[Altabay]

58 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

HQPlayer doesn't have a specific step size except in the GUI. So from the remote control interface like Roon or something else you can control volume to almost as fine precision you want.

 

If people think it is necessary, I could add .5 dB steps to the HQPlayer Client.

 

 

Yes, it seems to be a GUI behavior only.  I tested with HQPlayer Desktop 4.3.1 for Windows.  Adding 5 dB steps would be really nice, and I hope other users agree.

 

Roon UI is also limiting the adjustments to 1dB steps.  Is it a limitation in Roon or is it somehow discovering HQPlayer is only allowing 1dB increments?

[Miska]

1 hour ago, Altabay said:

Roon UI is also limiting the adjustments to 1dB steps.  Is it a limitation in Roon or is it somehow discovering HQPlayer is only allowing 1dB increments?

 

No, that's a Roon feature. The way Roon does adjustment doesn't practically have any increments.

 

[3ggerhappy]

Hello can anyone point me how to install hqplayer os directly in the internal hardisk.   I was only able to boot it through the usb using the image. Is there a guide out there?

[dctom]

11 hours ago, Miska said:

 

With HQPlayer Embedded you can also use UPnP through something like mConnect Player or BubbleUPnP on a mobile device.

 

In addition you can use inputs from digital and analog sources, also on HQPlayer Desktop.

 

 

I have a licence for HQP 4 desktop, do I need a separate licence for embedded? how do I stream using desktop hqp 4 please?

[Miska]

50 minutes ago, dctom said:

I have a licence for HQP 4 desktop, do I need a separate licence for embedded? how do I stream using desktop hqp 4 please?

 

Yes, it is a separate product.

 

50 minutes ago, dctom said:

how do I stream using desktop hqp 4 please?

 

Choices are either using Roon, or digital inputs from an external device. Note that all forms of digital inputs don't support automatic switching of input sample rate. Most of the time lack of automatic switching is not an issue though.

 

[craighartley]

12 hours ago, Miska said:

 

With HQPlayer Embedded you can also use UPnP through something like mConnect Player or BubbleUPnP on a mobile device.

 

In addition you can use inputs from digital and analog sources, also on HQPlayer Desktop.

 

How do I use Embedded with MConnect? What do I need to select in HQPlayer Input?