HQ Player

[ted_b]

To add to my !2S vs USB  comment above, what I can remember is that the sq improvements using HQPlayer going through the Singxer centered around microdynamics, clarity and noise floor, not attributes of added euphony or bloominess often associated with "good" distortion.  My $.02

[Miska]

2 hours ago, ted_b said:

To add to my !2S vs USB  comment above, what I can remember is that the sq improvements using HQPlayer going through the Singxer centered around microdynamics, clarity and noise floor, not attributes of added euphony or bloominess often associated with "good" distortion.  My $.02

 

While it seems to mostly just increase the noise floor, discussed here:

 

One problem of I2S over HDMI is that the clock is on wrong side. It should be at the DAC side. Since the clock is on wrong side, the I2S link cannot be galvanically isolated without adverse effects because it would deteriorate the clock.

 

4 hours ago, ted_b said:

Btw this was with the Holo’s first stock USB interface, nothing upgraded at that time.

 

I have Spring 1 with the older USB interface, here are the comparisons between Spring 1 (old interface) and Spring 2 (new interface):

 

So the older one was very good already with clean noise floor and good clock, while Spring 2 has even better clocks.

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, DancingSea said:

This may be DAC dependent.  DirectStream Dacs seem to have an affinity for I2S.  There’s a massive thread on the PSA forums where many many DS owners have seen improvements by using a Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 to convert usb to I2S.  

 

Probably it is. But would be interesting to study further the effects by objective means. At least it cannot be generalized that it would improve objective performance.

 

My only DACs with I2S input are Holo Audio ones, and given their stock performance I have not felt need to add extra boxes. And for Spring 2 it would also remove 1.5 MHz PCM and DSD1024 capability...

 

[Yviena]

6 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Probably it is. But would be interesting to study further the effects by objective means. At least it cannot be generalized that it would improve objective performance.

 

My only DACs with I2S input are Holo Audio ones, and given their stock performance I have not felt need to add extra boxes. And for Spring 2 it would also remove 1.5 MHz PCM and DSD1024 capability...

 

There's probably something not being measured, that gives better SQ even if objective performance suffers, like disabling the sabre ASRC, and it's DPLL jitter reducer.

 

With the ESS 9038PRO I don't think it converts DSD anymore to PCM for volume, if volume control is set to disabled, and ASRC/jitter circuit is also disabled, 

[Account Closed]

6 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Probably it is. But would be interesting to study further the effects by objective means. At least it cannot be generalized that it would improve objective performance.

 

My only DACs with I2S input are Holo Audio ones, and given their stock performance I have not felt need to add extra boxes. And for Spring 2 it would also remove 1.5 MHz PCM and DSD1024 capability...

 

My Spring 2 definitely sounds better using the USB input (but only after the firmware update) than it did using the I2S via HDMI input. I put my SU-1 to use in my bedroom system and put my fancy silver HDMI cable in my video system. Before the firmware update it was close but after USB wins.

[Yviena]

2 minutes ago, bobflood said:

My Spring 2 definitely sounds better using the USB input (but only after the firmware update) than it did using the I2S via HDMI input. I put my SU-1 to use in my bedroom system and put my fancy silver HDMI cable in my video system. Before the firmware update it was close but after USB wins.

It would be interesting to measure the spring DAC before, and after firmware update too see if there are any correlations.

[Miska]

12 minutes ago, Yviena said:

There's probably something not being measured, that gives better SQ even if objective performance suffers, like disabling the sabre ASRC, and it's DPLL jitter reducer.

 

Actually the old Mytek that is synchronously clocked (no ASRC/DPLL, but instead separate 22.5792 and 24.576 MHz clocks) doesn't have the wandering noise humps of newer ones that run from single 100 MHz clock. Could be also one reason it still sounds pretty good.

 

Also in the newer ones tend to have wandering distortion. For example if you keep playing IMD test signal and keep staring the 1 kHz and 2 kHz difference tones, you can see that it varies quite a bit over couple of minutes time.

 

I think this depends on where on it's cycle the ASRC/DPLL happens to be going.

 

17 minutes ago, Yviena said:

With the ESS 9038PRO I don't think it converts DSD anymore to PCM for volume, if volume control is set to disabled, and ASRC/jitter circuit is also disabled,

 

At least 9038Q2M has regular volume control for DSD, Pro-Ject S2D being an example. And AFAIK, only way to "disable" volume control on Sabre is to just set it to 0 dBFS (what I remember from it's datasheet register tables). Both 9038's have the same specs when it comes to DSP.

 

As long as it runs from single 100 MHz clock, it cannot have the "ASRC" (which is not really ASRC) / DPLL disabled, otherwise it wouldn't have conversion clock...

 

The way the "ASRC" works is that they (virtually) generate enough many samples, so they can go and decide which one of they pick that actually go out and rest are thrown away. This probably causes the wandering distortion behavior, because the amount of error the output value has varies over time.

 

[Holzohr]

11 hours ago, DancingSea said:

There’s a massive thread on the PSA forums where many many DS owners have seen improvements by using a Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 to convert usb to I2S.  

 

I too bought a Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 when I had my DS DAC. I liked that it can "convert" DoP to native DSD. The biggest surprise - soundwise - gave me a Pi3 / HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro / Audio-GD I2S-to-HDMI modul diy-solution with the PiCorePlayer and later RoPieee.

 

When I sold the DS DAC I also sold the X-SPDIF 2 just to buy another one after I bought a Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro (MQA). With the X-Sabre Pro in synchronous mode the X-SPDIF 2 is the "master" (after turning on the MCLK dip) when connected via I2S. I am still not sure if that does bring something. Sometimes I think oh yes, sometimes hmmm... What I am sure about is the good quality of the USB interface of the DAC. I like to listen via USB very much. Maybe I have to spend the X-SPDIF 2 a good power supply.

[Miska]

30 minutes ago, Yviena said:

It would be interesting to measure the spring DAC before, and after firmware update too see if there are any correlations.

 

My measurements of Spring 2 in the Spring thread are from the "old" original firmware. Spring 1 having the old USB interface cannot be updated. So I've only updated Spring 2 and Cyan DSD, but I have not made more measurements. I can try to check again at some point when I find time...

 

[Yviena]

52 minutes ago, Holzohr said:

 

I too bought a Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 when I had my DS DAC. I liked that it can "convert" DoP to native DSD. The biggest surprise - soundwise - gave me a Pi3 / HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro / Audio-GD I2S-to-HDMI modul diy-solution with the PiCorePlayer and later RoPieee.

 

When I sold the DS DAC I also sold the X-SPDIF 2 just to buy another one after I bought a Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro (MQA). With the X-Sabre Pro in synchronous mode the X-SPDIF 2 is the "master" (after turning on the MCLK dip) when connected via I2S. I am still not sure if that does bring something. Sometimes I think oh yes, sometimes hmmm... What I am sure about is the good quality of the USB interface of the DAC. I like to listen via USB very much. Maybe I have to spend the X-SPDIF 2 a good power supply.

Do you find the sound from the xspdif-2 to be better, or comparable to straight USB input?

[Holzohr]

22 minutes ago, Yviena said:

Do you find the sound from the xspdif-2 to be better, or comparable to straight USB input?

 

Not that easy to answer. I "think" the X-SPDIF 2 is not really necessary when you have one (computer) source only. USB does a great job and I have the feeling the sound via the X-SPDIF 2 is not really better than via USB input of the X-Sabre Pro (MQA). But I should mention that I (still) don't use an external ps for the X-SPDIF 2. It uses the 5V via USB cable. 

 

Also I have maybe too many variables here to make a serious comparison. I use a Element H that for some reason seems to "work" only on Windows, soundwise. The card never could convince me on Linux. No matter if with Audiolinux or Euphony. One reason could be that these both Linux versions give realtime priority to USB in general. That means to the USB ports from the mainboard. Not to the irq the PCIe cards are using. Well, I am no expert.

 

I still have a NUC7CJYH as endpoint in use. I could try to make a comparison with its two rear USB ports. From one straight to the USB input and from the other one via X-SPDIF 2 to the I2S input of the X-Sabre Pro.

 

 

[LoryWiv]

20 hours ago, ted_b said:

Although my system is still down from the move I have documented profusely on this site (esp Holo dac review) that I, also, found going through the Singxer to be a big improvement sonically. Maybe I like distortion but I don’t think so 😀. It must be something we aren’t measuring?  Dunno. Btw this was with the Holo’s first stock USB interface, nothing upgraded at that time. 

Fully agree, adding Singxer SU-1 and connecting I2S to DAC made an improvement in "blackness" of background, detail, overall tonality. I don't think I'd ever go back to direct USB to DAC. I realize, however, improvements in and differing USB interfaces may have a bearing on results.

[DancingSea]

8 hours ago, Holzohr said:

But I should mention that I (still) don't use an external ps for the X-SPDIF 2. It uses the 5V via USB cable. 

 

A good power supply makes a marked improvement over USB power.

[Yviena]

2 hours ago, DancingSea said:

 

A good power supply makes a marked improvement over USB power.

It depends ASR actually measured it, and it objectively performs worse due to additional ground path/60hz mains hum.

[Miska]

DAC-UP ports on Gigabyte motherboards give pretty clean USB power (designed to do so)... But another way to deal with it is suitable NAA.

 

[luisma]

This may have been asked before is there any way in HQPlayer to invert the phase? Like reversing the polarity on the speaker same effect

[Miska]

1 minute ago, luisma said:

This may have been asked before is there any way in HQPlayer to invert the phase? Like reversing the polarity on the speaker same effect

 

Yes, there is a toolbar button "Inv" for that (not yet in the Client though). It is also accessible through the remote control API.

 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

2 minutes ago, luisma said:

This may have been asked before is there any way in HQPlayer to invert the phase? Like reversing the polarity on the speaker same effect

JUST press/click the invert button

[luisma]

I know it may seem obvious but I don't see such an option

config.pdf

[ray-dude]

It is a HQPlayer Desktop option (on the tool bar at the top of the window), but I.  When I exported setting from HQP Desktop, I didn't see anything obvious in the XML for inversion (HQPe settings XML doesn't have anything obvious either).  It may be a playback software option rather than a HQP engine option?

[Miska]

16 minutes ago, luisma said:

I know it may seem obvious but I don't see such an option

config.pdf 24 kB · 3 downloads

 

[Miska]

4 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

It is a HQPlayer Desktop option (on the tool bar at the top of the window), but I.  When I exported setting from HQP Desktop, I didn't see anything obvious in the XML for inversion (HQPe settings XML doesn't have anything obvious either).  It may be a playback software option rather than a HQP engine option?

 

It is option in HQPlayer engine, goes together with volume control. But it is not related to configuration.

 

Btw, what you mean by "playback software rather than HQP engine"?

 

[luisma]

3 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

It is a HQPlayer Desktop option (on the tool bar at the top of the window), but I.  When I exported setting from HQP Desktop, I didn't see anything obvious in the XML for inversion (HQPe settings XML doesn't have anything obvious either).  It may be a playback software option rather than a HQP engine option?

Thank you

[ray-dude]

24 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

It is option in HQPlayer engine, goes together with volume control. But it is not related to configuration.

 

 

Thank you @Miska.  

 

I've been doing a lot of reading this week trying to grok the various settings and configuration options and have some questions I haven't been able to find answers to.  

 

• In the configuration XML, out of curiosity what do "fft_size" and "dualwire" impact?  
• To completely disable volume control in HQPe, I'm setting volume_max, volume_limit, and volume_min to "0".  Is this the right way to do so?

 

More generally to the broader group, I'm using a Chord DAVE for my DAC (PCM biased), and was hoping to tap into the experience of other Chord owners.

• Is there a consensus best filter for SDM to PCM conversion for Chord DACs? (running on i7 NUC)  
• For Chord owners out there, do you find that you prefer the native DSD pathway in the DAC (presumably with DSD to DSD upsampling), or better to convert to PCM and pass 16fs upsampled PCM to the DAC?
• DAVE supports 32 bit PCM, so better to feed it 32 bit or 24 bit? (not sure if it prefers 24 bit internally)

As I come to a preferred configuration with Chord DACs, I will be sure to write up my learnings and findings (quite the journey to navigate 650+ pages of contributions!)

 

Thank you to everyone that has been sharing their HQP journey and insights here (and to @Miska for an incredible piece of software).  Fantastic resource, and I've learned a heck of a lot.

 

[Account Closed]

Hi Jussi,

 

I have a question. I can't seem to get HQP to work at 1.536 PCM with my Spring 2. The Spring 2 shows 1.536 but the sound is garbled. When I look at the Windows Task Manager (Windows 10/64/1909) I am only seeing 65 Mbps output to the Spring 2 (should be 98 Mbps). It works fine at 768 PCM (showing 49 Mbps output). I am using a Sonore ultraRendu running the NAA. I have no problem with DSD 512 (using the right filter/modulator combo) or DSD 256. Any ideas?